I can't believe how much crap I had to take around here for criticizing Edwards...

my wife and I always had the gut feeling he was a big fake.

I had a 5,000+ response thread of a torch and pitchfork mob against me for criticizing his lack of conviction and forthrightness. At least now people can once and for all see the emperor has no clothes and the pied piper is a charlatan.

And for those that say, "his personal life..." blah blah blah. It's one thing to cheat on your wife, it's another to cheat on her when you are running for President, poised to bring the rest of the Party down with your charade. And the fact that he cheated on his wife who had friggin' cancer is just beyond any shred of decency.

Congratulations.

Um - your wife? You know, the one fighting cancer so valiantly, and her ordeal is public because she's a public figure herself, and even political opponents respect and salute her? Yeah, that one. You are an absolute WEENER.

Hey, people are gonna have all kinds of really extreme feelings about this. Isn't that to be expected? I mean, this is rawther colossal news. Chuck Todd just pointed out on MSNBC that the thing about the Edwards family is that their family was part of their political identity. Their family tragedy over their son, and Elizabeth's first bout with cancer - that we all once thought was conquered, it was part of their story. They spoke from the heart and shared their sorrows as well as their triumphs, and they've been justifiably loved for that. They were extremely sympathetic figures - all of them, charming, young, and charismatic. They were all good-looking people, too, so on a really superficial level they made for great visuals, ie: a good TV story or print/glossy magazine story.

On a strictly-business level, it might be better just to get on with it and swallow the bitter medicine in as close to one gulp as possible. It's all breaking on a Friday afternoon. Friday-Night News Dump. Yes, kids, it can work for Democrats, too. It's not just any Friday, either. It's kick-off day for the Olympics. There's been so much politics everywhere I think people were already sick of it and might be eager for such a compelling and polar-opposite change of subject as the Olympic Games. "And now for something completely different," for real. GOOD. "And it's the weekend. Fuck it. Sick of this shit. Time for something else. Who's playing this weekend? Hey! Olympics are on - what is it? NBC? Cool! Let's watch that." Yes it's titillating. That's what most of these assholes like to obsess upon. Tiresome and juvenile, isn't it? It's about sex, so it'll sell. Hopefully they'll obsess for awhile and then somebody, maybe some sinewy little nymph will capture the imagination of the country and the world from the balance beam or the floor exercises and it'll be - oh yeah, THAT. By then, a couple of weeks give-or-take will have passed and hopefully a lot of other things will have happened and people will have been distracted. And we're still in hurricane season. So we batten down the hatches then and make sure the storm windows are up.

A lot depends on how John Edwards handles it from here. How he speaks, what he says, how flatly and painfully honest he is, how much humility, candor, penitence, and contrition he shows, will have something to do with how quickly (or not) this fades. The statement I just heard Mike Barnicle read on Hardball is pretty good. But he's gonna have to wear sack cloth and ashes for a long time. We know politicians have feet of clay. But we wanted him to be an exception. Him especially. Funny, I heard this today on TV by someone who surprisingly pointed out how he had taken such a public stand on the issue of poverty, made that one of the central issues of his campaign, and how that was now dealt a blow also.

The problem longterm goes beyond the loss of John Edwards as a viable top-tier player on our time. He's still a player, but his stock just dropped through the basement. He went directly to jail without passing GO or collecting 200 dollars. Now he's just another attractive, charming, brilliant big-name Dem who couldn't keep his pants zipped while his public-figure wife stands by, publicly humiliated. But strictly in a political sense, it hurts us as a party because it kills one of the points we could rub in on the enemy. THEY'VE been the party of scandal. larry craig, david vitter, mark foley - all those lovely people and more - are ALL THEIRS. THEIR poster-children. Now this, on our side. I'm sure most of us figured we'd filled our quota with Bill Clinton, and maybe to a lesser extent Eliot Spitzer and Jim McGreevey. Now the republi-CONS can point at us and say - "oh YEAH? How's that nice glass house of yours?" Really robs us of one of the weapons in our arsenal.

DAMMIT ALL.

