Do you believe in God?

In light of tonight's spectacle of the collision of religion and politics, I'm curious where DUers stand on this question.

...is always: "Define God."

...then you belong under "not in any way resembling the Judaeo/Christian tradition".

...not all Judaeo Christians assume the person who is asking the question is Judaeo Christian.

But doesn't the existence of the 3rd answer strongly imply the definition under consideration?

But if you like, I will define God thusly: An omnipotent and/or omnipresent being who is in some way responsible for the creation of all that exists and has an interest in the behavior and beliefs of humanity(*). That's the God I'm asking about. If you do not believe in Him but do believe in Vishnu, Pan, Mother Earth, et al., please choose the "non-Judaeo/Christian" option. Any belief in human or demigod prophets is inconsequential to the question I am asking.

(* I'll define humanity as including Homo Sapiens and Homo Neandethalensis but not Homo Erectus. )

I vote for #3 and #4.

if you were God, would you sit around and obsess about that?

According to most contemporary evangelical Christians, the sole deciding factor of whether you spend all eternity in unimaginable paradise or unimaginable agony is whether or not you've accepted Jesus as your personal savior.

Which brings up the interesting paradox in that Hitler, being a good Christian, made it into heaven but the 6 million jews he killed are all suffering in hell.

Sweet chocolatey outside, warm creamy, marshmallowy inside... oh, wait.. those are Smores...

:hi:

... some ONE that transcends all time and space and is the very essence of existence itself?



Yup.


... but not some cartoonish bearded "person" sitting on a cloud. Nope.
... but not some bizarre anthropomorphism. Nope.

And I believe Jesus died for my sins.

:hide:

why believe that one and not the many dozens of other exactly like it . . . before this one?

concept for concept out of the Egyptians' Osiris myth and the monotheistic pharaoh Akhenaten's Aten myth, This crap had been rattling around the middle east for at least three thousand years before the Hebrews made up their version of this witless garbage.

presumably -- before they were corrupted --- as a kind of theater to teach various
truths of life and nature.

The "Jesus" myth gotten put into writing --- although only 3% of the citizens could
read at the time --- and they were religious scholars.

Looks like an attempted rebuttal to the violent "god" of the Old Testament --

Old Testament being organized effort to cement the patriarchy.

and his name was Jesus and he was a product of the sky god raping and impregnating up a mortal. Oh, and he's coming back aaaany day now. What's so hard to believe about that? :sarcasm:

A cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so that he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magic tree?

They stole THAT?! It does have kind of an Anne Rice feel to it I guess. More believable than e-meters and space-faring DC-8s.

now spiritual discipline, like Zen, makes some sense. But that is not a religion as there is no godhead.

Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson put it best:

1. In the Beginning Man created God; and in the image of Man created he Him.

2. And Man gave unto God a multitude of names, that he might be Lord over all the earth when it was suited to Man.

3. And on the seven millionth day Man rested and did lean heavily on his God and saw that it was good.

4. And Man formed Aqualung from the dust of the ground, and a host of others likened unto his kind.

5. And these lesser men did Man cast into the void. And some were burned; and some were put apart from their kind.

6. And Man became the God that he had created and with his miracles did rule over all the earth.

7. But as all these things did come to pass the Spirit that did cause Man to create his God lived on within all men: even within Aqualung.

8. And Man saw it not.

9. But for Christ's sake, he'd better start looking.

From the Aqualung sleeve. I hadn't read it in years though, thanks for reminding me.

I have no problem accepting that there are forces greater than me--I accept gravity, having fallen on my behind from time to time; and I have no problem accepting that there are intelligences greater than mine operating in the universe, having read Shakespeare and listened to Beethoven. But I reject, out of lack of proof and necessity, the idea of some Creator/policeman figure, who can create the fathomless depths of the multitudes of galaxies perceivable to lowly man, yet gives a damn what any of us eat or who we sleep with, that is immeasurably greater than anything we can empirically witness, but nonetheless expects our adulation and praise as if it would matter, and that talks to chosen persons and lets them dictate to others who to love--and hate, and what to despise--or give money to. Which leaves me on the "Godless" side.

