Your opinions on an odd little religion/school issue.

Every year, my university (a public land-grant university) puts on an event called "FallFest." The entire point of FallFest was originally to encourage students to avoid a rather infamous local block party that nearly always results in lots of excessive public drunkenness, fights, property damage, etc. FallFest generally involves a few concerts, some games, a dance party, and beer available to over-21's, but in a safe, controlled environment.

This year, Chris Daughtry is headlining at FallFest, which is fine. What's not so fine is one of the other bands that they hired. It's a Christian rock band called "Day of Fire." They are a TRULY Christian rock band, and much (if not all) of their music is very Christ-centered and focused on religion. This isn't just some regular rock band that happens to have a few Christian members.

If the event is paid for by the University, then it's public taxpayer money that they're spending, and it irks me that they've hired a religious band with taxpayer money. It's not like this is some local band that's really popular--nobody here seems to have even HEARD of these people. But they're being paid to come sing preachy, Christianity-focused songs at FallFest.

What do you guys think? Should a public university be allowed to hire Christian rock bands (or music groups dedicated to ANY particular faith, for that matter) for official school events? Is that an appropriate and fair use of taxpayer funds? Does it send the wrong message to a student body with a large percentage of students who are of other faiths/no faith--a message that says, "You are not normal, and you are not welcome. Not really."

Tell me what you think.

(Cross-posted to the Lounge)

No it is not an appropriate and fair use of taxpayer funds.

I would have to have some more information to make a decision, like did they ask other bands who rejected the offer and is this band an alumni of the university. Also did the school set up some rules like they can only play secular music?

Also where does the money for this even come from, is it part of the school budget or does the school get sponsors to put it on.

No, they aren't alumni of our university (so far as I know.) The band is paid for with part of the money that all students pay, called a "Student Activity Fee"--in essence, with financial aid funds (which come out of the pockets of all American citizens, in the form of federal student aid.) There are no rules that I know of about "only secular songs"--in fact, they're being advertised within the University's student web hub as a "Christian rock band."

Are they ungrateful??

if they would consider hiring a Satanic rock band next year. On the principle of not discriminating against religion, you understand. Or maybe a "sky clad" Wiccan band.

Better still, ignore the event entirely and re-instate that infamous drunken block party. If enough people went to that I think it would get the message over that they either book a band that drunken students would like to listen to or they defeat the purpose of the Fallfest completely.

It may not be taxpayer money - it may be from an alumni fund or something else. There are lots of sources of funds for a university.

My main concern wouldn't be the source of funds, but the process for choosing the bands. Is there a student committee? No one's heard of these people? Sounds kinda fishy to me.

with part of our "student activity fee" money. This is taken out of our financial aid along with tuition.

I have no idea about the process, because the university is always so freaking secretive about it. They take great pains to keep it a secret. We only just found out who's going to be playing, and the concert is in a few days.

it loses its "taxpayer" identification. Even if state financial aid pays it.

The federal government gives the university taxpayer money for my education. The university then spends part of that money to hire and promote a Christian rock band. But somehow it isn't taxpayer money? It's the Big state university--everything there is publicly owned. How is that not using public funds?

Orielly went all ape shit because the University of Oregon newspaper published some Jesus cartoons and he was trying to pull the tax payer money trick but the newspaper is paid for by student activity fees so it does not receive tax payer money and he basically got the beat down.

How are they chosen?

Why are the bands paid? (Is there a gate charge for the festival?) Are other performers paid? How are the fees determined?

If the proselytizers are scrubbed from the line-up, will they still be paid per some contractual agreement? Who at the university created the contract? Is the contract a standard contract?

As for my opinion in this matter: I don't feel that public universities should be paying religious groups to do anything on campus. In fact, religious groups shouldn't exist on public schools. Period. They get tax exemptions for their properties, they can do their crap there.

when the rockin' "Hitler Youth" band is signed to play at what sounds like a really wussy gathering of little kids.

Screw 'em. Go to the real party and have a wonderful time.

how can you characterize their music?

no, tax payer money for religious music of any sort is out of line.

and then spent some time researching various interviews with the lead singer, listening to some of their stuff, checking lyrics, etc.

