Remarks from an acquaintance, need advice.

A co-worker began a small tirade on politics within our city, but ended this with remarks concerning Obama.
This is not word for word by memory, because I was rather shocked.

"Its not that he is black". "Its his name". "His father was a radical Muslim, and HE is a Muslim" "If he really changed his religion and became a Christian he would have changed his name. But he didn't. He is still a Muslim." "Have you seen his wife? I mean really looked at her?" "She is a hard looking woman". The rest sort of blurs into my own shockdom. But it was pretty bad.

I basically retorted that I like Obama and I like his wife, and I vote based on the issues our country is facing not on appearances, names or race. Sorry I couldn't say anything more intelligent, I was too shocked by the remarks.

I honestly do not know how to properly react to these kinds of tirades. I honestly do not know how to react to people who are clearly brain washed, because I was not raised that way. It shocks me and then I am left standing there with my mouth open. People who are college educated, intelligent, kind, people whom I genuinely like, but when it comes to politics, they lose it.

It is also depressing. To make an analogy it's like you have these acquaintances and you are going along just fine, and then all of a sudden, they tell you confidentially that they believe the sky is purple, and their favorite hobby is ripping live bunnies heads off with their teeth every Sunday afternoon. "Oh and have a nice day!" And you are like, WTF?

It's best just to having nothing to do with people like that.
"Teaching a pig to sing just wastes your time and annoys the pig"-L.L.

I think there's no hope. You could point out a thousand different ways why he/she is wrong, and they still wouldn't believe Obama isn't a Muslim.
Maybe you should suggest they stop watching Faux and jump on the internets to educate themselves, but I don't see that happening either. This is an issue they can grab onto, despite the fallacy of it, and feel content.
The fact that they're exposing their utter bigotedness and ignorance probably hasn't occurred to them.

and regarding the internet, these people are VERY computer savvy. They are getting their sound bites from the internet most likely.
No it hasn't occurred to them, because their views are accepted. They speak their mind with a pride that says "I know what is really going on in this country!"

The Muslim smears are just the cover of something inside...and sadly, racism is becoming a factor in this election. Most of us have grown up with trying to either overcome it or hide it. This is especially the case with repugnicans who have used race, fear and intolerance as the glue that holds their corrupt party together.

You can try to set the record straight, but do it for your own peace of mind...this sounds like no matter what, this person won't vote for a black, period. If it's not one excuse or lie, it'll be another. It masks a far deeper seed of racism that is like a drug addict who can't admit they have a problem. Instead of taking heroin, these people take Faux news and hate radio.

You can fight stupid. After over 20 years of predominately repugnican and right wing framing of race, the seeds of racism in some sectors are as deep as they ever have been. The saving grace is that this has become a minority view...thus why its shocking now when you see it on display. I've seen a lot of progress in race relations and tolerance in my lifetime and I've worked hard to overcome my own biases. The fact that Senator Obama has risen to where he is now is testament to millions who have also voted for him that shows there has been progress, but this is just one step in a long march. Hopefully we're about to break through a major barrier...a political taboo this November that will put a serious blow into the racist politics that encourage the hate you saw on display.

Don't be mad, be bigger...but also be assured that you're fighting the good fight.

Cheers...

I attribute my own shock to the fact that I was raised in the west and not in the south. The formative years make a huge difference in your attitude - how you were raised, what you heard as a child, how your parents dealt with issues.

20 years ago, my ex's family, then brother-in-law bought their child a black baby doll and taught her as she was first learning to speak how to identify people of color with racial slurs. I am being very correct here, as I don't think it is appropriate to repeat the ugliness. They actually thought this was cute! Again all college educated fairly well to do people.

The ugliness is there and it is real. But yes, I DO see the progress being made.

There are some people that you can talk until your face is blue - and they are going to think what they want.

Only - well - my real name is Adrienne. It was my great great Grandmother's name. My middle name is Estelle - same as hers. I have her features with my 'bi-racial' skin. Go back to 2003. There are people that were outright stupid bigots because I'm obviously - a little bit French - like she was. I learned then - that I couldn't change peoples' perceptions of Freedom Fried Surrender Monkeys. I gave up. I realized that in America it's perfectly acceptable to be a bigot towards the French and people with that heritage - but you can't be that way towards blacks, homosexuals, Italians, people who practice Judaism . . . only the French. So I gave up for awhile.