(Edit: I "accept" gravity--not "except" it. Although, if it "excepted" me, I could fly. And I would like that.)

There's nothing I don't love about your response.

eternal damnfurmation for it. If Gawd isn't even as good as my parents, then screw him.

I kinda spiritualism in general annoying.

Different people have believed in lots of gods.

Honestly, you guys think I'm talking about Dionysus here? Do I really need to say "Do you believe in Yaweh or a sufficiently Yaweh-like powerful creator-being?" Especially when one of the options was "not in a traditional Judaeo/Christian God"? Is that not sufficient context?

That's a general "you", of course, because lots of people make that fundamental mistake. While Christianity may have grown out of Judaism, its conception of God has as much to do with the Jewish conception of G-d as, say, Slipknot does with Chuck Berry. But hey, they're both rock 'n' roll, right?

(And no, option three does NOT suffice, for many, many conceptions of divinity. It's the "Other" of the religion question, and this would be me, the Pagan, expressing my profound irritation at it again.)

...my concept of God, infinity, and the divine continues to be challenged and shaped on a routine basis.

Never stop learning.

If not, I highly recommend it.

If it ever appears at my library, I'll try to watch it ---

Our view of and relationship with these dieties is far different then anything resembling the Abrahamic religions.

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having nothing to do with a sky "god."

or vice versa

So I don't know if any God/Goddess exists.

life moves on without us just like it did before we were born and will after we die. Our time on this earth will pass quickly. Make the most of it for ourselves and for those who come after us.

There are a lot of them, you know.

Zeus, Krishna, Inanna...sure.

Jeff the God of Biscuits...not so much.

I've got several in my posse. Most of them are goddesses.

It might be an intriguing idea to think there's some Supreme Being that kicked it all off, but there are far too many people in your face saying, There is, There is a God. It makes the subject unpleasant.

But even if it were worth it to entertain the idea of a God, the so-called "believers" don't stop there. They insist on telling you all about God, that God has gender, that God has a plan for humanity, that God punishes ordinary people for fairly trivial offenses. It goes on and on. No, thank you.

claiming that there certainly is or certainly is not a God as to why there must or must not be one that satisfied the questions that I have.

i wish the human race and all you people who didn't answer "no" would just WAKE THE FUCK UP ALREADY!

you're completely fucking things up for EVERYONE, and it's really starting to piss some of us off.

The whole point of separation of church and state that the RW seems to miss is that the pious are protected as much as the non-religious when we keep religion out of politics.

I think Barack Obama acquitted himself well tonight, btw.

As for my personal beliefs, I think the Divine is capable of taking many forms in order to communicate with us or simply to amuse Itself.

Hekate

Do they stay up all night in little ant dorms dissecting where ****HE**** wants them to tunnel next and arguing whether his evil is nature or nurture?

There is a great deal beyond our ken. We know that because we keep learning new and surprising things. Like those ants, we tend to look for explanations that fit our current frame of reference, forgetting that frame of reference once excluded electricity and comfy slippers.

I don't know what's "out there." I don't feel a need to know. A lot of people do, though, and I believe it is that need to know, that fear of the unknown, that causes people to invent a truth that gives them an anchor within their frame of reference. That's why two people reading the same old book can see nearly diametrically opposed pictures of the same mythical being. The father figure of their religion frequently reflects their view of fathers/authorities in their experience. Reading the same words, some see a stern, vengeful God with a seriously bad temper, someone to submit to and to obey out of fear, while others see a benevolent, loving being who asks above all that we also love each other.

In the end, the idea of a Big Daddy in the Sky seems kind of silly and sad to me. As for those who believe in an all powerful deity, my feelings about them depend on what shape this religion takes. If it gives them hope and comfort and inspires them to be better, kinder people, good for them! If it is something they use as a bludgeon to control others, they can kiss my ass.

That's defined as a delusion.

Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact

{1} "Truth is God." -- Gandhi

{2} "To see the universal and all-pervading Spirit of Truth face to face, one must be able to love the meanest of creation as oneself. And a man who aspires after that cannot afford to keep out of any field of life. That is why my devotion to Truth has drawn me into the field of politics; and I can say without the slightest hesitation, and yet in all humility, that those who say that religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion means." -- Gandhi

The beauties of religion need to be saved from both the true believers and the trendy atheists, argues compelling religious scholar James Carse.


http://www.salon.com/books/atoms_eden/2008/07/21/james_carse/index.html

Nondualism is the reality. We cannot be objective of that to which we belong.

Now, deep down I do not. I certainly do not believe in the Christian God or the God he was drawn from. I can not say with certainty there is nothing else beyond this life or that there isn't some mystical force beyond our comprehension. I believe religion can be good as a societal glue and to keep some people on track. When I was very young I was taught to believe in the Christian God and in my early years I did. When I got older and went searching for the real face of God I found man made myths and empty rituals in all societies.

I think some Christian values are sound, like treat others as you would like to be treated. Too bad this is rarely often practiced except towards those in their particular sect or towards their "friends" whom they approve of. I think religion and the idea of God have value when they promote and increase empathy for mankind.

On the other hand, I don't think belief in a God is essential to teaching; empathy and conscience.

The Mental Health of Jehovah's Witnesses
JOHN SPENCER M.B., Ch.B., M.R.C.Psych.1

1 Consultant Psychiatrist, Heathcote Hospital, Applecross 6153, Western Australia

The function of religion in human society is complex. The part played by religion in psychiatric disorders is even more obscure. Previous literature and theories are divided into two groups: one school believes that intense religiosity is a symptom-complex indicative of psychiatric disorder, while the opposing view is that religions belief in some way acts as a defence mechanism protecting the individual and his psyche.

The present study of 50 Jehovah's Witnesses admitted to the Mental Health Service facilities of Western Australia suggests that members of this section of the community are more likely to be admitted to a psychiatric hospital than the general population. Furthermore, followers of the sect are three times more likely to be diagnosed as suffering from schizophrenia and nearly four times more likely from paranoid schizophrenia than the rest of the population at risk.

These findings suggest that being a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses faith may be a risk factor predisposing to a schizophrenic illness. Further studies would be interesting in investigating whether pre-psychotic people are more likely to join the sect than normal people and what part (if any) membership has in bringing about such a breakdown.
Submitted on June 10, 1974

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/126/6/556
-----------------------------------------------------

Jesus loves me, this I know...'cause the voices tell me so.

"Conversations With God" (the entire set) I have come to the belief that organized religion is not the best way to understand Creation and the Creator behind it. Our understandings and theologies are simply too narrow and immature. I do believe in "God" but the nature and intelligence of that entity is beyond my ability to contain and I must accept that and live as moral and principled life as I am able at this moment and to learn how to expand all that for the next moment. I refuse to define a spirit.
I also believe that it is time to start taking responsibility for the things that we human beings do and stop blaming "God" for our misbehaviors.
:7 O8)

I'm also voting Obama for president and a straight democratic ticket in all other races.

A (political) party is like a religion, it straitjackets your mind.
--Jack Kevorkian

I'm a Christan seeking social justice and a return to a america that controls the bloody excesses of corporate capitalists raiders.

I'm for universal health coverage. I'm for lifting the cap on social security taxes so Bill Gates and others can pay their fair share.

I believe the fairness doctrine must be reinstated to stop the fascist propaganda that floods the airwaves and brainwashes people into voting against their own interests.

I seek an america that would not invade a sovereign nation that hasn't attacked us first. I believe in an american military with no mercenary groups like Blackwater mixed in.

I'm for killing all tax cuts for oil companies and starting a windfall profits tax on the same that would be used to fund research into solar, wind and other clean forms of energy.

I'm for getting out of Iraq yesterday.

So you tell me, is there any room in the democratic party for me?

NT!