All we can do is talk about it honestly, especially when people, friends, coworkers, neighbors, family members will bring it up, especially if they're on the other end of the political spectrum and feel like crowing and cackling a little. Be noble. Voice deep dismay and disappointment. And then say - "SHOOT! Did you see that kid on the rings?!"

This we didn't need.

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Because he had an affair doesn't mean he's a phony.

What is it with this black and white crowd?

Of course, I've only known him for about 7 years now, but it still makes me laugh to see how skilled he is at manipulating people.

I'll never trust JE again.

You can't trust his political acumen because of a private issue that has nothing to do with politics?

I'm sure you were on board with Clinton's impeachment too. :eyes:

I'm sure you have some "Me and John" anecdotes to illustrate what a faker (noun) he is. Since he's more fake than a $3 bill, you must have scads of examples.

I love storytime!

that actually believed his poverty rheteric. It's not like no one can check his voting record in the senate since 1998. His 2008 campaign slogans/promises were a 180 from his six year voting record.

It is good to see his true colos comig out.

the feigned rage reminds me of a clip I just watched today regarding this rage. Cenk calls it narcissism, as if it was perpetrated on those who act so outraged.

He lied about it over and over when asked. What exactly does make him a phony?

There is nothing wrong with having an affair
its not against the law
and people should do whatever they want
life is too short
live a little
have fun

otherwise your response sounds narcissistic.

Having fun at others expense is usually not a good idea.

Children are often deeply affected; marriages deeply damaged or ended: and
lives seriously crippled.

Seriously, I'm going somewhere with this.

Why you ask? Because when people break commitments others counted on, it can be very emotionally damaging.
Relationships are built on trust, especially intimate ones. Children more than anyone need security in their lives. They need
to know that they can rely on their parents. Part of that reliance is that they can depend that their parents
are there for each other. Infidelity breaks that trust. Children are often deeply traumatized by the disclosure
of a parent's sexual infidelity.

Except I wasn't asking about the children.

But ok, let's talk about the children.


So you're saying the children are somehow harmed by 'disclosure'. Let me ask you;


"Who chooses to harm the children by disclosure, and why do they choose to do that?"


You chose the twisty way, but we'll get to the same conclusion unless you bail out. Stay honest, this isn't about an agenda, it's about enlightenment.

Except that they do. Anything that destabilizes their security matters.
Infidelities often bring chaos into the family system.

Who said anything about choosing to harm children with disclosure? Often times
this stuff just comes out one way or another.

As far as your efforts to "enlighten" me, please do not bother. Sexual fidelity
is important to some and not to others. As long as two people understand their
own value and are honest with each other, nothing else needs to be said.

Going "I'm right, you were wrong" and rubbing salt in our wounds is stupid and you should be ashamed.

Nearly as fake as are the media who are letting McCain skate for similar behavior.

I'm disappointed in him, and a bit relieved that he is not the nominee. I'm not, however, ashamed for having supported him (briefly, as my second choice) for president.

I don't want to know more of the story; I want to know the story behind the story--who paid off whom in order to bring it to light.

I may have a gut instinct but I won't convict someone based on it. I belived it waiting for the data and now I have it.

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came home from the grocery store and Obama has a love child too. Well that is what the tabloids say.

obviously it is a touchy subject because he had a lot of supporters but I was never a fan and felt he was never being honest in what he said. Worries about his candor even hit Kerry in that infamous "storytelling gaffe". These sort of issues are important.

But iut wasn't because I went after his personel life. I attacked him on this issues.

I am also EXTREMELY disliked by Biden supporters as well.

Same story there. I don't attack his personal life either. I go efter them on the issues.

There is no vindication here. It's a sad story of a guy struggeling through anticipatory grieving. I leave it alone.

because I don't know about the man, but I respected that he advocated the poor. That's not populism, poor people aren't dependable voters and they are used as wedge more than anything else politically. The point's come from few quarters and as many negative or more are attracted.

