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What the hell is going on in Georgia?

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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 04:23 AM
Original message
Poll question: What the hell is going on in Georgia?
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 04:27 AM by ColbertWatcher
From the selection below, which statement best describes your understanding of the conflict between Russia and Georgia:

Choice 1: Russian troops attacked Georgia unprovoked

Choice 2: South Ossetia has been trying to gain independence from Georgia and possibly reunify with North Ossetia (which is part of Russia) when Georgian troops went in to quell the uprising. Russian troops sided with South Ossetia.

Choice 3: There's a North Ossetia now!? I just found out there's a South Ossetia!

Choice 4: Russian troops are burning Atlanta on their way to the ocean

Choice 5: I don't know and I don't care, now watch this swing...

Choice 6: Other (please elaborate in reply)
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Choice 4
I KNEW it. Them commie bastards were bound to invade here! They want our barbeque and dusky ethnic women!

But they will NOT succeed. We have kicked their asses on the Piedmont. There are no Russian Tanks in Atlanta! None!

***BOOOM***
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. ROFLMAO!!!
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 08:27 AM by Odin2005
The first thing I thought when this BS started was "The Freepers will grab their guns and go defend Atlanta"! :rofl:
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Early on, there were rumors that someone posted a question on Yahoo Answers!
Asking where the Russian tanks were and would the asker have to get his guns.

Too funny.

Naturally, Yahoo pulled it.


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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. Naked Russian Imperialism.
I'm seriously disturbed and disgusted by how many DUers are bashing Georgia. Russia perfected the art of getting people to believe lies ages before Karl Rove did, I rarely believe anything that comes out of the Kremlin at face value. The Russians don't give a damn about the people of South Ossetia, for the Russians they are just "useful idiots," just like various Latin American right-wing "rebel groups" The US supported in places like Nicaragua. It is also obvious that this is a Russian response to us helping Kosovo, as if the two situations were equivalent.

It is also obvious OIL is involved, namely the oil pipeline running through Georgia. Russia wants as much control of oil from the Caspian Sea and Central Asia as possible in order to use the oil supply to blackmail Eastern Europe and thus keep the other former Soviet states, Ukraine especially, it's vassals. I would love to see Ukraine and Georgia becoming members of NATO, and eventually members of the EU, as a message to Russia to quit screwing with other former Soviet countries.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. What, in your opinion, was the start of this?
Here's an early report, in which Georgia sounds proud about breaking a ceasefire with the Ossetians, just a few hours old:

Georgian forces and South Ossetian separatists have been exchanging heavy fire just hours after agreeing to a ceasefire and Russian-mediated talks.

Russian media reports said Georgia had launched a tank-led attack on the separatist stronghold of Tskhinvali, and airstrikes on rebel positions.

Georgia says it aims to finish "a criminal regime" and restore order.

At least 15 people are reported dead. Moscow called on the world community to work "to avert massive bloodshed".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7546639.stm
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. The phrase "Russian media reports" means the claim is highly questionable at best.
IIRC Hitler claimed Poland attacked first as an excuse to invade Poland. Russia pounced on Georgia so fast that it looks like a set-up. "Surprise" attack my ass.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. The 'crimiinal regime' quote comes directly from the Georgian government
Later in that same article:

The Georgian Minister for Integration, Temur Yakobashvili, said Georgia's aim was not to take over the territory but to finish "a criminal regime".


Russia may have been ready for the Georgians to break the ceasefire, and have taken advantage of it to advance far further into Georgia than North Ossettia, but all the reports say it was a deliberate move by the Georgian government that started the serious fighting in North Ossetia.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Naked neocon meddling and provocation, about oil (what else?)
Gee, our intelligence agencies ran a phony "rose revolution" to put this fuckup-ashvili into power. Then we and the Israelis arm him to the teeth, and try to get his country into NATO. Oh, and then, we run an oil pipeline (to compete with the Russian pipeline that already existed) through Georgia and any other greedy little country whose leaders want some oil graft.

But, its all about Russian imperialism. Right.:sarcasm:

Meanwhile, S. Ossetia has been a breakaway republic since the early 1990s, when the USSR broke up. The Russians have been protecting it for FIFTEEN YEARS. That's pretty much a settled state of affairs. But, on Friday, fuckup-ashvili preemptively shells the country, killing over 1% of its population (1,000 dead in initial Georgian bombardment out of 70,000 total pop.) and killing bunches of Russian peacekeepers (hey, if we can call our gangsters peacekeepers, so can the Russians).

But, its all about Russian imperialism. Right.:sarcasm:

Yeah, its imperialism; but the Russians are so much better at it than us. If we are going to be run by gangsters, I want them to be competent gangsters - not these neocon fuckups. They keep betting and losing, WITH MY CHIPS.

Call me when our side finds someone who isn't so corrupt and/or insane that he loses even when he cheats.

arendt



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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. "Phoney" Rose Revolution? BS.
Yea we helped with the Rose Revolution, and Georgian government may not be a perfect liberal democracy, but it's better then it was when it was run by Kremlin stooges. And WTF is the problem with building an oil pipeline that the Russians can't use to push Europe around?

And a country of 70,000 people isn't very viable (the micro-states in Europe are very dependent on thier neighbors), A South Ossetia that is part of an at least passably democratic Georgia that will eventually be in the EU and NATO will be much better off then a South Ossetia that is part of a despotic Russian empire.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. "Not a perfect democracy" - you can say that again. Prez was in 911liani's law firm in NY...
this guy is neocon to the nth degree; and we have all seen what great democracies the neocons create.

These days, the Kremlin stooges are more competent than our stooges.

As for

> A South Ossetia that is part of an at least passably democratic Georgia that will
> eventually be in the EU and NATO will be much better off then a South Ossetia that
> is part of a despotic Russian empire.

Read some history. The Ossetians are NOT ethnically Georgian. The Ossetians HATE Georgia. But, you think they would be better off in a country that has tried to genocide them.

What a joke your argments are.

arendt
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. The corporate media won't touch the CIA meddling; have to settle for Alex Jones...
The Rose Revolution was not a simple uprising but was aided by the CIA and Ambassador Richard Miles (think Serbia). From early 2002 onwards the CIA had been operating in Georgia, supposedly to combat Al Qaeda. And yes, Georgia is an odd place to fight the war on terror against OBL. One of the main groups that took to the streets and stormed the Parliament house was Kmer (meaning "enough") was almost certainly CIA funded. Saakashvilli was never the democrat and wonderful liberal he was made out to be. His was a strategic role. He would further US interests in the Caucasus, especially with respect to Caspian sea oil in return for US and EU protection. However, Saakashvilli could never guarantee total support at home and thus slipped into heavily using patronage (what other may call corruption) and strongman tactics. He vamped up the nationalist rhetoric and classed with Russia over Southern Ossetia (population 70,000, about the same as Tunbridge Wells). He called Georgia’s participation in the USSR as the "Soviet Occupation" and put up posters around the Capital Tblisi stating that entry into the EU and the European Peoples Party specifically was his key foreign policy goal. The Prime Minister mysteriously died. All the time the EU was favourable towards Georgia’s entry into the EU and the US pushed heavily for Georgia to be brought into NATO. Saakashvilli has viewed and presented membership of NATO as not being part of the "western alliance" but in terms of nationalism. If Georgia is part of NATO it can play hard ball with Abkazia and South Ossetia, the two Russian backed breakaway regions (for a good economist article by Tim Judah click here), with the power of NATO behind it. That is why this small, often forgotten nation is of great strategic importance: oil and "great power politics".

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3840, Jan 5, 2008
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. I don't get it either
Most people here seem to pull for the underdog. Israel v. Palestinians, Israel v. Hezbollah/Lebanon, Tibet v. China, etc.

But now when a country of 4 million is being attacked by Russia (which has pushed out of the disputed territory and launched attacks across the country even though Ossetia is under their control), suddenly Georgia is the big bad oppressor? Huh?

Of course, the pro-Russia people (who were probably bashing Putin 2 years ago and were rolling their eyes when Bush said he was a good guy) will say that it is really the US that is at fault for meddling where we don't belong. I suppose it has never occurred to them that the Georgians don't want anything else to do with Russia after nearly 200 years of domination and eagerly courted the US and EU for the protection they could potentially provide. Oh no... it's obviously the US and the EU and those nefarious Israelis who have prompted this whole problem. If Georgia would just submit to Russia, as things should be, we could all bash the Olympics in peace :sarcasm:
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arcadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Other: Every summer has a war.
It will fade into obscurity soon enough. I think it might be a wag the dag type thing.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. The Georgian President thought he had the support and gratitude
of George W. Bush and United States of America. He's finding out that loyalty to George W Bush is a one way street. Bush has his agenda and it doesn't involve loyalty to his collation partners. American troops are not going to help out anyone anywhere unless there's a profit in it for the Bush crime family.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. "...loyalty to George W Bush is a one way street"
So very true.


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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. I selected #2, but have to admit I enjoy checking out the "Maria Sharapova" look-a-likes"
on those "Russian Women" sites.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
8. The North Ossetians broke their hard bolied eggs on the big side, while laughing.
This must not stand.
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