Until the democratic party (and all of humanity) evolves beyond it's need for imaginary gods there is room for you. Your causes are noble yet,for whatever reason, you handicap yourself with the Cross.
-----------------------------------

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of
Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced
one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion?
To make half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."
--Thomas Jefferson

(No personal offense intended)

It's all just random madness, people.

Like "people are evil because Satan is in their lives". No...people do heinous things because they're deathly frightened or insecure or just plain sociopathic due to not learning to share when they were toddlers. I'm sick of the whole "manifest destiny" and humans thinking they're superior to other species--or even other humans--because "God" has smiled upon them. I'm sick of humans killing, maiming, subjugating other cultures because of some shadowy Authority figure who's bestowed the privilege on them--an authority no one's supposed to question.

No, I don't believe in God, and if we were all honest with ourselves, we'd admit we don't have any real information as to why we're here or how we got here. Humans haven't even begun to solve that mystery, but at least the scientist are trying to find factual proof. God people just assume you should accept a fairy tale without question.

All's I can say is my ancient, one-celled ancestor didn't crawl out of the primordial ooze, fight to survive through the millenia, only to waste that big brain by believing in ego-salving drivel in the 21st century. Following Jesus is just fine with me--his PURE philosophies are absolutely the key to human evolution. But why take an enlighten HUMAN'S brilliant insight from 2000 years ago, and make it about God and divinity? Aren't we smarter than that by now?

nt

“When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” – Stephen F. Roberts

He still believes in Jesus (he's 9) - but then, he still believes in Santa, too.

I will not lie to him and pretend to believe in something I don't, so I found this quote most helpful in explaining what I don't believe.

I do not believe in god. I am an Atheist. I see religion as a perpetuated delusion you inherit from your parents.

The Constitution is very firm when it says "NO RELIGIOUS TEST" should be administered for the Presidency. Last night was just that. A religious test.

IMHO, Obama passed it. McCain, even with 1000 points to start, failed it.

Despite my objections to the event, many good things came out of this:

- Obama will never be thought of seriously as a Muslim, since it is clear to those who care that he is, in fact, a Christian.

- Obama came across genuine, McCain, not so.

- Obama's Abortion defense was the GREATEST I've seen yet. His goal is to reduce abortions. Period. This will silence many of the Anti-Abortioners.

"Do you believe in god?"
"yes"
"Do you believe in MY god?"
"no"
BOOM

Only our archaic fear of not knowing what happens to us after we die do we continue to persist that there are magical places that we go to, to be judged if we have been good or bad during life.

It's an absurd notion to think there is an invisible man in the sky who watches us and judges us.

Could there be a higher alien intelligence that exists out in space- sure, and most likely there is.

But god? No.

Religion is a exploitaive tool that be used to commit crimes against our fellow men and women and it uses our fear of the unknown as it's greatest weapon. All the while making people believe they are good ethical christian, buddists, muslims, jews, etcs etcs etcs etcs.

We are so secure in our intellectual superiority that of course there has to be a god- because we are too smart to be wrong.

"Unrepentant" meaning that I don't give a damn about the unspoken taboo against criticizing religion and thus I could care less about whiny Theists calling me an "angry fundamentalist atheist" because I dared ignore the taboo.

Religion is a mental illness.

but I am far from a mainstream Christian! Consider myself a Pagan. Feel very strongly about the importance of spirituality, and can't stand the way the Republican Party has twisted religion.

I do not believe God is an old man in the sky. He is probably more like a force of light or something. I am a Christian and believe in the teachings of Christ (except I'm more open to people just doing the right thing and being good people,) but I go my own way on some things.

And I'm quite happy with the arrangement.

If I am wrong and there *IS* a god, well then fuck him/her/it, exactly like anyone else that treats me as their enemy.

I'm more of a God is All kinda guy.

NT!

:shrug:

Only he is able to intercede with the Almighty to insure that your soul lives in bliss for eternity in the afterlife.

He knows the rituals and the sacred language. He hears the voice of the Almighty, and sees Him in holy visions. Only the Shaman can interpret the signs and wonders from the Almighty to the tribe.

