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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:35 AM
Original message
American troops found amongst Georgian dead
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 06:36 AM by spooked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBMQufrBWdg

"There are lots of bodies over there, a lot of people have been killed, mostly Ossetians, but also Georgians, they had American emblems on their forearms and they were in black uniforms."


Georgia makes up the 3rd largest coalition in Iraq after the United States and Great Britain. Did Bush send our American troops into Georgia to fight the Russians?


http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/2008/07/13/georgia_national_guard_.html
Troops from Atlanta will train in Republic of Georgia

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=63866&archive=true
U.S. troops, contractors in Georgia not believed to be at risk


Is it just a coincidence that our TROOPS and CONTRACTORS are in Georgia when a war with Russia breaks out?
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mediaman007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. IED's will be the least of our soldiers' worries if Bush* has committed us
to this. McCain can only make it worse.
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Raoul Donating Member (666 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
77. Yawn..
Oh dear, another war with Amerikan troops. Wow, that's astounding! ha ha ha..
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great catch.
It's hard to keep up with the little bastard.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
75. What the hell!
It's like our country has been hijacked by a madman!

Either that, or someone put those men in American uniforms to create problems for us.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Cheney's boys!
No wonder the pig is squeaking.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. Operation Immediate Response '08 not so immediate, or is it?
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 06:50 AM by bushmeister0
"In addition to the trainers, 1,000 soldiers from the Vicenza, Italy-based Southern European Task Force (Airborne) and the Kaiserslautern-based 21st Theater Sustainment Command, along with Marine reservists with the 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines out of Ohio, and the state of Georgia’s Army National Guard’s 1st Battalion, 121st Infantry recently participated in “Immediate Response 2008."

What the hell is Immediate Response? Sounds kind of omminous, doesn't it, given the circumstances?

From the web site:

"The mission of IMMEDIATE RESPONSE '08 is to improve interoperability of U.S. and Georgian armed forces (GAF) at the unit level through the brigade headquarters level. Through the Immediate Response series of exercises, U.S. and GAF will develop tactics, techniques and procedures for potential use in future joint and combined operations."

http://immediateresponse.pims.org/

Where did the Georgians ever get the idea we'd rush in to help them? Hmmm . . .

Globalsecurity.org:

"In addition to the trainers, 1,000 soldiers from the Vicenza, Italy-based Southern European Task Force (Airborne) and the Kaiserslautern-based 21st Theater Sustainment Command, along with Marine reservists with the 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines out of Ohio, and the state of Georgia’s Army National Guard’s 1st Battalion, 121st Infantry recently participated in “Immediate Response 2008. . . This is a great opportunity not just to prepare for future missions in Afghanistan, but to build the relationship our state has with the country of Georgia," said Maj. Matthew Smith, commander of the 1st Battalion, 121st Infantry.”

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2008/07/mil-080715-arnews01.htm

Uh huh.

If there are dead US troops, that really complicates things, doesn't it? But if they're just contractors, well who cares about them, right? They're on their own. That's the beauty of privatizing the Pentagon!
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Was sending soldiers into S Ossetia part of the "exercise"?
"The fighting began when Georgia sent troops into the breakaway province of South Ossetia on Friday. Georgia had hoped to reassert control over territory, where many residents have Russian passports, but Russian forces intervened."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080810/south_ossetia_080810/20080810?hub=CTVNewsAt11
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. Which side is Blackwater on?
Or have they been hired by both sides?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Catch 22
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 06:59 AM by Jake3463
When Milo bombs his own airbases. Sad when Satire can actually be considered a possibility.
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. Truth is stranger than fiction,,,, I always said Catch 22 was historical.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
47. I read Catch 22 before I went to Vietnam.
I re-read it the summer after I returned.

Amazing how much my perspective on the book had changed. Mostly, it was a matter of belatedly realizing that it wasn't satire.
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BB1 Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #47
78. I read it after Bosnia.
I never thought, until the last fifty pages, that it was satire. I thought they had really all gone mad. Disturbing book, if you don't find the right angle.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. Both our experiences go to show just howweird & surreal
military experience can be.

I swear we had a supply sergeant who had taken lessons from Milo Minderbinder.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #12
70. One of the most insightful quotes on film; Milo to Yossarian;
Milo:          Nately died a wealthy man. He had over sixty
shares in the syndicate.

Yossarian:     What difference does that make? He's dead.

Milo:          Then his family will get it.

Yossarian:     He didn't have time to have a family.

Milo:          Then his parents will get it.

Actor2:        They don't need it, they're rich.

Yossarian:     Then they'll understand.



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Oldtimeralso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
68. Blackwater fights for the highest bidder N/T
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
6. well, given that weve made them alot of promises
since right before the fall of the soviet union and since its fall...

im pretty sure we told them, if youre a democracy we have your back...

im sure we do and will have atleast some sort of involvement in the conflict.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. Condi my have confused Saakashvili .

"Rice said in her comments with Saakashvili on July 10: "We have noted concerns that violence should be -- should not be carried out by any party."

Slip of the tongue? An April Glaspie moment?
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. Meanwhile, Bush is enjoying the Olympics
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080810/south_ossetia_080810/20080810?hub=CTVNewsAt11

Meanwhile, U.S. Vice-President Dick Cheney said late Sunday that Russia's military action against Georgia "must not go unanswered," as the conflict over the disputed territory continued to escalate.

Cheney made his remarks while speaking with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili. The United States has historically given its support to Georgia, which has been lobbying for inclusion in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

According to Cheney's press secretary, Lee Ann McBride, he told Saakashvili: "Russian aggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States, as well as the broader international community."

The fighting began when Georgia sent troops into the breakaway province of South Ossetia on Friday. Georgia had hoped to reassert control over territory, where many residents have Russian passports, but Russian forces intervened...

But even as Georgia called for a ceasefire, AP quoted a senior American military official who said Georgia has recalled its 2,000 troops from Iraq. The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the U.S. agreed to transport the Georgian troops home and that "some flights have already begun."
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Loudmxr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
8. The only thing I know is "War Is Good" for Republicans
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #8
69. Not this time.
I can only hope everyone is sick and fucking tired of wars.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. Perhaps was Blackwater there?
In some respects that might be more insidious!
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. most likely...
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:58 AM
Response to Original message
11. Probably Blackwater
The all black uniform with an American Flag on the forearm isn't anything US troops wear that I know.

If our government sent troops they would put them in Georgian uniforms.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Erraaa... the Georgians are wearing and packing
U.S. issued gear. :shrug:
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. also possible
could be also the women was told to lie by the russians for propaganda purposes as well.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Israelis at the party, too!
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. I found somebody suggesting either Blackwater or DynCorp
I found the same anonynmous post at several message boards suggesting that both those firms wear black uniforms. Dyncorp sounds a bit more likely though -- Blackwater is supposedly getting out of mercenary work and more into training.

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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #24
34. Which means blackwater was there training people.....
The conflict just meant there was a little OJT....
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I'm getting suspicious of that posting
The identical message seems to have been posted anonymously in a dozen different places -- never a good sign.

In terms of more repubable sources, I did find this:

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11213

Georgia: US Privatizes Military Aid

by Nick Paton Walsh, Guardian (London)
June 6th, 2003

The Pentagon is to privatise its military presence in Georgia by contracting a team of retired US military officers to equip and advise the former Soviet republic's crumbling military, embellishing an eastward expansion that has enraged Moscow.

After a Georgian appeal for support to the US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, during a visit last month, a team of 20-30 private defence consultants are already in Tbilisi. Their employer, a Washington security firm, Cubic, has a three-year $15m contract with the Pentagon to support all aspects of the Georgian ministry of defence.

A senior western diplomat said: "One of the goals is to make the army units capable of seizing and defending a given objective. The consultants will work with US defence liaisons in the US Tbilisi embassy and the European command in Stuttgart." He said the programme could continue for much longer than three years. . . .

A Georgian security official said the Cubic team would also improve protection of the pipeline that will take Caspian oil from Baku to Turkey through Georgia. Georgia has already expressed its gratitude by agreeing to send 500 troops to Iraq.

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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I don't know how many operatives Dynacorp has, but Blackwater has about
125,000 from what I understand.....

Mercenaries with recent combat experience make excellent cadre to train little armies in urban warfare....

And GREAT deniability in case they're killed or captured.

I wonder if Blackwater is just the public face/ overt ops section of the CIA......

In any event, these corporate soldiers are a way to send our military expertise into countries too sensitive

for our regular troops.

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
13. Did Washington give its OK to Saakashvili?
Given Georgia's close ties to the US military for support and training of their own troops, I would find it hard to believe the Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili would have attempted to use force to reclaim the breakaway South Ossetia region (the apparent trigger for the Russian invasion) without getting a green light from Washington.


Georgia and Russia are careening towards war. And the U.S. isn't exactly a detached observer in the fight. The American military has been training and equipping Georgian troops for years.

The news thus far: Georgia, which has been locked in a drone war over the separatist enclave of Abkhazia, has launched an offensive to reclaim another breakaway territory, South Ossetia. Latest reports indicate that Georgian forces are laying siege to Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital. And Russia, which has backed the separatists, is sending in the tanks.

So why should we care? Oh, just the prospect of a larger regional war that could drag in Russia – and involve the United States as well. Since early 2002, the U.S. government has given a healthy amount of military aid to Georgia. When I last visited South Ossetia, Georgian troops manned a checkpoint outside Tskhinvali -- decked out in surplus U.S. Army uniforms and new body armor.

The first U.S. aid came under the rubric of the Georgia Train and Equip Program (ostensibly to counter alleged Al Qaeda influence in the Pankisi Gorge); then, under the Sustainment and Stability Operations Program. Georgia returned the favor, committing thousands of troops to the multi-national coalition in Iraq. Last fall, the Georgians doubled their contingent, making them the third-largest contributor to the coalition. Not bad for a nation of 4.6 million people.

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/did-us-military.html
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
32. Excellent point. U.S. consultation most likely through a back-channel.
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 10:41 AM by leveymg
I get the feeling the Israelis might have served as intermediaries, as they have on so many occasions before. Interesting article at ynet about deep Israeli role in Georgian government and in training and equipping Georgian military.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. SCARY STUFF Part 2 - OBAMA'S FUTURE ROLE
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 07:42 AM by spooked
I have been following with some concern the reports of close ties of Carter's former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski to Obama. It appears Obama could very well be Brzezinski's "cock-puppet".

A NEW brain for Barack Obama!
"It's 78 years old and it still works perfectly. It belongs to Zbigniew Brzezinski"
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2007/03/a_new_brain_for_barack_obama.cfm


Obama, Brzezinski, and the Neolib-Neocon Family Feud
http://moderate.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/obama-brzezinski-and-the-neolib-neocon-family-feud/

"Let’s call Barack Obama what he is—a sock puppet for the ruling elite. Obama made this plainly obvious recently when he tabbed Zbigniew Brzezinski as his top foreign policy adviser."



NOW, check out what Brzezinski had to say in an interview yesterday about the situation in Georgia:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-gardels/brzezinski-russias-invasi_b_118029.html

Brzezinski: Russia's Invasion of Georgia Is Reminiscent of Stalin's Attack of Finland

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Fundamentally at stake is what kind of role Russia will play in the new international system. Unfortunately, Putin is putting Russia on a course that is ominously similar to Stalin's and Hitler's in the late 1930s...

In brief, the stakes are very significant. At stake is access to oil as that resource grows ever more scarce and expensive and how a major power conducts itself in our newly interdepedent world, conduct that should be based on accommodation and consensus, not on brute force...

The United States, particularly, shoulders the major burden of mobilizing an collective international response..."


SCARY STUFF coming from OBAMA's Foreign Policy "Guru" and "Top Foreign Policy Advisor".



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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
33. Zbig is NOT the top Obama foreign advisor. A direct confrontation w/Russia is NOT Obama policy,
but it may happen, anyway, regardless, if the Russians continue to press Caspian reonsolidation as a policy.

This is part of a Great Game the world's major powers have been playing in Central Asia for a century-and-a-half. The Hitler-Stalin parallel doesn't work nearly as well as Czarist model of expansion-retraction-expansion.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Tin foil hats on sale cheep at Macy's, NY
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
74. CFR patsy for the elite
but but but Obamas not a member he just speaks there.

Ha
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
18. They have been there a long time, very openly.
They were there to train Georgian troops (advisor's).
I wondered if they would get caught up in the conflict.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
19. Thank you, spooked. Really appreciate having seen this thread. n/t
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
20. We must have troops there. We are every place.
Time we came home and stopped this getting into every ones business. Course as we become more like the Romans and become a nation of war and arms it is hard to pull back. I am sick of these Presidents that all long for a white horse and a ride down the Mall on it. Give us all a brake and lets get the WW2 and WW1 group out of our govt. I am sick of war for every thing.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
35. thank-you.
I hate the pattern. It seems go where ever the oil is located.

I'm at the point now where when ever I hear the words conflict I jump on google to see if there's oil interests there.

I'm very tired of it and I'm sick and tired of paying for it. All of us should be.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
22. No such thing as a coincidence with this corrupt administration...
I can't believe Pelosi said impeachment was off the table...Good God!
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
25. They will probably be listed as 'non-combat related' ....



they died while on a 'training exercise' in another location.





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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
26. So why were they still there?
Seems to me a "three-week operation" would have been over a week before all this started.

"From the first linked article dated 7/14/08

"A large contingent of Georgia Army National Guard soldiers flew to the Republic of Georgia on Sunday for joint military exercises at a time when tension is brewing in the region.

<snip>

The three-week operation also provides practical training for the 48th Infantry Brigade's 1st Battalion, 121st Infantry Regiment just months before a pending deployment to Afghanistan."

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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
27. Apparently, Rice was there fucking things up in early July:
http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n145921

Exercising Bush's special brand of 'diplomacy', or as it's more widely known, 'a sure-fire path to war'.

Can we please get these morons out of office already?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
28. If we were going to fight the Russians, it wouldn't be with a few dozen troops.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
29. So now we're over there stirring things up, getting ready for McSame's GTA
Grand Theft of America.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
30. I have read elsewhere that Russia was reacting to a Georgian
push to "reestablish it's control of the breakaway province". . The whole concept of borders around there is kind of fungible...

When we hear "WELL THEY STARTED IT" from anyone, we'll have to consider that.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
31. No one is asking questions on why we're there, wait
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 10:32 AM by nc4bo
CNN just had an interview with who I think was a Russian official (I was too busy trying to defend myself here to catch the name).

The CNN anchor asked him whether he thought that the U.S. presence there was the direct cause of the conflict and the official said with carefully chose words that he did not think our presence was the "direct" cause. It seemed to be he was choosing his words very carefully and maybe even insinuating that maybe it was a direct cause but certainly could be an indirect one.

But who am I, definitely no political expert.

I don't believe him.

EDIT to change Georgian to Russian for reasons stated in the ()

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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
39. We've been training and arming Georgia's military
And last month we held war exercises with them and others in the region. So it would not surprise me in the least if American soldiers and/or contractors were among the dead.

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Christa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. FFS
Is there no end to his deviousness and to our shame? :(
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
41. The plot thickens
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mojowork_n Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
42. Google "BTC pipeline" + Halliburton + Cheney
and you get this commentary, from 2005:

http://usa.mediamonitors.net/headlines/the_baku_tblisi_ceyhan_pipeline_and_the_politics_of_oil

Here's an excerpt from the link:

The Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan (BTC) pipeline, 1,090 miles (1,750km) long, and designed to carry 1 millions barrels of oil a day from the Caucasus to the Mediterranean when it reaches full capacity (scheduled for 2009), has been built by a consortium of Western oil companies led by BP, which also includes the American oil giant Halliburton, closely linked with US vice-president Dick Cheney and other senior figures in the Bush administration. Its building was begun in 1998; planning for it has been going in for much longer. Not by chance, the pipeline, after winding through Azerbaijan, Georgia and eastern Turkey, arrives at the Ceyhan Maritime Export Terminal on Turkey’s Mediterranean coast, right next to the major American airbase at Incirlik. The fact that the project has cost more than $4bn -- 75 percent of which has come from bank loans underwritten by western governments, and 25 percent from governments directly -- is itself a sign of both the scale of profits that the Western companies hope to make from it, and its importance to Western governments. In future, it also has the potential to link up with gas pipelines running across the Caspian from Kazakhstan.

When the pipeline is fully operational, which is expected to take another five years, it will be capable of carrying 1 percent of the world’s daily oil requirements. It has been designed to enable Western companies to access the major oil reserves of the Caspian Sea without having to deal with either Russia, which Western governments regard as a strategic rival, or Iran, which is regarded as an enemy. The oil reserves of the Caspian Sea are regarded as a useful alternative source of oil to the Muslim Middle East, which is regarded as unreliable because of the widespread hatred of America among the region’s people. It also provides an alternative to the existing pipeline owned by the Caspian Pipeline Consortium, which leads from Baku to Novorossiysk in Georgia, which is regarded as being too much under Russian control.

Such is America’s determination to gain control over Caspian oil that it was a major factor in the West’s intervention in Kosova, where the US has built Camp Bandsteel, one of its largest permanent military bases. Before the bombing of Yugoslavia, supposedly to save the Muslims of Kosova from the Serbs, the Washington Post insisted in an editorial that “With the Middle East increasingly fragile, we will need bases and fly-over rights in the Balkans to protect Caspian Sea oil.” (The US intervention in Kosova is often cited as proof that it is not anti-Muslim, and in fact has acted in the past to save Muslims from attack by their enemies.)

The West’s military interventions in the Middle East are also determined largely by their interest in the region’s oil. It is now well-established that the US had been willing to support the Taliban if they had agreed to build an oil pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan; it is not a coincidence that Bush’s special envoy to Afghanistan, appointed after the invasion in late 2001, was Zalmay Khalilzad, a former consultant to the American oil company Unocol, who had actually been involved in planning the Afghan pipeline and negotiating with the Taliban about it from 1995 to 1997.


here's the Sourcewatch linkm on "Media Monitors Network". (It's a website that might correspond to the Al Jazeerah point of view, on many issues.)

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Media_Monitors_Network

More here, from Mark Ames, formerly of "The Exile":

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/08/09/10898/

McCain’s call to NATO-ize the war is not only frightening, it’s also delusional: both NATO and US forces are already stretched beyond the breaking point, even by Joint Chief of Staff chairman Michael Millen’s own recent assessment.

But McCain’s brain remains undeterred by reality, a fact that became painfully clear today in Des Moines when he also demanded, “The US should immediately convene an emergency session of the United Nations Security Council to call on Russia to reverse course.”

The problem with McCain’s bold demand about going to the UN is that Russia already tried doing exactly what McCain called for–and got rejected by McCain’s neocon pals in the Bush Administration. Early this morning, Russia convened an emergency session of the UN Security Council, calling on both sides to immediately cease hostilities, return to the negotiating table and renounce the use of force–but the last part about renouncing the use of force is exactly what Georgia’s president Mikhail Saakashvili refuses to do.


There's more at http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=13285 (a paleo-conservative, libertarian website)...





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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
44. Maybe those are tattoos on their forearms?
Ex-military guys working for Blackwater, etc?
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
45. US troops have been in Georgia for at least six years.
"WASHINGTON, April 30, 2002 – The first 20 U.S. service members have arrived in Tbilisi, Georgia, and will begin training the Caucasus republic's troops in counterterrorism operations, Defense Department officials said April 30."

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=44111


Of course with the secrecy of the military AND Bushco the reality may be much different.
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Homer12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
46. Finally, Nukler War ....
...Cheny now has a reason.

I didn't watch The Day After all thos etimes for nothing.
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
48. Today's HEADLINE: "Georgians in Israel say they're willing to fight"
Georgians in Israel say they're willing to fight

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1218446175058&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

"A roaring crowd of Georgians - some with Israeli citizenship and some without - stood in front of the Russian embassy in Tel Aviv on Monday in protest of the ongoing military operations in their home country, while some said they'd even go back and fight, if given the chance."

"I'm trying to find the next flight over," said George Jorjikya, who immigrated to Israel from Georgia 12 years ago."

According to Jewish Agency statistics, 23287 people have immigrated to Israel from Georgia since 1989


Could be a very dangerous situation indeed...
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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
49. yesterday some pundits
were arguing over whether we should be involved or not.

Eleanor Clift and Pat Buchanan said it's not our business.

The 2 ultra rw mouthpiece bimbettes said it's our business because we have troops there.

I believe I heard on one of the other pundit shows that we have something like 2,000 troops there.

The $64m question is did we push Georgia into the initial attack?

Maybe all the Iran shit and talk about an October surprise were just a distraction. Maybe they decided on an August surprise and instead of Iran decided to confront Russia through a diff proxy.

Dumb and dumber. Very skeery stuff. Well back in 2000 I predicted in some blog or another that W would take us to WW3. I was hoping I was wrong, but...
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
50. K&R. Troops from "Atlanta" on the midnight plane to Georgia??
:crazy:
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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
51. I wonder if the BFEE has been sending enemy combatants to Georgia to get boiled in oil?
What are friends for, after all? :puke:

:scared:



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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
52. beginnings of a WWIII?
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Given WW1 started by the shooting of an Austrian Archduke...
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 08:36 PM by roamer65
this very well could be the lighting of the WW3 fuse.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
53. I haven't heard a word about this yet on the m$m; do you
think we will?
The snewz is too busy talking about Edwards.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
54. Sounds like Russia got fed up with the goof balls fricked up foreign policy. Won't hear that on CNN
or Faux though. The propaganda war begins. Believe me now or later.

Breaking report: CNN: Russians raping little girls in Georgia. I am so tired of our bull shit media.
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aasleka Donating Member (465 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
55. This whole thing confuses me, Georgia did bomb Russian bunkers right?
and then when they got a response they backed off,,, if it was us we would do the same thing. I am not sure where Russia is any different than we have handled the same situations. War being hell and there is no clean war where civilians do not suffer.
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. Georgian essentailly invaded a neutral break-away territory with ties to Russia....
...in the process either killing or displacing the large Russian civilians population there and challenging Russian interests. In response, Russia not only retaliated, pushed Georgian forces back behind its own border, but also moved into the county or Georgia, went far beyond "fighting rebels" on the border, and have been kicking the crap out of the Georgian Army on what now appears to be a march to the Georgian capital.

It looks like Russian intends to TAKE Georgia.

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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
56. Just invade Azerbaijan and the link to the Iranian border is complete...
Edited on Mon Aug-11-08 08:38 PM by roamer65
and the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline is fully under Russian control.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
58. read the Chapter "Caspian Pipeline Dreams" in Scahill's "Blackwater"
its Chapter 11. i dont want to give away the answer.

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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
59. There's nothing to this:
Troops have been there very openly for a long time. We have not made a secret of our efforts to train and build up Georgia's military. They were not "suddenly" there in preparation for what has happened in the last 72 hours.

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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. There certainly is "something to this" if US troops were killed bearing arms against the Russians.
Even if turns out they're American "contractors" it is a big deal.

Don't think for a second that groups like Blackwater & Dyncorps are not semi-covert, elite extensions of the Pentagon/US War Machine. The Russians know this.

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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
61. Not coincidence at all, the same strategy Hitler used in 1939 to provoke
...war with Poland
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-11-08 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
62. If I may interject some reality here
As my username implies, I've lurked here for quite a while, and this thread finally compelled me to unmask. It remains to be seen how long I'll stay, as; most likely I'll piss somebody off in short order, and get...I believe the DU term is tombstoned. But anyway...

Everybody's jumping all over this, and apparently taking it as gospel, with no independent confirmation. You wouldn't be so gullible with a story from our MSM. Russian media is no better, and is in fact a good deal worse. This is almost surely crude Russian propaganda, and the fact that there have been no followup reports simply reinforces that conclusion. I think a lot of people here want to believe there are American mercenaries there, simply because it reinforces what they think about Bush. Look, This administration is the worst in American history. But that doesn't mean every single thing they do is wrong, nor does it mean they're responsible for every bad thing that happens in the world.

There also seems to be an assumption by some that since the Georgians have ties to the US, they must be in the wrong, in the same way that countries at odds with the US often get the benefit of the doubt here. That kind of thinking is every bit as specious as the kneejerks you find on conservative sites.