Apparently the lead singer is one of those "devoted convert" types--grew up non-religious, but is now super-religious.

He always did Christian songs and typically had a little testimony.

The issue is not whether they are a Christian band...because no one knows what that means. The issue is whether the concert has a religious theme, I would think.

Some of them were--not all. I have practically all of his albums, so I'm not pulling that out of my rear. There's a lot of gospel, but there's also a lot of perfectly secular stuff, and Johnny didn't advertise or identify *himself* singularly as a gospel singer. He was a country artist first and foremost.

Then again, Johnny Cash is/was a legend, so there would be an argument that the artistic and cultural merit of a Cash concert would outweigh any religious issues. I don't think that would apply to some little Christian rock group from Backwoods, Tennessee.

And ALWAYS testified at some point.

He was probably the most openly religious "star" of the last 50 years.

He always identified as a country artist, and the bulk of his music was solidly within the country genre. I'm rather a big fan of the Man in Black, as was my own father, so I'm perfectly familiar with his gospel stuff. It was part of him, of course, but not WHO he was. A gospel singer wouldn't have covered "Hurt" in a million years. Cash was much, much more than gospel.

It used to be "I wear this crown of shit." Changing it to "crown of thorns" doesn't make it "gospel", because there's nothing about praise--if anything, he's taking on the persona of Jesus in that statement, which is definitely a gospel no-no. I suppose he didn't think that saying "shit" did justice to the somber tone that he was going for. NIN's version was meant to be harsh and ragged. Johnny wanted a different tone, I think--and he got it.

And I should point out that you are all bent out of shape over whole in my hand, which is far weaker a religious image than crown of thorns.

I've seen Cash listed as everything from country to gospel to Christian to alternative. So, slapping a label on him is probably useless.

Anyway, a school can hire a Christian artist. What they can't do is promote a Christian event.

I see a big difference between a bill with
Rap Artist
Comedian
Juggler
Christian Rock Band
Rock Band
with beer

versus
Preacher
Choir
Christian Rock Band
Preacher
with Lord's Supper

doesn't get much more Christian than that, eh?

Sid

Give them a call and ask them if they think it is worth challenging. But be prepared to have them ask you if you are willing to be the lead plaintiff in any lawsuit.

That's simply outrageous, and I think the block party sounds much better.......

them more as worship services than concerts. The university should not have invited them,imo.

I went to meet girls.

I listened to everything, but I had some friends who were into Christian Rock. Some of it was ok. I liked Petra. It sounded like old Kansas albums to me. And the kids were just happy to hear "rock" music. And there would be a five minute section where they gave testimony. And then back to lasers and synthesizers.

In my world, it is 1988 forever.

:hide: very ashamed to admit that
there were a lot of kids in the audience with Iron Maiden & Judas Priest t-shirts so they had a good secular draw. no preaching there either, the singer even acknowledged that many in the audience just came to rock out.

And I knew how to play one of their hits on piano.

I have no shame in admitting that. They were the yellow and black attack.

Even "born again" Pat Boone sang Heavy Metal!

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/9325/patmetal.html

In any event, I'd invite every gay person I know (and that's a LOT of people) and do a semi-erotic dance in front of the stage during their set. If they make one anti-gay comment to the audience, have someone yank out the power cables to their amps, then nicely but firmly tell them to leave. Work out a reduced pay check later.

:)

I would also add, if they make any anti-secular comments (even in their lyrics) boo them until they leave.

Don't attack them, don't throw anything at them, just boo them until they leave.

Bring rainbow flags and signs comparing them to other religious groups like Fred Phelps and his cult.

Let them know under no uncertain circumstances that their hate will be tolerated at your public university.

Don't forget no matter what you do, there will be a video made of it and they will play their favorite role: victim.

Otherwise, someone somewhere will use the event as an example of Christian persecution. Plus, their music might not be all that bad. If it is, then an organizer can approach the band leader and request they play something a bit more mainstream and/or secular. If they refuse, or simply keep playing the same stuff, then pull the plug after a song, thank them, then recommend they leave the stage for the next act (I'd have a DJ nearby who can put on the kind of music everyone will immediately enjoy). Once really good music starts playing, the band will not have a leg to stand on once the crowd starts digging the new tunes. This will make it impossible for the band to continue or voice significant protest.

Quite simply, the guests and organizers were not satisfied with the product, which does not fulfill the contract... etc.

What if they hired whirling dervishes to dance? I suspect that, by virtue of them being tiny minority religious viewpoints, the perceived threat to the "wall of separation" would be greatly reduced.

The overall focus of the event isn't state sponsorship of a given faith, it's no more establishing or promoting a religion than, say, granting everyone off a week's vacation for Christmas. The government ends up spending all kinds of money on events where religion is mentioned.

This is Christian-centered music being played at a rather loud volume to a captive audience. Once you're "in" the event, you can't leave unless you leave to go home--so you either have to put up with the proselytizing music, or you miss out on everything else that comes afterward. I understand the reason for that rule (it keeps students from getting around the drink limit by going to local bars and then coming back to the event) but it precludes anyone from being able to get away from just *that* part of FallFest.

If it's offensive complain, or organize a complaint by several people. That's how a democracy works. Personally I don't find other people singing about a religion I don't hold to to be either offensive or a violation of the wall of separation, provided it's not the focus of the event.

My daughter's high school choir sings selections from a wide variety of world music traditions, but by far the most number of the religion-based songs come from sundry Christian traditions--everything from old Southern slave spirituals to medieval madrigals. They have an incredible range. But it's just music, not state support for a church. I'd be pretty pissed if someone complained and cut off this vital source of beautiful music for their choir director to draw from, religion being such an important focus of music from many religions around the world.

Again, my understanding is that we're talking about one set by one band from among several playing. If the focus was mostly a Christian prosyltyzing concert, it's inappropriate. My read is that it was just a day in the park with music. If I'm misuderstanding, my view could change to fit the facts.

I'm not being a pain in the ass, but I see nothing Christian in their music.

But I'll say it again--a direct mention of God or Jesus is not required. Their songs are interspersed with some rather obvious Christian imagery for those who look/listen carefully. I honestly don't think it would be as big of a deal, if not for the fact that the university is specifically promoting them AS a Christian rock band--which means everything that people might otherwise have ignored/not realized was Christian is going to a lot more obvious.

I'll be interested to see what songs they choose to play. And yes, I listened to several songs and read the lyrics for the entire album.

If they are just singing their crappy songs, I would say it isn't an issue. Let them sing their crappy pseudo-rock and watch the cause of Christianity be set back 50 years. But if they "preach" as part of their act, give sermons, read scripture, heal the sick etc., that's more of an issue, although traditionally colleges have a lot more leeway in this area than do public schools.

Good point.

Why are they not better known by the student body? Why would the student body pick this group? Did the student body pick this group?

Which really leads to two important questions: Who invited them? And how were they chosen?

They have a positive sound but I am not hearing anything about God or Jesus.

They get more gigs that way.

On their website they have their album and you can listen to it, I assume it's what they play at venues, they have some very subtle lyrics like something about can you walk on water, but nothing that if I did not know they were Christian would make me think they were.

Here are the lyrics to one:

Through The Fire

Walk in the flame again,
I'll be there to hold your hand,
Keeping you safe until the end
And when the flood begins,
I'll be there with you to stand,
Walking in faith until the end

I see you through the flood,
See you through the fire,
See you through the storms-a-raging.

Walking the darkest rain
I cover you by My name,
A shelter inside your world of pain
Step on the water's waves
Coming to me by faith
I am the light of better days

I see you through the flood,
I see you through the fire,
I see you thorough,
the storms are raging

Don't be afraid
I'll never leave you lying
Forever yours

Forever yours
Forever yours I am

-------

That song is rather obviously Christian/religous, or at least it is to me. :shrug:

But is it really about how blatant the lyrics are? Religious music is religious music--so long as it's identifiable. And they're being specifically promoted by the university as a "Christian rock band", so even if the references are vague, the fact that the attendees will know that this is a Christian band will make the references pretty obvious.

