School district enables staff to carry firearms

I didn't feel the actual title of the article was very accurate, since individual teachers and staff members who want to carry will still have to be state-certified concealed carry permit holders as well as get permission from administration first. Not exactly just letting anyone and everyone carry pistols at will. Just read the actual requirements. They are those two plus they must have training in crisis management and hostile situations as well as carry ammunition designed to reduce the hazard of ricochet in the hallways (and I'm guessing overpenetration, they go hand in hand)

I think this is a neat developement, I highly doubt that this policy will ever be tested as good or bad, it will probably be forgotten about soon. They seem to have a solid set of requirements for staff to fulfill before they can carry.


http://www.star-telegram.com/news/story/834022.html

"Small Texas school district lets teachers, staff pack pistols
By MARK AGEErmagee@star-telegram.com

To deter and protect against school shootings, trustees have altered district policy to allow employees to carry concealed weapons if they have a state permit and permission from the administration. The 110-student district lies 150 miles northwest of Fort Worth on the eastern end of Wilbarger County, near the Oklahoma border.

Superintendent David Thweatt said a main concern was that the small community is a 30-minute drive from the sheriff’s office, leaving students and teachers without protection.
Thweatt said the district did not rush into the decision. Officials researched the policy and weighed other options for about a year before trustees voted on the policy in October.

"The naysayers think won’t happen here," he said. "If something were to happen here, I’d much rather be calling a parent to tell them that their child is OK because we were able to protect them."
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The gun policy Teachers and staffers in the Harrold school district can carry firearms beginning this fall if they:

Have a Texas license to carry a concealed handgun.

Are authorized to carry by the district.

Receive training in crisis management and hostile situations.

Use ammunition that is designed to minimize the risk of ricochet in school halls.

Source: Harrold school district

Please be aware that DU copyright rules require that excerpts of copyrighted material be limited to four paragraphs.

I can see the headlnes now, students gang up on the gun toting teacher/staff, disarm and shoot him/her/them in the head. Blackwater subsidiary arrives and proceeds to execute all students.

Does anyone else think this is nuts?

:dunce:

Are they anything even remotely resembling a group of prison inmates?

False dilemma.

If a damn prison guard does not carry a weapon when amongst the inmates then WHY the hell should a TEACHER be allowed to do it??

It's a school ffs.

Maybe you would have gotten it if I used the :sarcasm:

and prison inmates who have a habit of shanking and beating people, then I think I can fairly reccomend that you go get yourself evaluated, you may not be fit for life in general society. Either that or you need to stop watching american history x and get thee to some small rural schools and some prisons so you can maybe learn the difference. :dunce:

Gee, how long before some enterprising student figures out how to pick a gun up from a locked drawer, or a purse, or where ever the teacher has stashed it? Not very long at all, and then watch all hell break lose.

Bullets that minimize ricochet? You mean like hollow points? Another great idea:puke:

Sorry, but this insane madness, driven by a gun industry that is capitalizing on fear to whip people up into a frenzy and thus buy more of their products, arming everybody. Fear, fear, fear, nothing but.

Meanwhile the rest of us get to reside in an increasingly armed camp, whether we want to or not.

The policy is to allow concealed C-A-R-R-Y, not distribution of firearms. Tell me exactly how a concealed firearm carried on the body of a teacher could possibly be stolen out of a locker or desk? Or did you just not even bother to read anything but GUN! SCHOOL! TEACHERS!?

Actually leaves their gun in their holster, on their body, at all times? Right, shows how long you've carried a holstered weapon at one time. Or how much you know about human nature.

I don't care what model holster you're carrying, having it on, day in, day out, chafing you while you are doing everything from writing on the blackboard to officiating a basketball match on the playground, I suspect that yes indeed, there will be many teachers who will take off the weapon and stash it in someplace they mistakenly think is safe. In fact most women I know who conceal carry usually do so in their purse to begin with, and where does that purse go during class? Oh, yeah, in a drawer, or closet that may or may not be locked, and even if it is, school locks are easy to pick, as any student with "unusual talents" knows.

Phys ed. teachers, music teachers, industrial arts teachers, all of these and more would have a tough time keeping a gun on their person while they are working. That pick and roll could turn into a pick and PULL real quick.

And even if the teacher does keep the gun on their person, you honestly think that the students wouldn't notice, and wouldn't figure out who is carrying concealed? Shows how much you've been around kids, they notice everything. And once student knows who's got a gun, well, sadly there are those students who would be motivated to get such a gun:shrug:

Sorry, but allowing guns into schools is just asking for trouble. Not only is it dangerous and potentially lethal, but it teaches our children the wrong message, to be unreasonably fearful of life, and to deal with that fear with full out deadly force. What a wonderful lesson to instill in our future generations:puke:

and I'm good to go. I've been carrying about six months now, and while not always the most comfortable, it isn't so bad I just give up altogether.

