Conservatives, what drives them ?

Serious question here. When I've researched issues in the past, I've almost always fallen on the left side of the equation because, it simply made sense from my value system. I suppose if I came from an extremely right wing family and never had any exposure to "liberal values", I may have gone more to the right.

I'm asking this because, I went to another message board with supposedly intelligent people posting on it. My assumption of liberality was rapidly blown out of the water by some very cantankerous conservatives. The argument that really shocked me was that the USA was on the brink of winning Vietnam during the Tet Offensive but General Giap just so decided not to give up. This supposedly was in his autobiography. I was totally shocked to read that someone actually believed this.

Does it really come down to values in the end ? I know there are other factors at work, but is this what really organizes them ? I know there are some on the right who are primarily motivated by power and greed. I'm speaking of the run of the mill guy or gal who owns the business next door or who goes to work every day just like you do.

"Values" have nothing to do with it, as conservative "values" are situational at best, but mainly false mythology.

especially the inconvenience of changing an erroneous opinion. It's why they are terrified of education, of change in policy, of anything that opens the door to their small world a crack.

This especially applies when the undercurrent is racism.

This whole "I just don't know if I can vote for Obama" stuff is at least half linked to that. If it isn't completely linked to grief over Hillary, then it is probably somewhat rooted in the racism,

and it is because of FEAR that if he is PResident, then the (please please please don't take offense, this is just OPINIONATED conjecture here) N*****S will finally be running the country.

I truly believe from the bottom of my feet that Fear is the root of the mean spirited thing that is called conservatism (which isn't really conservatism by definition). All the ProLife, AntiGay etc stuff is hyped by the R's to hook in the Religious Right, many of whom may also fall into the Fear of NonWhite category.

It was fear when my high school was integrated in 1963, it was fear and the ability to exercise power that created Jim Crow too.

It makes sense.
They got theirs and their loved ones are all taken care of. They resent being taxed and feel that they should be able to use their resources the way they want.

Small government, strong defense. It is really easy to understand.

Many of my conservative, Southern Baptist relative are poor. They don't "got theirs."

and they know that the government isn't gonna help them.

They might, for instance, be eligible for food stamps. But they know that they need to go apply for them. They know that they will be treated like dirt while applying. They know that they will be treated like dirt when redeeming food stamps. So they don't bother with them.

Perhaps they get some help with their food from their Southern Baptist Church or from their neighbors.

But they don't feel like the govt is there to help.

fear sub-headings: gun grabbers, terrorists, gays, liberals, god's wrath, Communism, all the other -isms, Big Government, the illusion of security, change, new ideas

greed: taxation (also counts as a fear I suppose), free market, the illusion of "fiscal responsibility"

Everything pretty much comes down to those two things from what I can tell. Most conservatives also either fall into the "I'm old school and I miss the mythical good old days of 1950's/1900's/1850's" or "I'm a self-styled rebel who hates Big Government butting into my life but I will encourage it to butt into the lives of others." Notice many of those self-proclaimed rebels proudly wear the uniform: a Harley, a southern flag, blue jeans, etc., and are nigh-indistinguishable from each other.

And so different answers - Religious and Libertarian Conservatives are the easiest to understand; both have strong ideologies that are somewhat consistent. You might not agree with those ideologies or belief systems (lord knows i don't) but they are open at any rate.

Old Style Conservatives seem motivated by an idea of what America is all about - a sort of glorification of the past combined with a fear of the changes in our society.

Fiscal or Business conservatives are motivated by what they think is good for Business or the Economy - largely self interested.

Limbaugh Conservatives are largely motivated by resentment and fear - they resent those who disagree with them and they fear those who look differently than them. For a good example of a Limbaugh Conservative look up Jim Adkisson.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

It absolutely does NOT come down to values at all. They're perfectly happy to ignore their "values" if a republican does something wrong.

They want to keep every single cent they ever made. And the religious ones obviously don't have much real faith, since they're afraid of everything.

No sharing allowed

This applies whether the ingroup is based on race, economic class, religion, etc. That's the gist of their motivation, IMO.

Maybe ignorance on the third one, I'm not positive.

what I call "real" conservatives, more in the mold of Goldwater or Bill Buckley, do believe in bringing in a better world, just as we do-- it's their means of getting to that world that differ, not the results.

When was the last time you heard a "conservative" mention Goldwater? Or, for that matter, Eisenhower? Not lately you haven't, because the neocons aren't conservative at all-- their ultimate goals aren't a better world, just a world in which they wield the power. And these neocons have managed to hijack whatever there was of the conservative movement.

All of these answers share one common trait -- that conservatism is a shortcoming, a failure. That says more about the posters than about conservatism. Sometimes there are simply ideological and/or policy differences about what is the best means to approach a societal problem. To chalk it all up to fear, bigotry, greed, etc. is very short-sighted and does nothing to help understand how to combat an opposing viewpoint.

And, just so we're clear on this, I make this
suggestion because I've never seen you write a
post that wasn't defending conservatives in some
way or another, so I figure you're our "subject
matter expert" on this.

Tesha

Hi there: There is a difference between defending on the one hand, and explaining/discussing on the other hand. I have been accused of "defending" when I am merely discussing an issue. And to many on here, if I don't echo the prevailing sentiment that conservaites are vile people, then I am suddenly defending them. As for this thread, to chalk all conservatives up to greed and bigotry and fear and hatred is just plain silly. Like it or not, there are some very intelligent conservatives out there. To discount the entire movement on such sophmoric terms is short-sighted.

I've never pretended to be a true progressive, and I have always been clear that I'm a free-market, capitalist Dem who is closer to the Joe Lieberman model than the Ned Lamont model. If you take that to be conservative, that's your call. But I would be willing to wager that across the country, there are more Dems out there like me than like you.

once you define it as a pathology, then you can no longer debate any issues. You've already branded conservatism a mental health disease. So how can there ever be any meaningful discussion of opposing views? Once you frame it in such stark terms, there can be no compromise and no meeting of the minds. You have predetermined it to be a case of healthy versus ill.

There has to be more to it than that, otherwise discussion and debate is futile.

Once you discredit conservatism as a solution, you can still debate issues; "Civil unions or Gay marriage?", "Single payer health care or nationalized health services?".

Conservatives have intentionally and largely successfully discredited liberalism. That war wasn't a byproduct or a side affect. We weren't collateral damage. Discrediting liberalism was the goal in and of itself. It is only through the complete bankuptcy of their ideas that people are reevaluating that perception.

I want to destroy conservatism in the same way. Completely. The only difference is that I don't want us to screw up in such highly obvious ways like they did. Imperialism, facism and totalitarianism should not be one end of the spectrum of rational debate. Torture should not only not be a solution, it should not be an option.

Tactically, I'm right. Medically, I'm right too. They're nuts.

a conservative? If so, you are lucky. The ones I run into resort to name calling and subject changing immediately upon challenge to any one of their opinions. Their so called principles are false, as they reverse them whenever necessary - they apply a complete double standard in all arguments. They claim they are for small government, except that it's OK for the government to spy on us all in the name of terra and keep track of us all because one of us might be a terrorist. They think affairs show poor character in a politician until it's a Republican who did the sexual indiscretion. Their black and white thinking is amazing, to the point of self delusion.

An opinion is not worthy of equal respect merely because it is someone's opinion. Some people really do hold their opinions because of their character flaws. The conservatives I've run into are cowardly (not wanting to face up to problems, they simply deny them), self centered (they have theirs, if others don't, it must be their own character flaws only - notice the projection) - and they are so insecure they simply have to have someone to look down upon (thus there insistence that poverty is due to mere lack of character, that people not born in the U.S. are inherently inferior and not entitled to be treated justly, their delight at the existence of criminals, who are easy to feel superior to).

Bring up global warming to a conservative, and immediately they resort to insulting Al Gore. Bring up election theft, and instant ridicule. Bring up that maybe the war in Iraq is not necessary and is causing unnecessary ill will, and get immediate scorn that any method other than force will work and that any attempt at negotiation is appeasement, then tell me their opinions are to be respected as somehow equal and just a different way of seeing the world.

Conservatives don't think so much as accept some trite phrase that sounds nice to them, explains a social phenomena, and is a principle they can act by. Examples are:

(1) Poor people don't deserve any help from the government, it is their own fault they are poor because they are lazy.

(2) The free market is efficient and can't be tampered with.

(3) Government is inefficient and private industry can always do better at less cost.

If you need more examples, just pick any applause line from a Reagan speech, like "government IS the problem" or "the nine worst words to hear are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help'". The doddering old fool could play conservatives like Bach at the pipe organ.

They don't think about these phrases, since it reinforce their greed or xenophobia or spitefulness, they accept the phrases at face value and parrot them like they are another set of commandments. They like commandments. Despite having to conform to commandments themselves, they can use them as a cudgel to beat those worse off than them. And besides, if they break a commandment, like having a meth party in a hotel room with a gay hooker, well, all that means is that they will have to find a different church where nobody knows them.

... as freedom fries technician specialists grade II -- working the graveyard shift at Chez Maisson du Burger Roi and House of Deep Fat Fried Pork Rinds, LLC. -- to buy a fine '65 Buick LeSabre with 214,000 miles and worn out rings and valve guides everybody backed up behind them chokes in clouds of acrid, toxic smoke. This is high humor to wingnuts everywhere and they celebrate by tossing a couple more empties out the window.

At least that's how I think the whole thing works.


wp

Certainly not of tomorrow, but only getting through the night without the closet monsters escaping. "Perhaps if I light the house on fire? That'll get 'em!"

When all their stances, goals and world view are put into one basket, it's labeled "Fascism". Nothing conservative about that.

Limos, & Yachts. They drive them everywhere except to the recruiters office.

They tune in to the RW Radio Hatemongers so they can get a handle on how they are supposed to think. And if they are bright enough they might remember some of the talking points they picked up while listening to their propagandist of choice. From there they pass what they heard on to whoever is dumb or gullible enough to listen to their second-hand lies and exaggerations.

... are the three main tenets of Conservatism.

You can see it everywhere in McLame's pathetic campaign.

I'm going to have to say ego.

Conservatives are the kind of people who believe they are right first, foremost and always.

When something comes along that makes them doubt their own perfection, all hell breaks loose.

They begin to fear that if they can be wrong about one thing, they might be wrong about other things as well. They hate having to reassess their entire lifestyle to accommodate this new development. Then they belligerently cling to the safe, traditional unchanging rituals that have served them so well for so long. Calling upon like-minded fellow travelers for validation and a safe haven in a world that is evolving beyond their understanding.

It's like an old person who feels only the music he grew up with is legitimate, or the heroics he participated in when he was a youth qualify him to be president.