I would like to thank Russia for . . . .

the exhilaration of seeing the neo cons stopped in their tracks.

we americans haven't been able to stop them. or even slow them down in their criminality.

now if more of the world would join in, we might rid us all of this criminal gang and get about the business of saving the health of the earth and everything on it.

war with Russia. Why do you think they've been dragging out the Iraq war for so many years? They can't stand the thought of "peace" because they see that as being weak. war for oil, war for profit, war to keep them from getting bored.. it's all they want for the U.S. for as long as they can fool the people into re-electing them.

They already broke our armed forces. What do they think they're going to fight with?

I'll be so glad when the big spoiled brats are gone, I can't even tell you.

The US military (esp. the Air Force) is chock full o' nuts who believe that we can bomb anyone into submission.

It's actually been the most salient part of US military doctrine since 1942/43.

And there's a boatload of brass, pilots and button pushers who are just chomping at the bit to "git some".

You're not going to see American boots on Russian soil, or Russian boots on American soil. No matter how many times you watch "Red Dawn", it ain't gonna happen that way. Don't expect the Fulda Gap scenario to actually happen.

The way it starts is that Russia attacks an American ship, or downs an American plan bringing in "humanitarian supplies" - when in fact it will be proven that we are actually providing weapons to Georgia. Then we retaliate by striking a few Russian targets near Georgia. Russia then attacks one of our ships in the Persian Gulf, or launches an airstrike against US forces in Iraq.

US & Russia go back and forth launching attacks and retaliatory attacks on each other, until the UN steps in and somebody mediates a cease-fire. Meanwhile, the Cold War is back in full force, and both countries have their golden opportunity to start building up their military forces.

I'd put a sarcasm thingy here but.......

Selling weapons is our #1 industry, I think.

Reading this literally made me feel sick to my stomach.

I do agree with you though.

This strikes me as the most likely scenario.

The NeoCons are chickenhawks. They know Russia can wipe us out with nukes. The countries they want to pick on cannot.

The "war on terror" is no longer selling with the American people, who are more concerned with lost jobs and homes. They needed to ramp up the "Cold War" to win back the "national security" issue.

the pentagon players will again plead poverty before congress, hoping to gorge the offshore accounts of their defense contractor golf buddies

but collateral damage is OK if it is for a good cause. Can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs you know.

It represents exactly who we are and what we are all about.

the sarcasm thingie?

I sure hope so....

Real classy.

I agree with the other poster in that I hope to God you forgot the sarcasm on your post.

no matter what the cost. Nothing else really matters. :banghead:

Perhaps that will finally make it obvious to the idiots who cheer on despotic regimes who "stick it to Bush" that they do more harm than good.

Rarely is the enemy of your enemy your friend. Eventually, they'll turn their eye on you as well.

They might actually have a chance if this escalates because people are uninformed idiots for the most part and easily worked up into a frenzy. Especially those from the generations who were raised with the belief that the Soviets are our mortal enemies.

They failed to sell "Islamo-fascism" as a credible threat, so they had to go back to their favorite "enemy of choice".

That is despicable.

You would trade Georgian lives for Republican humiliation?

Are you SURE you mean that?

they are a gang of criminals that took over the Rep. party.

Your position is nauseating.

And to insinuate someone needs medication because you
don't agree with them falls right in the gutter
next to Bill O'Reilly telling people to "shut up."

I have a family member on meds for bipolar disorder,
and I find your insensitivity to people affected by mental illness
disgusting.

So how about YOU shutting the fuck up?
Think before you post.
BHN

Just that if it's going to happen anyway. And the fact that it shows that the neocons cannot control the entire world by force. Recognizing that could save lives, in avoiding future wars that have no basis other than carrying out the "New American Century."

And don't buy the bullshit from US media. The vast majority of casualties in this disaster are Ossetian. Their capital was leveled and Russian peackeepers were killed and wounded in a midnight sneak attack a few hours after Georgia announced a cease fire in deference to the opening of the Olympics. The Russians pushed out the Georgian military out of Ossetia. They followed them into Georgia to destroy their ability to re-attack into Osettia. In cities like Gori they captured and destroyed tanks and other military hardware. The US media is claiming Gori was destroyed by the Russians. It was not. The Russians actually stopped looting by local Georgian gangs as the local authorities had fled. The amount of ignorance on DU over this crisis is staggering. I feel like I am at the New Republic. Bob

Not that that matters compares with scoring cheap political points in the US...

you do realize this is an oil Barons fight over pipelines and ports? using our money.

let's say that again - the oil Barons are fighting each other with our money.