All you need to do is believe in what the Shaman tells you to, fear those that don't believe as you do, attend the rituals, and sacrifice for the deity.

Nothing much has changed from the Stone Age to the present.

There is always one crafty, shiftless con man too lazy or unwilling to hunt for himself, but got others to do it for him, with promises of rewards, not in this life, but the next, all in the name of 'God'.



And they say prostitution is the 'oldest profession'. Got nothin' on the religion peddlers.

I voted "no." I'm an atheist and don't mind identifying as such. It seems as though atheists and/or agnostics are a majority here. Does the majority DU vote (i.e. "a god doesn't exist") mean that we ought to hold Christian and/or religious voters in contempt? I admit to being exasperated with the persistent belief in dieties that maintains to this day despite all the evidence to the contrary - but the fact remains that most Americans still believe in a god. So...in a political sense....

What about the majority of Americans who DO believe in a god? I know it's not a unified vote, but by our very vocal contempt, are we saying we're ABOVE the common rabble, that we're not like everybody else? If our candidate DOES believe in a god - and I think he does, sincerely - then should we hold HIM in contempt, as well? Does anyone else see a disconnect there?

Okay, anyways, I've verbalized the contradictions and problems as I see them. Go ahead and flame away.

I'm not perfect about adhering to that ideal, of course, but who knows why they believe the things they do?

Better to be a good example (which I'm so often not) and prove that gods, even if they existed, aren't necessary.

If I thought Obama was sincere in his faith I would lose most respect for him and question his fitness hold nuclear launch authority. I remain hopeful his faith is largely a matter of political necessity. McCain is, of course, a straight-up nihilist in the Bush the First, Richard Nixon mold.

I am not contemptuous of Christians as such. I just don't think anyone who actually believes the end of the world will arrive anytime soon should be commander in chief of a nuclear super-power. We owe the world at least that much.

I will never forget James Watt (Reagan Secretary of the Interior) questioning the need for conservation because Jesus would be coming back fairly soon.

I'm not willing to go so far as to say "There is no god", but I will say "I don't believe in God". There is a subtle difference in the phrasing. I don't know if that makes me atheist or agnostic.

Most agnostics are actually atheists if they apply the same standards to belief in God they apply to everything else.

As a cultural matter it is considered prideful to say there is no God, but similar levels of skepticism about other things are stated as simple negatives. "There is no car in my driveway."

Few people hedge similar statements, like saying "I do not believe the US government is run by Roswell crashed saucer aliens, but I am not prepared to say it isn't."

(When pressed, I am an agnostic as to whether there is a car in the driveway in that I am prepared to be proved wrong.)

I myself am an agnostic atheist - don't know any evidence that proves or disproves the existence of gods, and thus am unconvinced any exist and lack belief in any.

Course, if Clapton is God, Hendrix must be a destroyer of gods or something. And I have no idea where Steve Howe fits in.

A question like that really can't be answered because the term "God" is not defined.

If one means by "God" a human-like being who has emotions like love or anger and cares about us as individuals, then that definition is clearly too small to encompass an entity which creates the Universe. Our brains are too inadequate to understand such an entity. Like other religious people, we would have to depend on the human understanding of brains which lived and wrote hundreds of years ago when the Sun was the center of the Universe. It's clearly an impossible task to "believe" that God or those writers.

If one wants to define "God" as some power that controls the Universe, an amorphous, undefinable "Being" far beyond our limited understanding, then go ahead. It's irrelevant because it's beyond our comprehension. It would take so much ego to say that one relates to "God."

I suspect that many of those who say that they believe in God say it because, in our culture, being an atheist or agnostic is unacceptable. Or they say it because "God" might be listening. Yeah.

Of course not.

He knew me before I knew Him :)

I'm often told that if I ask or respond to questions like these anywhere but my own home or church, I'm "forcing my religion down people's throats...".

So, to prevent anything unbidden from going down someone's throat, I guess I really can't answer... :shrug: