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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 07:35 AM
Original message
Russia: Poland risks attack because of US missiles
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ie3N_5xk8Z20qcSJG0MilftDpsLwD92IM3NG0

1 hour ago

MOSCOW (AP) — An agreement that will allow the United States to install a missile defense battery in Poland exposes the ex-communist nation to an attack, a Russian general said Friday.

Poland and the U.S. struck a deal on Thursday to deepen military ties and place a missile interceptor base in Poland.

Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy chief of the Russian general staff told reporters Friday that the agreement exacerbates U.S.-Russian relations that are already tense because of fighting between Georgian and Russian forces. He said the deal "cannot go unpunished."

And in the strongest threat Russia has issued in reaction to plans to put elements of a missile defense system in former Soviet satellite nations, the Interfax news agency quoted Nogovitsyn as saying Poland was risking attack.

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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. How well does this shield
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 08:04 AM by MUAD_DIB
defend against cruise missiles or advancing Russian troops?


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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I have a feeling we are about to find out real soon
It doesn't look good.

Don
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MUAD_DIB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I hope your intuition is dead wrong.

I sometimes find myself up at in the wee hours in the morning. The day after was playing on the SciFi channel. Coincidence?
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Gasoline on a fire
W is really dangerous.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'd push further
I'd fast track Ukraine into NATO. Russia's government has always only respected strength and aggression. I don't want to goad them into a war, but the minute you back off, they take that as a weakness and strike.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Do you think Russia could hurt us real bad in Iraq and Afghanistan if they wanted to?
If we start supplying missiles to Russia's enemies won't they reciprocate?

We would.

Shit we have before.

Don
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I don't think they could hurt us bad in the short term
Militarily, Russia's strength is in infantry and artilery and even then it's strength is simply in numbers. Our equipment is better, our troops are better, our training is better, and our tactics are better. And we would achieve air superiority on them in a short time.

If either side was insane enough to start a hot war on the ground, we would ultimately handle the Russians - though at a pretty big cost for both sides.

And they ain't exactly in the business of selling arms to Muslim terrorists these days, considering that those arms have a really good chance at being used against them. As Chechnya has proved, Russia has a "Muslim Problem" that is approximately 1,000 times larger than the one facing the US.

Where Russia can hurt us is with Iran and with China.

They can easily create a well-funded, well-protected, and nuclear Iran.

And they can continue to strengthen an alliance with China that could conceivably alter the balance of power in the world.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. When did the Iraqis become Muslim terrorists
After we invaded and occupied their country perhaps?

Don
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm not making a judgment one way or the the other
Christ, this place is exhausting.

All I said was Russia is not going to pump weapons willy-nilly into the Middle East, because there is a great chance that those weapons show up in theaters in Moscow.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. boy o boy
We need to be all out for what ever necessary to keep us from getting into a war with russia until we have done something with the paint sniffing crazy assed bushco, either run out the clock or incarcerate them. They're as loony as a loon and will get us all killed. There is no one in their mal-administration that has a first graders grasp of what diplomacy is. bush/cheney only see problems as nails and only they have the hammer.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Scoop Jackson Democrat I see...
There always were Democratic and Republican Cold Warriors.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Jack Kennedy Democrat
Do you think JFK would just let Russia annex Georgian territory and threaten Ukraine and Poland?
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. "An Iron Curtain has descended..."
Winston, is that you?

Russia hasn't annexed anything.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I read the news
TBILISI, GEORGIA — Russian officials said Thursday that the Georgian government will not regain control over two breakaway provinces that are at the center of a weeklong military conflict, as the Kremlin issued an uncompromising response to U.S. and Western threats over its military incursion deep into the territory of its tiny neighbor.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/5944873.html
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Which was the status quo before the brutal Georgian attack. n/t
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. In the best case scenario
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 08:49 AM by theboss
I don't trust Russia just to remove its troops and put things back the way they were. It's never been a country that likes to give up territory it's "conquered."
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Remember: Russia is still hoping to win the trust of Europe...
If nothing else, that will mitigate Russian actions.

Russia is regaining world status, not by it's military, but by its natural gas and oil sales.

The US will be going on a PR blitz to try to convince Europe to get its energy elsewhere.
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. It's going to win trust by threatening Poland?
Putin is long through with playing the make nice game. Europe pretty much either has to buy its oil from Russia now, or go nuclear like France.

This is gangster politics.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. We're moving antimissile batteries into Poland. This enhances our First Strike capabilities...
Did you expect Russia to say "Thank you Sir, I want another" ?
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theboss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. No, I don't
But Putin has been getting bolder for years now.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Poke a Bear with a stick over and over...
and it will get just as bold as needed.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. How many conquering nations have?
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. The Russians are making him look sane
With the Russians running round invading people and making threats, the Polish missles seem reasonable.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Would Russian ICBMs in Cuba be reasonable too?
Because thats what we are likely to get out of this.

Don
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Wouldn't a US invasion of Cuba be "reasonable" under those circumstances then?
:shrug:
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. The US already occupies Cuba
Forget?

Don
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Hard to forget something that is not true. nt
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Not to me
But maybe to the Russians.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
23. Russia needs to fuck off.
They're making the missle plan look reasonable.
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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
27. This one is on Russia.
Edited on Fri Aug-15-08 09:26 AM by kiva
From the NYT article:

The deal reflected growing alarm in a range of countries that had been part of the Soviet sphere, about a newly rich and powerful Russia’s intentions in its former cold war sphere of power. In fact, negotiations dragged on for 18 months — but were completed only as old memories and new fears surfaced in recent days.

Those fears were codified to some degree in what Polish and American officials characterized as unusual aspects of the final deal: that at least temporarily American soldiers would staff air defense sites in Poland oriented toward Russia, and that the United States would be obliged to defend Poland in case of an attack with greater speed than required under NATO, of which Poland is a member.

Polish officials said the agreement would strengthen the mutual commitment of the United States to defend Poland, and vice versa. “Poland and the Poles do not want to be in alliances in which assistance comes at some point later — it is no good when assistance comes to dead people,” the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, said on Polish television. “Poland wants to be in alliances where assistance comes in the very first hours of — knock on wood — any possible conflict.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/world/europe/16poland.html?hp

Seems pretty clear that the Polish government is looking east, and doesn't like what it sees.

Edit to make the @&$*%$ quote work.
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MadrasT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
31. 100%
"'Poland, by deploying (the system) is exposing itself to a strike — 100 percent,' Interfax quoted Nogovitsyn as saying."

Doesn't get much more cut & dried than that.

:kick:
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