Woo Hoo! Invading foreign countries and killing innocent civilians in an indiscriminate show of violence is OK?! As long as the US (or Israel) doesn't do it, I guess it's OK...

This logic is fucking twisted.

The same South Ossetians who are pro-Russia and have refused Georgia's attempts to rule them since the 1990s.

Yes, bad Russia for invading Georgia after Georgia invaded South Ossetia.

Maybe you don't know about this, or, how would you, news never considered it important:
South Ossetia (as it was called by Communists) is the land not only of ethnic Ossetians, but Georgians too (Actually, ethcnic Ossetians came there much later than Georgians). Ethnic Ossetians are wonderful people and mixed families are a normal practice there. No one thinks as of different people about each other in the region until exteral forces intervene.
Unfortunately, with Russia's support terrorist groups have been attacking Georgian villages over and over again, cutting water supply, looting, killing, etc. I always thought that people living there did not have lives - they were in constant fear, they lived in a nightmare.
If Georgia made moves against Ossetia, many would agree that it was about a time to protect its citizens. And besides, believe it or not, Georgian soldiers were much more laid back in their actions than Russians. You can check Human Rights Watch's report on this: http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2008/08/13/georgi19607.htm
I believe they are not biased, as they have done numerous critical reports on Georgia earlier and they have no personal interest in justifying Georgia's actions.
In any case, South Ossetia is still part of Georgia and it has never been recognized as an independent state even by Russia, so it should not give it right to prevent Georgia from fighting terrorists.
And even more, Georgia simply does not have so much resources to destroy whole Tskinvaly (capital of SO); this was done by Russian jets trying to kick out Georgians from there; they bombed the hell out of whole city and whole region (and not only there).

It's too soon to be absolutely certain, but all the evidence suggests that on both sides this is about nationalism and national pride, not economics.

or sex

I guess the art of thoughtful discussion is a vanishing art on DU.

Truly, the influx of members who sound just like right wing
hate show hosts is depressing.

BHN

:shrug:

What, you think that this is all a video game, or what?

stops them. How is that a bad thing?

:banghead:

I guess deaths destruction looting and burning peoples' homes aren't a bad thing to some folks.

have gone in.

The responsibility for the "deaths destruction looting and burning peoples' homes" lies at the doorstep of the White House and the entire republican party.

don't forget that.

attempted to do in South Ossetia. Chechnya had no big, strong neighbor that would come to its aid, as South Ossetia did, so Chechnya got leveled.

Russia cares about national territorial integrity dissident forces are within Russia's own borders, but stands up for the rights of breakaway provinces when they are in other countries (particularly provinces with ethnic Russian populations and proximity to an oil/gas pipeline they would like to control).

We are prone to assume that everything that happens in the world is due to something that the US has done, or allowed to happen, or caused to happen. (It is a version of "American exceptionalism). It is possible that Russia, Georgia, and Ossetia (North and South) have existed for longer than the US has been around and might have reasons to resent each other.

First of all, Georgia has not cleansed South Ossetia of Ossetians.
Second, and what's important, Chechnya is a separate country populated only by Chechnyans. South Ossetya (Samachablo before the communists) is a Georgian land populated both by Ossetians and Georgians; they came quite late in the history. Should this piece of land be cleaned of Georgians because Russians decided so? Actually, several years ago Russians did say that Georgia is a wonderful country but only without Georgians and this is their goal.
Georgia is giving them a full autonomy. Unlike Georgia, North Ossetia does not even have ossetian language schools. Is this how Russia wants to protect its ethnic minorities?

different situations.

Your information does make it more obvious that Russia's military devastation of Chechnya was much more indefensible and outrageous than the action the Georgia took in South Ossetia.

it is a real nation with a real military. They only like to wage war against powers like Grenada, Panama, and Iraq - in other words, foes that cannot fight back.

2) Can we ask Russia (and the world) to invade our Georgia and other red states to rescue us from the genocide that the pukes are jonesing for?

Congratulations.