I know all people are screwed up. In my politicians I don't expect anything different. I'm about ideas, effectiveness, and competence.
Morality matters but only because of how it will impact your performance. This is between Elizabeth and John Edwards. Only they and God can decide if this is wrong for them. Nonetheless, this piece is off the table, for good or worse.

FDR did, and so did Jefferson. Lincoln is rumored to have as well.

So freaking what??? Edwards still would have made the best president.

Hey look at me! I was brilliant and right all along! I am sooooooooo smart! :hurts:

It's a different world we live in from FDR, et al. Anyone with a brain, knows it's political suicide now. Edwards put our party in jeopardy. If he had been the nominee or even a VP pick, our chances of winning the White House would have gone in the ditch.

Maybe Edwards was drunk and couldn't help himself.

they met at a bar, so...could be. I don't judge him harshly for the affair (though it sure sounds lousy when you have a sick wife), but it's his really bad judgment to run for president knowing this could leak out that angers me.

Other patriotic, liberal Americans who had affairs:

Benjamin Franklin
Alexander Hamilton
Ted Kennedy
Bill Clinton
Gary Hart
President James Buchanan was rumored to have had a long-term homosexual affair with a senator.
John Kennedy is rumored to have had at least one affair (with Marilyn Monroe).
Martin Luther King, Jr. is rumored to have had extramarital affairs.

Obviously, these men were all inherently untrustworthy. :sarcasm:

Good Lord, it's like people expect politicians to hang up their sexuality when they run for office! Kinsey's report in the 1950's found that 70% of men admitted to having extramarital affairs, and that number has probably risen since the sexual revolution of the 1970's. I never thought I'd hear the left being as priggishly judgemental as the Moral Majority.

in this case anyway.

i think it's his squeaky clean nice boy appearance that gets people to side with him with such passion. maybe.

Peeping tomism" in other folks lives is way more disgusting than anything Edwards is accused ofJust as Edwards to the list of prominent folks who lied about sex big deal.. Get Rid of FDR, Clinton, Eisenhower, LBJ, Jefferson, jackson and a host of others how excercised what sone are calling "poor judgement. I would much rather them than the faithful hubby who bottle up his repression while holding his finger over the button! .

What a bunch of puritans. I want to elect a progressive president, not a damn saint.

Don't strain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

John Edwards hurt our Party. Take your anger out on him.

:sarcasm:

:spray:

have women throwing themselves at them--that's a different situation.

:eyes:

It's like someone who loves ice cream and they are on a diet and yet someone is constantly eating ice cream right in front of them. People are only human. Not to mention it's just fucking evolution that is built inside of us.

Boy this subject really brings out the best in everyone.

:rofl:

Not all men cheat. And there's nothing by societal expectations and gender stereotypes that make men more likely to cheat or justified in cheating.

There are many "urges" inside all people. But the choice over one's behavior is exactly that. I don't have much patience for the "He can't help it" argument. It's an insult to men everywhere who either honor the commitment they make, or honestly take responsibility for a choice to end that commitment - through divorce or any other open arrangement with their partners.

If so, you might want to go back to the drawing board.

And I'm having some trouble...

But seeing as how Bill cheated first, nobody could criticize Hillary for anything like that.

You and your wife and many of us here at the DU saw this phony as just what he was.

David Axelrod and others in John Kerry's campaign let the cat out of the bag how he had hurt Kerry's campaign.

He "co-sponsored" the Iraqi War Resolution" when he was in the Senate and only became a "liberal" when he was out of the Senate.

"I had a 5,000+ response thread of a torch and pitchfork mob against me for criticizing his lack of conviction and forthrightness. At least now people can once and for all see the emperor has no clothes and the pied piper is a charlatan." You were not alone.

Of course, and the greatest joke is that after taking all that shit for trying to point it out to people what a fraud he was, you will now be dished out more shit by those who are embarrassed by their lack of judgement.

The "news" today is that John Edwards ALWAYS was a jerk. He was screwing another woman while his wife has fatal cancer and running for the Democratic Nomination to be President of the United States all at the sam time. He didn't become a jerk today...he was a jerk the whole time.

K&R.

So was JFK a phony? LBJ?

How about Bill Clinton?

He was cheating on one of the finest women we ever seen while she had terminal cancer and trying to be our nominee all at the same time.

What Bill did was also lousy and what JFK did was not good, either. We don't need to defend those acts. I did that defending in the 1990's for Bill and wish now I hadn't and that he'd stepped aside and let Al Gore be president who then would have easily won the 2000 election.

Being faithful to your mate is a good thing that should be treasured. We are all imperfect, but his hubris to have been doing what he was doing while she was sick and while running to be President, well that takes a lot of gall.

I do see JE's as far more treacherous than what Bill Clinton did though.

I am just happy that this did not happen during the week of the convention which is how Dick Morris' little episode happened right on the night Bill Clinton was to speak to us at the 1996 convention in Chicago. I was there, I know.

The GOP can't make too much of this because McCain cheated on his wife with Cindy for a full year before they divorced. He can't even speak about this.

If he could do this under the circumstances with his wife being ill, and then lie about it, he's arrogant and weak and had no business running for the nomination. He'd have blown our chance at the White House. Fortunately that didn't happen.

There was something inauthentic about him--even back in 2004. I haven't tried to argue with anyone here about it, but I somehow just couldn't warm up to him. Something about his body language or facial expressions or something which told me not to trust him.

He had all that money and organization and wound up winning what? 16 delegates or so. He got something like 4% of the vote in Nevada where he had staked his campaign.

People apparently saw through him as being, as you say "inauthentic". He was. I'd called him a "phony" for a long time which was less kind than your word.

Thankfully, he's out now and not during the convention.

lack of trust about him were picking up on his dishonesty about his personal life, I'm sure. It's hard to live a lie; it's bound to show.

Martin Luther King had his affairs. So is no good too?

I think you are too pious. People make mistakes, this was a personal matter. It is none of our business.

in an effort to gently make people open their eyes.

he reversed his positions on everything in '08. Turns out he wasn't actually a phony; he was a corrupt, adulterous phony.

George H.W. Bush had a mistress when he came to Washington in 1981, and when he ascended to the Presidency in 1988. The press knew about her. Washington insiders knew about her. I'm pretty sure Babs and Baby George knew about her, too. So why didn't the Irrational Inquisitor plaster that all over its front pages?

IOKIYAR.

Can you believe that fucker's nerve?

Too many on this board to even try to start counting, and the absolute worst of the Edwards crowd (believe me, a few names immediately come to mind) isn't even here any more.

Here's your tribute!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Es1LCuUpeo

n/t

Imagine if he had become our nominee? A sure loss for us. This DOES make me think the man has a big ego. I supported him at one time too.

:wow: That cheating bastard!

If the media was as scandal happy then towards the president of the U.S. as they are now, he'd never have gotten elected to 4 terms.

It can't be "Oh my God McCain cheated on his crippled wife" and "Edwards situation is none of my business.

If one is, they both are.

...McCain is a member of a party which touts "family values" hence the hypocrisy. I voted for Edwards because I liked his ideas not because of his morality.

He was very critical of Clinton during the Lewinsky mess.

Like a used car salesman, and I work at a car dealership, I know it when I see it.

I took a lot of crap when I suggested that NE story might be true due to all the details it had. I said that the NE was going out on a very big limb with this story because if it were really untrue, they were opening themselves up to a libel suit from one of the best trial lawyers in the country. (FYI I was an Edwards supporter in the primaries).

I was called a rethug and had my intelligence called into question by even mentioning this story.

I'm not posting this to gloat but to ask my fellower DUers that next time a story comes out that might be damaging to a Democratic leader, don't label anyone who wants to talk about it as a rethug or an idiot.

And that's the part I don't like. He could have screwed us all if he was nominated and this just came out, or worse yet right before Novembers election.

maybe i'm thinking of someone else.

On the other hand, he is a dirtbag.

He's a heck of a guy, even though he's apparently a douche.

I didn't "know" he wasn't a fake, I just looked at all the information I could in his platform and positions and hoped for the best.

That's about all you can do. Sometimes you get burned.

Do we feel better now? :eyes: