Why is the concept of "serving one's country" virtually restricted to military duty.

Shooting and killing is the only way to serve this country these days it seems.

I sure hope President Obama can do what JFK did and convince Americans to go around the world and actually do some good.

:eyes:

Try googling 'Peace Corp'...

return them to the Smilies lookup table, okay?

And yes, soldiers are there to shoot. Everything else is a side business.

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are war mongering ignorant scum...one of the things the military does is reward extra pay and advancement for war duty, so of course all the lemmings in the military want to go fight.

disciplined and proud Americans. I don't know what's going on today with our professional and mercenary militia. I lived in what was known as a base town when I was growing up and there was a lot of pride in being American and the military held that together back then, but now that I think about it we weren't at war then.

People who are off with the military in Iraq are NOT serving their country.

They may BELIEVE that they're serving their country. Their friends and relatives may BELIEVE it. The media may SAY it. The brass may TELL THEM SO.

That doesn't make it true.

They are actually serving U.S. corporate interests, particularly the oil companies, and their neocon errand boys.

They may not want to hear this, but it's true, and the sooner people recognize and refuse to serve a corrupt institution, and the sooner Congress has the guts to trim the military budget to the level actually needed to defend the country instead of the level needed to rule the world, the better off the U.S. will be.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

The American people have been so indoctrinated with this militaristic BULLSHIT that they can't even think logically about it anymore, not to mention the fact that 90% of them pay no attention to and know nothing of international affairs.

Tell me about the wonderful things that the U.S. military is doing in Iraq.

Oh wait, they wrecked it in the first place.

Just because you THINK your child was serving the country, that does NOT make it true.

Another poster (a military wife) told me that I "know nothing" but then refused to enlighten me because I was "hopeless."

That's the position of a person who knows that her position is indefensible.

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you just want to call me a dimwit.

That means that your parental feelings are getting in the way of your common sense, or that deep down, you know I'm right and that there is no defense for the Iraq War.

Look it up... here.. I did it for you...

Stop-loss used to retain 50,000 US troops

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0131/dailyUpdate.html

By Tom Regan | csmonitor.com

"Stop-loss," a policy used by the Army to keep US soldiers and reservists in the military beyond the date when their service was supposed to end, has been used on more than 50,000 members of the armed forces since the war in Iraq began. Currently stop-loss is being used to extend the duty of 12,500 troops. Reuters reports that the measure applies to units about to deploy to Afghanistan or Iraq.

Under the policy, soldiers who normally would leave when their commitments expire must remain in the Army, starting 90 days before their unit is scheduled to depart, through the end of their deployment and up to another 90 days after returning to their home base. With yearlong tours in Iraq and Afghanistan, some soldiers can be forced to stay in the Army an extra 18 months.

more....

:grr:

and I understand that a lot of soldiers are in Iraq against their will.

That doesn't mean that they're "serving their country."

I'm 58 years old, and I can't think of a conflict since WWII and possibly Korea when the U.S. military actually "defended freedom" instead of promoting U.S. business interests or defending presidential egos.

That was my original point: Whatever the military personnel THINK they're doing, they are NOT serving the American people.

:eyes:

"and I understand that a lot of soldiers are in Iraq against their will."

But then they get confronted with the sad fact that they don't get to choose their missions, which mostly have nothing to do with serving our country.

because they shouldn't have hooked up a job that entails killing in the first place.

were "defending freedom" in places like Vietnam and Iraq-but I think that those people need to believe it was worth the sacrifice because otherwise they'd go insane. Others confront the reality head on; "the military brainwashes you into believing all kinds of crap, and only in hindsight can you see the reality of it" one friend and former soldier told me recently.

There's a documentary out there called "why we fight", and in it even John McCain admits that it's all about corporate interests and power, not "preserving freedom". "You wouldn't see much war if it weren't so profitable" says McCain. Now the Obama campaign should be running THAT clip!

:evilgrin:

My thoughts exactly

That makes sense that you can do other things rather than killing. That is what the Peace Corp was for, but we've forgotten about that. Now we invade innocent countries and kill innocent people and call our people "War Hero's" for doing it. There's something wrong with this, when our own "President" tried to destroy our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Our troops are NOT fighting for "our freedom" because Iraq didn't attack us, They had no WMD and they wanted us to send back the inspectors before Bush went to war against them. They wanted to prove they didn't have any WMD, but liar Bush didn't want to know about that, and sent the woman who tried to help, to a mental ward.

Skip

Moyers' guest on Friday, Bacevich, talked all about this "control the world" mindset and how it has damaged the U.S.

I found myself nodding and saying "yeah" the whole way through.

:eyes:

for decades. Without killing anyone.

... AFTER we served in the military, came back, got called "baby killers" and treated like lepers??

Got it. :eyes:

Funny ... I always thought that was just the basic duty of any citizen in anything that purports to be a "democracy."

because I'm close to a pacifist: No military action except in self-defense. Real self-defense. Not imaginary self-defense. Not pre-emptive war.

Yup. Gotcha. Sort of a "every man for himself" attitude on a national scale. Good luck with that. :eyes:

--and there will be far fewer reasons for genocide. That, plus real familiy planning and empowerment of women would go quite a way toward curbing the population growth that is behind most of the resource wars.

when resource or business interests are at stake.

Otherwise, Cambodia, Darfur, Rwanda, Congo--that kind of genocide isn't a problem, as far as our leaders are concerned, especially if it's black people killing one another. Just in the Balkans, where taking care of it was well within the capabilities of Western European forces.

Mutual defense treaties? They CAUSED World War I.

And why the hell does NATO still exist, complete with nukes in Germany, and why are all these Eastern European countries joining it? No wonder the Russians are getting nervous.

Military planners remind me of nothing more than my brothers when they were 12 and 14 and fascinated with playing Risk.

nation when that nation has a resource or something the US needs like a location for an airbase...otherwise we just sit back and watch the slaughter waiting for our chance to go in after the fact and glean the spoils.

I too spent a year traveling around the nation working with at risk youth and then the past 20 years working for peace and justice. In fact I am right now the chair for a peace and justice group in Tacoma, Washington

But, like the physician's first rule, I also do no harm.

because iraq was SUCH a threat to it...:eyes:

:eyes:

Just a system that glorifies militarism.

BRING THEM HOME... NOW!!!!!

:grr: :nuke: :grr: :nuke: :grr:

Militarism and neocon ideology are what CREATES the whole stop-loss situation.

I am opposed to the CAUSE of the stop-loss atrocity.

Too many people's children have been killed, young people who could have made great contributions to our country, but now they won't, because they were conned into thinking that joining the U.S. military automatically counts as "service to one's country."

entice people to sign up without the draft?

Oh, and Breeze, if you're tempted to weigh in-- I AM a veteran, eventually turned anti-militarist, and know a little about this myself.

I serve my country just as much as anyone who is toting a gun, only I do it with different instruments.

Yes, the military will be of aid if our country were to be attacked---but who cares for the injured? Who cares for those maimed by chemical and biological warfare? Who ensures that the population is WELL ENOUGH to serve and protect our country?

You know, there were just as many heroes at the hospitals and ambulances and triage centers around WTC that day, but you don't hear abou them. THe only heroes our country is concerned with are firefighters, police, and military. I guarantee you that the MD's and RN's and EMT's on 9/11 were getting by with just as little sleep food and water as the FD and PD were. And just like the FD and PD, our job didn't stop once the towers fell. We were caring for the injured and walking dead just as much as they were, but in a different capacity.

When there's a fire, or a hurricane, or plane crash, or nuclear war, WE have to be there, too. We go without food and water, too. WE go to warzones and impoverished nations, too. We're killed in warzones, too. We get killed on the job, too. We work under horrid conditions, too. We work with low pay, high expectations, and an infinity of responsibility. Our facilities are falling down with no funding. We're just as much of the machine as anyone else is, just in a different capacity.

If "serving your country" meant promoting equality and justice, standing up to corrupt politicians or holding up the constitution too many "other" people would be serving. Gay people who protest for equal rights, small town politicians who break the vise like grip of narrowmindedness, these are true Americans. I feel serving your country means standing up for what makes it great.