Afghanistan, Chechnya, now Georgia. That's quite a list of military powerhouses.

Neither the US nor Russia has gone up against "a real nation with a real military" since WWII unless you count fighting the Chinese army during the Korean War.

So, we are rooting for a Russian Empire now?

Because Russian expansionism ALWAYS works out so well for everyone involved. Maybe we can give them Poland while we are at it.

Russia is the only nation capable of standing up to the repukes (our Democrats certainly aren't).

After the real enemy is defeated, we can "constructively engage" with the Russians to bring them closer to democracy.

But, first things first.

No one is that silly.

Or are you on the side of the Georgians and their genocide?

Nobody here is cheering on a new Russian empire. We're just grateful that there is SOME power somewhere in the world capable of standing up to the neocon empire. At this point, we are so desperate we don't really care who it is. Our "Democratic" Congress and its complicit and/or cowardly Speaker are clearly incapable of it. They know all about the will of the people who put them in office, and they obviously don't give a damn.

Let me make sure I understand you perfectly.

Today is August 15. The election is fewer than 100 days away. Obama will win this election. He will be in the Oval Office in January, fewer than 180 days away.

Yet "we" (whomever "we" may be) are so desperate for someone to "stand up to the neocon empire" that "we" are willing to sacrifice the lives, property, and wellbeing of Georgia. I am willing to bet that the Georgian people would have preferred to wait for the American people to deal with the neocons in the election, rather than have Russian tanks provide you with satisfaction.

You mentioned the Speaker. Do you mean to say that an alternative to vigorous impeachment hearings is an exhibition of force against Georgia?

You put scare quotes around Democratic, indicating that you are displeased with the agenda it has followed so far. Do you mean to say that your lack of satisfaction on the political front can be mollified by death and destruction in Georgia?

After reading your post several times, I do think you mean those things, so please don't include me in your "we." I am not grateful that Russia is out there rampaging, and I don't for a minute think that Vladimir Putin is doing this to provide succor to the American people.

somebody has to stop the neo cons

or we all suffer the consequences

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

ability to stop the neo cons in their march to empire.

How is Putin different from Cheney?

You do know that he's an authoritarian thug right? He's destroyed dissent at home, jailing and in some cases likely responsible for having them assassinated...

It's no wonder Bush saw into his soul and saw what he liked years ago. That should tell you something.

--all over the planet, especially not a North American Command.

Some personal information maybe interesting; the rumours go that his mother married a Georgian man and left him in an orphanage (shame on them!). Maybe that's why he hates Georgia so much and did not let the chance out to bomb it. Of course, this is not confirmed information but Georgian TV company once even showed his mother still in Georgia.

CENTCOM, NORTHCOM, SOUTHCOM and AFRICOM, get back to us. When they have 100+ military bases 5000+ miles away from the borders of their country, get back to us. Bullying smaller neighbors always sucks no matter who does it, but even when Russia actually did have an empire they never had the remotest chance of making the entire world their military fiefdom. Citizens of the country which is actually trying to do that have absolutely no moral standing to gripe about the former.

Trust me, that was no easy feat to accomplish.

Bravo! :rofl:

nt

As much as I distrust anything that smacks of global it will take a united effort to smack down the neo-cons, zionists, banking families, energy interests and bible thumpin, knuckle-draggin, mouth-breathin corporate globalists that are manipulating ourselves and the environment of our spaceship.

I don't care if it's Russians, Indians, African Bushmen, or a coalition of astute and threatened polar bears that puts a stick in the spokes of this movement of destructive and self-serving interests. It's a global virus and we will all have to take the medicine to kill it.

Don't pay attention to your detractors. Those who stand in the middle of the road invariably get their asses run over by those who drive down the middle of the road; Pelosi, Reid, Conyers, Lieberman, McCain, etc. Patience, they will get their asses run over, hopefully in this lifetime so that we can enjoy the spectacle.

Those who would have you accept the parameters of what they view as reality are those who accept the illusion that reality is objective and something to be shared. That's the herd mentality, they have neither the will or the vision to fashion one of their own.

Anyone who bitch-slaps these asshats pushing the buttons in Georgia, Iraq, Iran or anywhere else is OK by me regardless of nationality, they're just outraged people like you and me.

nt

Well someone has all their code-words in a row today.

Unless one is discussing the Matrix trilogy.

I always try to encourage those who think outside the box hence the stroking of ensho's efforts which I find admirable. As for the rest of it, note the avatar portrait of the proto-palestinian, we children of genocide will never go away. "If you suffer them to dwell among you they will become as a needle in your eye". That's me, Mr. Needle, but I'm not the reason you're blind.

Careful in your reply, the whole world reads DU and not many subscribe to your priorities. If you're lucky whoever is moderating will be sympathetic with an accent on the pathetic and remove this post.

Snipers are universally despised on principle. It would be best to put me on your ignore list, better proponents of eff-upped belief systems have already done so.

We are all, each and everyone of, us two-armed, two-legged, oxygen dependent carbon constructs with dreams, fellow astronauts on this tiny blue marble speeding through space. I promise to and I am confident of success in making a total ass of anyone who wants to argue this basic premise.

Got a problem with it? Tell it to the Marines or better yet, the Astors.

I have no need to be spoon-fed an opinion. I'm an unemployed dad with too much house and two teen aged boys still at home....no time left over for the amusement or persecution of the imaginatively abused.

Get a life outside of a message board that separates one life belief from another. Get a life.

Outside of that, can you love me as I love you? Just askin....

O Yeah, read the posts below. This won't make sense without them.

Anything for a balance of power on this planet

a sole westernized superpower is better than your "balance of power" idea where proxy wars are being waged all across the globe. And no, I don't care if it's the US as the only superpower. Any Western European country or Canada would be fine with me.

The idea that today is more violent than the cold war days comes from a 24 hour easily excitable newscycle. Don't be so gullible.

Welcoming wars elsewhere, because it might benefit your own political cause, is just what the Bushies do!

I think both sides were at fault in the Russia/Georgia war, and that Saakhashvili is an idiot. But I'm not going to cheer Putin either!

This is a neo-con's wet dream--Russia invades another country, proof that those foolish liberals are wrong and the evil empire still exists.

Which is why Bush's approval ratings are so low, and why Obama is ahead in the polls and we are ready to vote out the Repugs. Of course, this may all change if enough people embrace the return of the Cold War and go for the security Republicans.

Yep, that saving the health of everyone is going well--just ask the Georgians.

This is like Christmas. They've been searching for the great enemy to justify all their facist tendencies and laws. China won't work, never demonize your banker. Islamo-Fascism was always too vague, but Russia, the once and future foe? A new cold war means endless contracts for their buddies in the Military-Industrial complex. It means an endless wartime footing with a nuclear power. It means "duck and cover" waiting for armageddon, a real possibility of the fundie's nuclear wet dream.

No, this is harvest time for the Neocons, we must be careful or it will be the late 1950's all over again.

Putin is a KGB agent" meme. Actually, he's probably playing out his role in this high-level clusterfuck according to a script.

Criminy fuck, I can't believe some of the bullshit in this thread!

If Pol Pot or Mussolini came back to life and fucked with the Bush Administration people here would cheering him. Is everything that bad that in the world the result of some neo-con Bushite conspiracy? That question goes beyond this thread. Just look at any thread about some negative event in the world. There's always someone who blames it on Bush. Anyone who defies Bush must be a bloody hero...

It's inherent in the makeup of fanaticism. Everything is in black and white for their fanatics and for our own, never acknowledging that the world is all shades of gray and even sometimes completely unconnected colors.

When one of these people can explain to me why invading Iraq was bad but invading Georgia was good, or why we condemn Israel for threatening strikes against Iran but cheer on the Russians making similar noises against Poland, and can do it with invoking "neo-cons, Zionists, and international banking families," (all these code-words; why not admit your nasty little bias and say "Jews," for fuck's sake) then I might listen to them.

being a neo-con, a zionist or an international banking family. Judaism is a religion, not a race or political affiliation. Perhaps I'm wrong and you would like to explain it to me in a civil manner that wouldn't disturb the love that you and I should feel, each towards the other.

Mitzpah (google it)

Well, maybe not. There was one time someone posted words to the effect of "I think I could get to like this Kim Jong Il fellow since he called Cheney a 'criminal'"

That was actually dumber than this thread, but you still get the silver medal for idiocy.

by a newly resurgent and aggressive authoritarian Russia?