And I think with not only their jobs but potentially the lives of their students riding on it I'm quite sure any teacher going through that amount of training and background checks probably takes carrying quite seriously.

Besides, according to all the gun safety I know(which is a fair amount) I always thought it was a no-no to tuck a gun into your waistband:shrug:

And if you think that bulge on the 9mm Glock or your S&W .38 will just magically disappear like that computer simulation, I've got lots of magic beans to sell you.

Also, if you think that every single person who gets CCW training is taking conceal carry seriously, I'm got a magic cow to go with those beans.

And again, what are those teachers, like coaches and etc. I mentioned above, going to do with their gun? You never answered that one, nor addressed the values that CCW in the classroom is teaching are children.

Oh, and one other thing, with violent crime rates going down, with the likelihood of needing that gun being virtually nil, what is the fucking point, other than pandering to a select group of the hyper-fearful? Gee, these people survived just fine for years and decades and centuries without guns in the classroom, I think that they can survive just fine for the next years, decades, centuries.

It used to be that we put the hyper fearful and hyper paranoid into mental institutions to get them help, now we're actually pandering to their fantasies:puke:

sin't exactly the same as just "tucking it into my waistband". Sure it's in my wasitband, secured by a high quality made to order hybrid leather/kydex holster and a made to order high quality gun belt, and it keeps the pistol nicely secured against my waist. Unless I am a teacher who plans on squeezing on my students regularly I don't understand how it would be an issue. As far as women teachers go, well, there are carry options out there for anyone and everyone, and women are no different. FIST-inc even has a line of holster styles designed specifically for the feamle carrier.

Hyper-fearful like the kids at Virginia Tech or Columbine? How about the congregation at the New Life Church in Colorado? I'm not sure where you are coming from, there are violent sociopaths in the world, they do exist, they have shown their willingness to attack others time and again, and here you are claiming that carrying a pistol at all is teaching children poor values. Sorry dude but concealed carry doesn't teach children a damn thing, because while they certainly know the new school policy, they probably don't know which teachers carry. Besides, I have said what the concealed carrying teachers are going to do with their guns, they are going to have them available in the extremely rare but extremely catastrophic event that someone does come in and try to shoot up the school.

There have been tragic incidents like VT and Columbine for years and decades now. They are a statistical rarity, always have been, always will be. The likelihood that you will be involved in such an incident is somewhere between snowball in hell and nil. Reacting to a miniscule threat with CCW is really quite paranoid. Thanks, but I don't think that we need to be teaching our kids paranoia, after all, look what happened when our government pushed fear in the wake of 911, we lost a good chunk of our Constitution(and gee, wasn't the 2nd amendment supposed to guarantee the rest of the Constitution? Good luck with that)

CCW is over-reacting, and if you can't see that, then I suggest that you work your way back to reality. In fact preparing for the most minute of situations is generally considered to be a textbook definition of paranoia:shrug:

As far as your fine holster there goes, yes, it is noticeable, your students would know that you carry, and if this generation of students are learning as many extracurricular activities as I did during my formative youth, then they will know how to get that gun out of your holster faster than you can react, and perhaps without you even knowing it.

Sorry, while I own guns and have no problem with them, I do have a problem with CCW. To me it exemplifies the overblown paranoia that has infected our country, and it is lethal, chickenshit, overreaction to a problem.

I think you have a problem with CCW because you don't feel like admitting that it can help individuals survive the occasional catastrophic event.

The worst mass murder killing at a school in history. It happened over eighty years ago. Like I said, these events have occurred throughout our history, and they are, statistically speaking, quite rare.

I have a problem with CCW because it is playing into the paranoid fantasies of a bunch of people who are now armed. Hmm, armed and paranoid, never a good combination. I also quite frankly think that CCW is a chickenshit way to carry. If you are carrying to discourage people from attacking you, at least be honest and up front about it and carry openly. But nooooo, you must carry in secret. Hmm, paranoid, armed and a chickenshit. Not a good combination in any person.

Gee, what did we do all those years and decades when we didn't have CCW. Oh, yeah, we lived, thrived and survived. One doesn't need armament in order to do that.

Does that one get a gun, too?

I'm not sure that being a teacher means one should be armed in a school. Some teachers abuse their grading pen. A gun? That could get ugly. Would we then have grand jury investigations to determine if it was a "good shooting" by the teacher?

Bad idea, all the way around.

Use metal detectors. Use X rays. But keep the guns out of the school.

they are 30 minutes away from the nearest law enforcement presence, and the policy is not to give a pistol to every incoming teacher and require them to carry it.

If you'll notice, the requirements are a state concealed carry permit (already narrows the field considerably, and means the individual has far more vetting than an average teacher), training in crisis management and hostile situations, must carry proper ammunition, and have permission from the administration. Thats a pretty solid set of requirements.

Right?

They mentioned hiring security guards, etc. - good idea! Someone mentioned x-ray machines or metal detectors...fine.

Self defense classes, mace, pepper spray even a TASER is preferable.

So how much more stringent are the requirements to carry a concealed weapon than they are for just standard permit and can anyone guarantee 100% that there will be no accidental or unwarranted shootings?

Hiring a security guard means they are firing a teacher, and they probably already have to little resources to begin with.

Metal detectors are a great way to keep students from brining weapons in, but that is not the same issue that is dealt with by having people capable of armed responseon the premises. And show me the metal detector capable of preventing a nutball intent on murder-suicide from entering the building? Sure they can catch regular students sneaking things in but that isn't the catastrophic event they are addressing by allowing CC.

And in most states of the union there is no permit to buy or own a gun, though there is a National Instant Criminal System background check done at the point of sale before money changes hands (unless the gun was bought from someone in another state, then if you fail the background check the seller is getting their gun back and the two of you have to work out something monetarily) and before the buyer can take possession of the firearm. The permits are to carry the gun concealed, usually the state police conduct the investigation, more crimes and issues will prohibit someone from getting a carry permit than will cause them to be denied a gun sale.

Your rationale (which I might add, is primarily promoted by rightwingers) does not hold water. If you want someone to guard the premises, RENT a police officer, who is trained to do what he or she does.

Teachers make more than police, so it makes more sense that way, too.

Besides, you want to know who will want to bring a gun to school? It will be those crazy, rightwing nuts who already terrorize students for not backing the war in Iraq, and such. The nuttiest teachers will be the ones who want to pack heat.

Dumb idea.

not much in the way of fact. Thank you for your opinion, which is worth exactly what I paid for it.



Did you stop to think that a 110 student district probably can't afford to hire on anyone else? And what is the difference between hiring an armed security guard and just making a few teachers armed security guards? Sorry but I don't think the school wants to give up arts and crafts when they can just have a process to allow the teachers to carry at work. Cost efficient, no new staff members, and trust me, as a former student of a 98 K-12 school, everyone and their parents know ALL the teachers.

Or, please. Provide solid evidence that "every week some teacher is caught in bed with a student." :eyes:

Not that I think teachers should be armed. As a teacher, I don't.

I don't think we need to put up more walls of distrust between teachers and the general population.

I don't think it's my role to play soldier or cop with my students.

I wish more schools would allow this.

And airlines too.

Israel began the program of armed citizen guards in the schools after the Maalot massacre in the 1970s, when a large number of children were slain in a terrorist incident. The volunteer parents work in plain clothes, armed with concealed semi-automatic pistols, and are trained by Israel’s home guard. It is significant that in the more than a quarter century between Maalot and the incident mentioned above when the citizen guards shot down the terrorist in the school in 2002, not a single child was murdered in an Israeli school!

The reason is that Israel wisely publicized the fact that the civilian volunteer guards, indistinguishable from the regular teaching and administrative staff, would be in place. It served as a tremendously effective deterrent. No Moslem fanatic who wants to go to Allah as a successful warrior who has slain many infidels visualizes himself making the trip after having been shot down by some geriatric with a gun before completing his mission. Any head trip as arrogant as that of a self-styled martyr cannot tolerate the thought of an ignominious death at the hands of an ordinary victim. It would be like a wolf picturing its own throat being torn out by a sheep: simply unthinkable, and therefore a natural deterrent.
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob81.html

Do you have a steady career? We could really use someone in a paid position spreading bias and stereotypes. And then you wonder why certain states don't vote our way...

I think a lot of it is rooted in projection.

An issue that will probably travel thru the courts until it reaches the Texas Supremes. I'm sure there are several other school districts waiting in the wings to hear whether they can deploy the same policies.

Any school that far from support and that small (low-budget) needs to have some sort of contingency plan, and in their case, hiring a cop or rent-a-cop isn't feasible. So they do the next best thing, allow teachers who have (on their own dime) gone through enough training to act as super-last resort contingency guards. Better than calling police since they will not only be on scene already, they will also have a vested interest in successfully repelling an attack (they don't wanna die) as well as the personal connection with their students they would be protecting.

Really slim chance of this type of "insurance" policy being needed, but the returns are enormous.