Bob Dylan - no in his Christian faze I may add - wrote more explicitly "religious" music.

I mean if these guys were singing Jesus, God, Sin, Repentance, Heaven and Hell I could say yeah but they are singing stuff that you have to dig the meaning out.

advertisements in its student web hub specifically advertising them as a "Christian rock band."

That kinda compromises the "But the lyrics aren't overt" argument, I think.

The poster is probably pushing things a tad, but I have hard time viewing this as an endorsement of religion.

Although, they might not sing it that way, it is posted that way on several places online.

Too Christian for a public university in my book.

to a Gospel Choir? I love Gospel music.

Thank God I went to a Jesuit University (Boston College). This wouldn't have been an issue. Sucky band vs. good band. Doesn't matter what their religious background was.

"Christian Rock" hardly means anything at this point. A lot of bands have bubbled up from that scene and gone mainstream because they just write good songs.

the scheduled concert performers include Daughtry, Lupe Fiasco, the Clarks, Heidi Newfield, and Day of Fire. If all of the performers were Christian bands, I would be with you (and I am a graduate of the university and a taxpayer in the state). But with Day of Fire as only one of five very different performers, I'm not concerned. (BTW, there will also be comedy with Mark Poolos and Jason Benci, a film festival featuring Hulk, Hellboy, and Iron Man, and a dance party with Fatman Scoop and DJ Cocoa Chanelle. Lots of entertainment choices in a busy evening!)

I'm actually more intrigued by the kind of crowd that will be interested in the rap stylings of Lupe Fiasco and the country twang of Heidi Newfield.

Freedom of fucking speech. Music falls under that. You don't like they're lyrics because they're christian? Tough shit. Same difference as the extremists on the other side complaining about lyrics they don't like.

It's a fucking band. Get a grip.

The part about not respecting an establishment of religion? Using public funds to hire and promote a religious rock band seems to be respecting that establishment to me.

And seriously--overreact much? "Get a grip?" Not a single part of my OP was nearly as frantic/biting/"ungripped" as your response.

It's outrages like that which give fodder to others to label us as wackos and against religion. It's insane in concept and I think it shows a sign of someone who is almost bigoted and intolerant towards religion.


On edit: God I fuckin loathe extremist zealots.

Oh, the irony...

Please, point it out for me. I'd LOVE to see your explanation behind that one.

in response to the calm tone of mine.

Surely you can see how it's a bit ironic to claim to "fuckin loathe extremist zealots" while posting in a form and tone that makes you sound exactly like one?...

Oh nevermind. You're about as likely to concede a point as a Repuke is to concede an election. Please, continue frothing and screeching at me as you will.

The last thing I am is a zealot.

Thinking it's offensive or against the constitution to have a christian rock band perform with a bunch of other bands at a university, is most definitely the sign of a zealot, as well as an ignoramus.

It seems by your replies you only wanted the ones that agreed with you about how faux-raged you should be. And as far as your money going where you don't want it to, welcome to adulthood. People make evil, stupid decisions and use our money to do it all the time. In the big picture, yours is a nonissue.

It's just music. No one is forcing anyone to listen to it and you're right that attacking this sort of thing is just re-enforcing the the idea that "Christian persecution" is a real threat.

There are so many things people say that are based on their religious/philosophical beliefs, it would be insane to try to stop people from saying them, and IMO, against the first amendment.

It says Congress shall pass no law respecting establishment of religion nor shall it prohibit the free exercise thereof. Are you being required to attend FallFest? Are you being forced to swear allegiance to Christ? Are your grades somehow dependent on agreeing with this band's message?

NO, NO, and NO.

Man, how easily offended we all are nowadays!

The question wasn't if they should be allowed to exist or perform, but if the use of state funds was appropriate given the establishment clause.

I think the fact that it is student activity fees means that it isn't a violation of the 1st Amendment. But if the University in general was paying for it, it might be a violation.

Is Campus Crusade for Christ a sponsor?

Because it evoked religious imagery, a strict interpretation of the "establishment clause", might forbid its playing in a government-funded venue.

If the band was a Satan worshiping one, it would be the Christians screaming foul over this. Recall the outrage over Marilyn Manson.

I'm just saying.

Here are the lyrics from their last album. I don't see one mention of God, let alone Jesus.

Love
From a shattered home…looking for an open door…
any way may be the way out…
a bleeding telephone…razorblade cuts on both arms
911 may be the way out…

Hey yeah… anybody hear now? Anyone at all?
Does anybody hear now? Have you come and gone?

With both heart strings torn…looking for true love and more…
Any day may be the day of…bruised and battered bones…
A broken heart an open sore…
911 may be the way of

Hey yeah…anybody hear now? Anyone at all?
Does anybody hear now? Have you come and gone?
Hey yeah…anybody hear now? Anyone at all?
Does anybody hear now? Have you come and gone?

Hear me when I scream!! Where is love?
Overtaking me!!! Where is love?
Screaming out in me!! Where is love?


-----------------------------------
Run
The race is running a pace that’s quicker
The clock tick ticking against
The world keeps turning…this house is on fire…
Won’t catch me sleepwalking again…

Running…said I’m running…I’m running…
I’m coming at you gunning…running…said I’m running against…
Running…said I’m running…I’m running
I’m coming at you gunning…running…said I’m running against…

Awake and running the distance quicker
This road is nearing the end
The wheel keeps turning…this heart is on fire…
I’m burning up high speed when I win…

---------------------------------------------------
HOLE IN MY HAND
See the marker stone, see the heavy load
See the burden on my head…hum…
See I can’t move in with my lantern gone
I need you only friend to shine in me
And I’m not afraid to show my heart
I’m not afraid to let you start in my life again

With a hole in my hand, and a strength to my stand
With a flame in my heart, burn in me again
With a hole in my hand, and a strength to my stand
With a flame in my heart, burn in me again
With a hole in my hand, with a hole in my hand…

See the ropes are long and they hold on strong
To tie me to the end…gone
See I can’t move on with my freedom gone
I need you only friend to set me free
And I’m not afraid to show my heart
I’m not afraid to let you start in my life again

---------------------------------------------
Frustrating
Everything you say is so
So predictable and small
I don’t want to hear you
Every conversation costs
Too much time that I have lost
Just by standing near you

When it gets so frustrating I just sing your song
Inside my head
It gets complicated I just sing your song
Inside my head

Everyone seems so sincere
Manipulated by the fear
Of the situation

And it’s time and time again
And it’s all that I can stand

and walking on water (in their song "Through The Fire", which you didn't post), but you don't see a mention of Jesus?

Alrighty then.

Hole in your hand? It's "hold your hand". The lyrics are only mildly religious- they could easily be interpreted other ways..... and aren't really offensive. It does say "faith" twice, but I lived thru reading it.


"Walk in the flame again
I’ll be there to hold your hand
Keeping you safe until the end
And when the flood begins
I’ll be there with you to stand
Walking in faith until the end

Chorus
I’ll see you through the flood
I’ll see you through the fire
I’ll see you through the storms raging

Walk in the darkest rain
I’ll cover you by my name
I’m shelter inside your world of pain
Step on the waters wave
Come unto me by faith
I am the light of better days

Chorus

Don’t be afraid I’ll never leave you
I am forever yours
Don’t be afraid I’ll never leave you
I am forever yours
Forever yours"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

and btw--having a christian rock band would bother me too. (but, i'm a zealot--you know, the type OMC was talking about! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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was the work of the devil!?


nothing cracks me up more than seeing 'christian' anything bands...
hacks who couldnt make it in the real bizz who decided to sell out to god.
the best are 'christian punk' bands.
what an oxymoron that is.

Michael W. Smith is a gazillionaire, but I am fairly certain he would have been a multi-multi gazillionaire had he gone the Michael Bolton route.

"Friends" is a staple at high school and college graduations and it has probably never been played on a mainstream station. If that song had ever appeared on, like, an episode of Silver Spoons or something...he would own Tennessee right now.

have a pretty big cult following.
that mite have contributed to his wealth.
working for god has its perks and all that jazz.

My mom likes him.

Sid

I have been for 35 years! IMO, student boards are set up by the college or university as a way to keep the trouble makers busy on various projects such as the Fall Fest, the Student Paper etc. If the trouble makers are busy plotting against each other, they leave the administration pretty much alone! If the students were given the option of paying a fee for the "services provided" that would be OK. I was a commuter student with a heavy academic schedule. The only thing I ever got out of my student fee was a free student newspaper full of sophomoric (literally) attempts to be controversial.

I don't disagree with you, and think this is inappropriate. If the band was sponsored by a frat, I still wouldn't like it, but I would have less of a problem with the LEGALITY of it.

:sigh:

You're aware of the downside of where you live. I would love to live in NC, but my life is much better in some ways in NJ.

Don't know how they do things at your school, but most colleges charge those fees and then disperse the money to various student groups, clubs, organizing committees, i.e., the student union, the student newspaper, the greek council, whatever. Are you sure that a state employee made the decision to hire the band? Even so, I think it is pretty borderline, especially because student fees are NOT public tax funds. Seriously, student fees often and legally get disbursed to recognized student groups with overt religious connections, the discrimination comes if only christian groups are ever recognized, or if there is bias in the awarding of funds.

it's music. Those who enjoy it will enjoy it. Those who don't will go away.

Christian music isn't my thing, and I'd probably not go to listen to the music. But I'd be fascinated if groups from other religions did their thing. Or a gospel choir. They really amaze me!

...this band at this particular function and since there are quite a few posts that use the hypothetical, how would people feel if the group http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Blue_%28duo%29">Prussian Blue were invited under the exact same circumstances (secretive selection process, using university funds, etc.)???


Yes, I am aware that I Godwinned the thread

But my being incredulous that you'd compare the two won out.

1) That the OP doesn't know how the groups are selected is not evidence that there was a secretive selection process. I am guessing the OP is just ignorant of how it is done.

2) The OP has made conflicting statements, first stating that they were hired with student activities funds, then stating that the university paid for it.

3) To equate a Christian rock band with a racist group is very offensive. If the OP is serious about their extreme stance on separation of church and state, then Prussian Blue would have an even greater right to perform (as their songs are not religious).

If the issue is that their music is distasteful, then just say so. Don't pretend this is about separation of church and state.

In response to your points:
It is, however, just as likely that the OP is able to do research and that the school doesn't care to have students knowing things that have been determined to be "none of their business". Something as inoffensive as which band will play at a public school shouldn't be behind some firewall of security. If the school has nothing to hide, why not just tell everyone?

I think you read that wrong. It was my understanding that how the festival is being funded is as mysterious as who picked the performers.

The neo-Nazi group I asked about is Christian; that's part of their beliefs (to have a pure, white nation and all that that entails).

Plus, it's only a hypothetical.

or what i have seen on their site that suggests anything about their religion. From what I gather, the only person they worship is Hitler. If you're on some neo-nazi list serv that states otherwise, please enlighten me. Google seems to have scrubbed all of their references to Jesus, God, or Christianity. I've skimmed all of their stupid lyrics, and can't find any references to religion at all.

Or are you not distinguishing between a Christian group and a group that (may or may not) have Christians in it? Does the separation of Church and State require that any person paid with public funds must not publicly belong to any religion?

...which, I suspect you already know the answer to.

As for Prussian Blue's religion, let's ask their mommie, eh?

Now, I'm no religion scholar, but why does Mommie Gaeda go to such lengths to make sure her detergent isn't "kosher"?

Certainly not all Christians check the kosherness of their soap, I seriously doubt the Gaedes self-identify as Muslim or Jewish. (Or Buddhist, or Hindu, or any other religion besides Christian).

It doesn't say that she makes sure her laundry detergent isn't kosher, it says that homemakers she corresponds with do. Surely, a group who's mother corresponds with people who avoid all things kosher is Christian by default? Have you looked at their lyrics? Half of their songs are about boy crushes and being sisters, and the other half are about "white pride"

If even slight, indirect references to Christianity are not allowed, why were there no protests when Switchfoot played at WVU? If that's the only non-reference reference you can find between Prussian Blue and christianity, then I think my point is made.

FWIW, most white supremacist don't hate jews because they "killed Jesus," but because they can more "easily taint the pure race" by blending in, or "passing" as white. Many white supremacists believe in a twisted version of Odinism, and those who claim to be "Christian" ascribe to a heretical, radicalized version of it ("Christian Identity")

To equate that brand of "Christianity" (only white people have souls) to that of Day of Fire is a tad offensive.

This whole thing seems to be more about anti-Christianity than about separation of Church and State. Had they had a Buddhist band playing, I am certain this thread would not exist.

You already convinced yourself of your point, what is the purpose of anyone else's comments?

It is common knowledge that White Nationalism is linked to Christian Identity-ers (?).

That does not mean that all Christians are neo-Nazis.

Nor does it mean that some Christian band (whatever coded name they use) is Prussian Blue. What I was asking (before you twisted the subject) was would it be acceptable if Prussian Blue were performing under the same circumstances.

There is no "legal" reason not to hire them though.

It would certainly be a bold choice.

I just wonder why a band few on campus had ever heard of were hired to entertain at an event paid for by tax dollars.

It would be interesting if someone could definitively answer the questions about how they were chosen, who made the final decision and how they're getting paid.

I don't even know the college we are talking about.

Maybe this band is popular in whatever town this is in.

I'm 34 and officially have no idea what these punk kids like these days. What the hell is Tapes and Tapes?

among certain circles. They've co-written songs with Chris Daughtry, and have previously and are scheduled to open for Daughtry six more times in the next two months, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were included as a package deal to get more exposure.

that Daughtery person and are you ready.....................................
























Nickelback.

I swear she was running a psyops on me, you know how many hours and then days of that shit i had to hear before i would break?

Daughtry is one of the most popular bands out today. Not necessarily the best, but very popular. As the headlining band of the event, its not surprising they'd have some say on their opening act.

cheap.

"She's a Nazi, George! A Nazi!"

"I know, I know. Kind of a cute Nazi, though."

If they're trying to keep kids there, it's best not to preach to them.

do students get federal financial aid for attending christian colleges?

If the stance is that any school that receives any kind of financial aid that might possibly hint at sort of endorsing a religious point of view, then how are religious colleges able to receive federal financial aid for their students?

...I found an article about how the tax-evaders lost another court case!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3781675&mesg_id=3781675

This will make it just a little bit harder for them to push their agenda down everyone's throats.

We'll get them one of these days!!!

Whoever hired them probably didn't even have a choice.

And, honest to God, if this show is in Nebraska or West Texas I am going to throw something. They are probably the most popular band in Nebraska. And in West Texas, people say grace at Burger King.

(They are playing Wayne State in September. And San Angelo later that month).

maybe because they're afraid that weirdo was taking a bath in the kitchen sink

if you want A, you have to take B.

i've never heard of chris daughtry anyway.

The First Amendment does not allow the state to discriminate based on religion. SCOTUS has consistently ruled that the State must be neutral in order to follow the 'free exercise' clause of the 1st Amendment. To hire only non-religious bands would not be neutral.

do-able to start yet another "party" with the kind of music appropriate for all(except the ones attracted to the christian music of course)

Stepping aside from the potential church/state issues here (I'm not a lawyer, but if the only evangelical aspect is the band, that line of argument looks a little thin), press on the more obvious issue:

If the goal of FallFest is to provide a more constructive alternative to DrunkenBrawlFest, then you need entertainment that draws people in. Sponsoring pet favorites of organizing committee members that don't do this kill the Fest, whether they're Christian Rock, Hip-Hop, Death Metal, or Polka. If it's a drag, if they're not enjoying themselves, people will leave. Count on it. And then you've defeated the whole purpose of your Fest.

The government (which by extension includes a public university because of its public funding) shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof.

Of course a public university can hire a religious rock band! The school is not requiring any kind of religious litmus test in order to graduate. The school is not coercing anyone to join, belong, or express allegiance to any religion. No one is being required to attend FallFest. And to deny this band solely on the basis of its religious music would be the government prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

So you are really being overly whiny and picky about something that is really not a big issue.