I read both this site and FR, to stay informed about what the fringes are thinking. And you may not believe it, but there are some good people and interesting ideas over there, just like there are some good people and interesting ideas over here. But both sites have a lot--and I do mean a LOT--of flakes. I see it as two sides of the same coin, and it's rather amusing for one side or the other to point out the latest looniness on the other board.

There you have it, fire away.
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. I believe you are probably correct
On both counts actually. If you continue to post you will likely get yourself tombstoned, and unless there is independent corroboration of this story forthcoming it is likely just propaganda.
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Ex Lurker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. so be it n/t
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #62
67. Welcome to DU, Ex Lurker!
To be honest, you can indeed interject common sense here without getting in trouble. I've been picking fights with idiocy for years now, and I'm still kicking.
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WorseBeforeBetter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
66. The US, Russia, Israel, Georgia, Ukraine and Iran... WTF is going on?
Edited on Tue Aug-12-08 01:03 AM by TWriterD
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=ajKcyj.jffHQ

The conflict deals a blow to U.S. aspirations of bringing Georgia into NATO's orbit and of bolstering an emerging energy corridor linking Central Asia to Europe.

...

Georgia is a key link in a U.S.-backed "southern energy corridor" that connects the Caspian Sea region with world markets, bypassing Russia. The BP Plc-led Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline to Turkey runs about 100 kilometers (60 miles) south of Tskhinvali.


http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=66203§ionid=351020202
Israel 'has a hand in S. Ossetia war'

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/did-us-military.html
Did the U.S. Prep Georgia for War with Russia?

http://english.pravda.ru/world/ussr/11-08-2008/106054-georgia_usa-0
Stratfor acknowledges Russia defeated US, not Georgian army in South Ossetia

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/35448
Massive US Naval Armada Heads for Iran

http://www.metimes.com/International/2008/08/11/special_report_kuwait_readying_for_war_in_gulf/7724/
SPECIAL REPORT: Kuwait Readying for War in Gulf?
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
71. God help us, and I mean that from a neopaganchristian POV
As I read down the thread and digest the links, my stomach gets heavier & heavier

where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

I have been afraid for months, or more, that we may not make it to a November election. B* and Cheney aren't going anywhere, and they may throw MCCain a bone and let him play war once the chaos has taken hold and 2/3 of us are either "encamped" or worse. I have harbored fears, and told myself I was just being silly. That Evil couln't possibly get a hold of the planet, that we were too smart for that, etc...

Goddess, please let me be wrong! :scared: :Nuke:

Will they just blow it all up? I guess they have to just ruin everything before global warming gets us.
This is gonna get SOOOO narly, so fast...
Who is stocked up on ammo? beans & rice? Water? shit...who's got the weed and whiskey!

ya, tell me I am nuts, tell me that it won't happen...make fun of how my :tinfoilhat: looks - it IS HAPPENING and we will watch it unfold and be more than shocked and awed. scary shit maynard

I just want my kids to be okay :cry: what a f---ed up world

dammit!
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
72. Kick & Rec - so someone can tell me it's gonna be okay?
this sucks, in so many ways sideways from sunday.... :scared: :cry:

Prayers for all the children, mothers and elderly who are scared, thirsty, hurt, lost & alone...

So sorry for these evil men being allowed to run rampant! why haven't we put them in jail yet? why hasn't SOMEBODY in Some country, the UN, NATO, etc been able to reign in their power and terrible tactics? oh, ya, they run it ALL...

so very screwn :grr:
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
73. I've been reading about the Russian bioweapons program...
which did NOT end with the breakup of the Soviet Union.

:scared:
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sofa king Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-12-08 05:11 AM
Response to Original message
76. First Guess: They didn't change uniforms.
The American emblems were more likely recognition bands so that the Americans themselves wouldn't be tempted to shoot them in Iraq.

Many Georgians hopped (American) planes and returned to Georgia last week. Chances are a lot of them died still with Iraqi dust on those same uniforms they were wearing when they bugged out.

That said, the United States almost certainly unloaded some of their own observers in Georgia at the same time. Everyone wants to get a look at how the Russians fight in the post-Soviet era, and while the Bush Administration is plenty stupid, they're plenty evil, too, and likely wouldn't overlook the opportunity.
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