Now? I pound people over the head with the truth about what I know of my heritage. Example - I love the shocked look when I tell them my great grandfather left France in late 1919 because he thought the 'peace' the US brokered flat out sucked, and 'those people' would do it again (he was right) because we (the US candied ass out and sang kumbayah) and he'd already lost a few toes to trench rot (what's that they say about French Fop Surrender Monkeys?). So might as well come here get far far away from 'them' since we sold France out.

Maybe you could think of a few things to disarm HER - think 'shock' factor that tells the truth? Look - she's not going to change her thoughts on Barack Obama anymore than the average American will stop picking on the French but get all kissy with the other facist countries from WWII. . . So you might as well pull out the Jeremiah Wright reference. How the hell does a Muslim go to a Church with an almost 'revelationist' preacher at its' helm. Point the finger right back at her with a few God Damn Americas for its racism and ignorance and maybe - at least she'll shut the eff up! ;-) It works for me! :-) It's your chance to say 'God Damn you!' to her without flat out saying it . .. even though she's PRECISELY what that preacher was talking about.

And remember - she's not going to vote for Obama anyways. Let her think he's a Revelationist waiting for the end of times . . . .

personal responsibility. Barack Obama has a distinct heritage- his father was Kenyan. Ever hear of 'mau mau-ing the flack catchers'? Oh, no personal responsibility to know what happened to make our nation think/act the way it thinks act, eh! (Tom wolfe, a notorious rightwing boor writer, back in the 70's piled on liberal democratic types in books like 'electric kool aid acid etc' and 'mau mauing the flack etc' The 'mau mau's were Kenyan freedom fighters who in the 50's/60's terrorised the white/british colony minority and forced them out of power until Kenya became free country. Wolfe used 'mau mau' to describe american political activists who were demanding changes to public policy, especially the openly racist policies common throughout the country, and the poor bureaucrat goofs given job of standing up to them...to wolfe it was a joke, and liberalism (or honest representative government) unnecessary since tom wolfe and other similar white guys liked the status quo alot. wolfe later on wrote 'appollo 13' which avoided controversy, and has since hid away because he and pj ororke and william buckley so on were made redundant by howard stern and rush limbah and bellow really etc, and they also were afraid of getting shot)...your friend has a personal responsibility to know why Barack Obama honours his forefathers, and why Michele looks hard-she's the mother of black children in a violently white racist country that refuses to accept any personal responsibility to not be violently racist (all racism is violent, because anyone who experiences it has legal right to kill the racists, in the opinion of most people, foxnews reports)

> your friend has a personal responsibility to know why Barack Obama honours his forefathers, and why Michele looks hard-she's the mother

Not my friend first of all, an acquaintance. I don't count myself as having a lot of friends. My friends as I would call them are people who would not have these kinds of views. "Friend" is a special word in my vocabulary reserved for people who deserve the honor.

With that said, I am afraid that your informative and intelligent response regarding personal responsibility would only illicit a look of non-understanding - sort of like a deer caught in the headlights. That sort of look is endearing when I get it from my pets because behind it is pure unconditional love, but it is far less endearing when it comes from so called intelligent human beings with something far uglier behind those shiny windows to the soul.

and sold the zyclon b poison gas used to eliminate european jewry- grampa bush made a pile of money from the holocaust. Tell your coworker that. Then inform him the Israelis have been blackmailing the US with the nazi connections of prescot bush, the dulles brothers and henry ford etc, for many years- and blew up the USS Liberty using jet painted like Egyption AF to try get USA mad at Egypt, but the plot leaked out somehow and john mccain father had to lie like hell to cover up murder of nearly 40 US sailors. Mccain himself accidently dropped a bomb on USS Forrestal killing almost 200 servicemen and costing almost a hundred millions in damage. But Barack Obama should have changed his name? The fact is, your coworker is responsible for whoever gets elected, and it sure better not be john mccain, whom Vietnam veterans consider a turncoat and ratfink....

"So you don't like Muslims, eh? What's wrong with them? Surely you don't agree with the stupid people who say they are all terrorists. Because if you believe that, then you wouldn't send anyone you know to Dr. (fill in the blank), the local MD-heart surgeon-etc etc-- who has saved countless lives and is a real asset to our community." Personally, I could add that it was Muslim doctors who did the heart bypass surgery on my stepfather, giving him an extra 25 years of life. But anyway, you get the drift.

...and I don't know what you can say to them.

I have had a similar experience, from a person who did not used to pay attention to politics, but is now obviously a victim of Fauxitis. The person in question moved to a place near where their partner's relatives live. And apparently the relatives all watch Faux. And now this person says they "see evil" when they look at Obama's eyes, and "race was never an issue to me until he brought it up in the presidential race -- thanks a lot, Obama!" Real dumb stuff. And a total shock to me. I am just flabbergasted, to tell the truth. And I think the term "brainwashing" does literally apply. In other words, say what you will about Faux, they know what they're doing and they do it well.

They put a meme out there, they keep hammering it, and voila! They've stirred up the latent racism in people who didn't have any overt racism, but who still harbored the thoughts, perhaps without knowing it themselves. It is very effective, and it will be a factor in this race, of that there is no doubt.

I'm sorry but it is. It is a done deal. Latent racism in my opinion is not something buried, it is a state of mind, a belief system. You may not spout it all day long, because perhaps it is not looked upon favorably if you do so, but if someone or something threatens that belief that maybe you were raised on - AND you don't have enough introspection or intelligence to question your belief, you will act on it. Maybe not verbally like my acquaintance, but you are going to act on it when you vote. The Muslim banter is more a front in my opinion, agreeing with a previous poster.

...I think that lack of introspection is the key factor, for those who still have latent racism that is capable of being stirred up. I think many, many people have convinced themselves that they are not prejudiced, because that is now the accepted ethos, and they think that since they "accept" black people in the workplace, and in general, then they aren't racist, end of story. So they never dig deeper, never examine their own thought processes -- such as their still existing assumptions that most blacks think a certain way, etc. But now we have Faux et al who know exactly how to stir up the old prejudices and fears without coming right out... It is sickening.

I believe that many of these people are well intentioned but not very introspective about politics or psychology. For example, I asked my friend, what about the hateful speech of Reverend Hagee? And all the other white preachers who preach hate, especially against gays (the friend in question is not straight). And the hateful speech about Katrina and its aftermath? And what about ... well it goes on and on. Why aren't those white hatemongering preachers "scary" like the Reverend Wright was "scary"??? And why does McCain get a pass even though he called his wife a c*nt???

But none of it has any effect. And why? Because Faux and the associated noise machine does not play on logic, they play on emotion and the lizard brain. And it works very well. So I do not totally blame those who get stirred up in that way -- it is being done to them very deliberately, and most people really do not have the time or inclination to delve into political thinking to any depth. They count on the news to give them the different sides of the issues in a race, so they can use their reasoning and common sense to sort it out. And unfortunately the so-called news and talk radio, skew the message very craftily, making it easy for people to think they are being rational when in fact they have been played.

"Obama's not a Muslim."

it's about the ignorance that is revealed that is devastating. I like to send links..

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/
http://www.globalpolicy.org/
http://www.fpif.org/
http://www.publicintegrity.org/
http://www.corpwatch.org/index.php

it wouldn't make him less of a leader, you ignorant, backwoods fuckwit." After that you could lead into the fact that Obama is actually half white. I am claiming him for MY race, sorry black people. My story and I am sticking to it is that he is white.

He just tans really well.

> you ignorant, backwoods fuckwit

Thanks! I will remember this retort. I think that would probably end the conversation! :)

But now you are playing on my emotional latent bigotry towards ignorant backwood fuckwits!

..he didn't have the character to stay married to the gal who stood by him at home while he was a prisoner in 'Nam... and he didn't hae the courage to go after Bush in 2000 when Karl Rove launched attacks against McCain's adopted child in phone polls. A man who won't stand up for his wife and kids can't be counted on to stand up for this nation."

You're not likely to change anyone's opinion anyway, so why bother?

Let their attitude be their problem, not yours.

not likely to change anyone's opinion. Yeah most often I don't offer a reply to things that don't deserve a reply, and you are correct about it being in the workplace where it really isn't appropriate. But don't you feel at times you are running for your life from all the folks whose opinion you are not likely to change? God I don't know. It's depressing.

And it is very difficult to suppress your ego when someone is saying something that
is not work related and which offends your sensibilities. The cost of defending your
sensibilities may be greater than you think - consider the a-hole you're talking about
now. You'll probably never respect them, and odds are few others will.

All the other coworkers just nod in agreement and presume the wingnut is right.

"He called Obama a Muslim, and that liberal gal just shut up -- she didn't have a thing to say to that"

I think you're better off learning a basic, polite counter argument. At least put a counterpoint out there.

was a hard looking woman, he must think Cindy McCain is made of ice. Talk about hard and cold.

Sheesh.


I have actually broken off communcation with my sister in law over crap about Obama. Actually,
I just reached my threshold. I haven't been able to take more than about 4 hours of her
at a time in the last few years (I've known her since mid 1960's)because she is so damned
sure of herself. Cuts you off if you try to offer any opinion. Is died in the wool Repub.
Won't listen to suggestions. Has a reason for everything about why she is right. I finally had enough
when she sent an anti-Obama e-mail around that was just loaded with lies.

See my thread

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/mnhtnbb/140

Piyush Jindal is a good American, because he changed his name to "Bobby"

Barack Obama didn't keep "Barry"; therefore he's bad.

I have the same problem. Part of the problem is that these people don't dream these arguments up; they get them from Rush, Beck, Boorts, and Savage, and then simply parrot what they say. I think part of the answer is to bring items like that here, and let the collective wisdom here to DU and let those more clever than we are come up with an answer.

There are many threads here on Ms. McSame. If you actually want to get into the Michelle v. Cindy debate, there's plenty of ammo. However, that's another clus you're coworker is taking his cues from a righty talker; they love to go after Dem prospective 1st ladies. See "1992: Clinton, Hillary." They weren't too kind to Teresa Kerry either, and she used to be married to a Republican. The ideal Republican 1st lady sits down, shuts up, and plays hostess. She can do some educational work for kids, but not much else. The only Republican exception to this that leaps to mind is Betty Ford, who I frankly wish had run for her husband's job.

being one.

They claim it's not about his 'color'- but it is about his 'religion'. And Michelle is dismissed because of how she "appears"? Not sure you can do anything to help this person. Perhaps you could turn it around on them picking up on the absurdity of their statement- in hopes they see themselves for what they are, but I wouldn't count on it.

ie: "it isn't about the red hair and freckles, or even that nice tenor voice of his, it's about the Catholicism. I mean after all if he really wasn't a Catholic any more, he'd have changed his name from Timothy O'leary to a nice benign name, and the wife.... she may be a tiny thing, but you can see she rules the roost- he can't even have a sip of beer but she's all over him with that temper of hers."

:shrug:


prejudice is ugly no matter what flavor it comes in. IMO

nothing you say will change the way they think. IMO

how can we ever hope to change the sad state of affairs with the small minded who are currently running our country?

Yeah I ignore most ugliness for my own peace of mind, but when do we have the courage to turn things around?

"At least put a counterpoint out there." Good post and points as well.

Probably something about not discussing "politics" at work and spreading gossip and lies.

Also, are there no African-Americans at this job?

Is everyone a Christian?

Is there no diversity at all?

How small a company is this?

Also, did you tell them what you posted here? That you...

You don't have to be rude, just tell them how you're shocked.

That would be an interesting conversation.

but yeah you are right, it would actually be a great conversation. And no this is no small company, there is a LOT of diversity.

Really?

Amazing.

I live in California and am continually brought back to reality by the sheer stupidity people (even members of my own family) proudly flaunt in daylight in front of other people.

away. that is what i am going to do in this area as they chase after me to explain they really arent. it is just.... "no, you are a bigot".