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US 6th Fleet Flag Ship to Black Sea, along with a LA Class Submarine.

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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:30 AM
Original message
US 6th Fleet Flag Ship to Black Sea, along with a LA Class Submarine.
US Sixth Fleet News: (aug 21)

"Two U.S. Navy ships and a U.S. Coast Guard cutter are getting underway to transport humanitarian relief supplies to Georgia. These deployments are part of the larger United States response to the government of Georgia request for humanitarian assistance.

USS McFaul (DDG 74) departed from Souda Bay, Crete, Aug. 20, and the U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Dallas (WHEC 716) will leave later this week. McFaul and Dallas are scheduled to transit into the Black Sea and arrive in Georgia within a week.

USS Mount Whitney (LCC/JCC 20) is currently on loading humanitarian relief materials in her homeport of Gaeta, Italy, and will proceed to Georgia later this month."

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=39246

"Vice Adm. Harry Ulrich, commander, U.S. 6th Fleet, transferred his flag from USS La Salle (AGF 3) to USS Mount Whitney (LCC/JCC 20) Feb. 25 in a ceremony aboard both ships.

To improve efficiency and effectiveness, Mount Whitney is also embracing a new manning model. Down from 576 active-duty Sailors, ship’s company now includes a mix of 157 active-duty Navy and 146 civilian mariners, a change expected to save the Navy more than $100,000 annually, with the same or higher operational capabilities." (More contractors?)

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=17251

Wiki:

"(The Mount Whitney is) the command and control ship for Commander Joint Command Lisbon and Commander Striking Force NATO.

Considered by some to be the most sophisticated Command, Control, Communications, Computer, and Intelligence (C4I) ship ever commissioned, Mount Whitney incorporates various elements of the most advanced C4I equipment and gives the embarked Joint Task Force Commander the capability to effectively command all units under the command of the Commander, Joint Task Force.

Mount Whitney can receive and transmit large amounts of secure data from any point on earth through HF, UHF, VHF, SHF and EHF communications paths. This technology enables the Joint Intelligence Center and Joint Operations Center to provide the timely intelligence and operational support available in the Navy."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Mount_Whitney_(LCC-20)

Pretty big deal for a simple "hummanitarian" relief mission.

Wired reports:

"The Georgia flotilla . . . is stacked with heavily-armed warships. The vanguard includes the Burke-class destroyer McFaul and the armed Coast Guard cutter Dallas. (Another Dallas, a nuclear submarine, is also in the area.) Trailing behind is the command ship Mount Whitney with, reportedly, Polish and Canadian frigates as escorts. The naval aid effort isn't taking any chances."

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/us-warships-run.html

From Belmont Club:

"The allied naval flotilla now in the area is a blue-water force and may in certain respects be superior to the Russian Black Sea Fleet, whose flagship the cruiser Moskva was reported damaged in combat by the Georgian navy. A Burke-class destroyer is considerably more powerful than anything the Georgian Navy could have deployed. While it is extremely unlikely that any actual naval confrontation will occur (Cold War Rule Number 1) there could be a return to Cold War era harassments between the two forces. At any rate, the Russians have sought to impede the ships not by naval means, but by denying the ships access to the land. (See their occupation of Poti.)

The arrival of the USS Mount Whitney is interesting because it implies that the 'relief operation' might get much larger. By exploiting the fear generated by the Russian incursion into Georgia, the USN may position a presence in the Black Sea than heretofore, something Russia probably doesn’t want. But how will they stop it without directly confronting the US?

http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/

Belmont believes the US can get around 1936 Montreaux Convention, which was designed to prevent big warships from entering the Black Sea. They didn't know about Aegis destroyers and nuclear submarines back then.

The USS McFaul can provide, as one poster to Belmnt Club writes, "air defense system capable of defending much of western Georgia and a floating, active, self-contained ballistic missile defense system covering the entire Black Sea and the Caucasus."

http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2008/08/24/the-black-sea/

But what about those 55 pallets of relief aid?
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution.
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Again: It looks like the 1981 Psyops that proceeded Able Archer 83....
and, what many experts agree, was the closest the US and Russia ever got to all-out nuclear war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83

Probing defenses... Lighting up radars...
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I read the link, thanks. I don't know, tho.
I think this just looks like us deploying so much fire power into the Black Sea that the Russians decide that discretion is the better part of valor.

They honestly can't compete with what we're sending.

Apparently, the only air craft carrier they have in the BS, the Admiral Kuznetsov, is headed toward the Mediterranian, possibly to the Syrian port of Tartus.

Kommersant reported in June 2006:

"Russia is dredging the Syrian port of Tartus, where a maintenance station for the Russian Navy is located. That station has been there since Soviet times. Kommersant learned of this work from Vladimir Zimin, senior economic advisor at the Russian embassy in Syria. Russia is also widening the port at Latakia. That may be evidence that Russia is considering Syria as a base from which to expand its influence in the Middle East. In that case, the maintenance station at Tartus may be converted into a naval base in the future for Black Sea Fleet warships when they are withdrawn from Sevastopol."

http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?idr=527&id=678771

I'd say if they were really itching for a fight, they would have kept the Admiral Kuznetsov in the area. Then again, maybe they're afriad of losing it?
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Arleigh Burke- class destroyers are powerful
That will be an extremely well-defended force. Or some target is about to get blasted into powder.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. With the Mount Whitney there, too, they can basically
control that entire region's air defenses. The minute a MiG 29 leaves the ground they can be all over it.

And, of course, too, they'll be able to keep tabs on every ship in the Black Sea Fleet.

Putin can't sneeze without us knowing a minute later.

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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. 32 Knot Burke!!!!
Famous Admiral!!!!!!!!
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. Each U.S. war ship still requires the permission of the Turks
Each U.S. war ship still requires the permission of the Turks to pass through the Bosporus; and ffter the Hood incident a few years back, and the fact the the Turks recalled their U.S. ambassador in Sept(?) of last year, it's not a given that the U.S. can put in place a geo-politically effective fleet into the Black Sea.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. As I noted above, the 1936 Montreaux Convention
is kind of outdated. It was intended for the age of big Battleships. Tonnage matters in this case.

The US can try to get around this loop-hole.

As noted previously,

Turksam reported in March:

"In efforts to get the Montreux Convention annulled, the U.S. is in direct contact with Romania, a signatory state of the agreement that maintains the 'right to annul' it.

Russia, like Turkey, does not want such U.S. influence in the region. In contrast, new members of NATO, Bulgaria and Romania, support the United States. Georgia and Ukraine are sympathetic towards the United State’s position. Hence, there is split among the littoral states of the Black Sea about U.S. proposals for the region."

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bushmeister0/52

I don't know one way or the other, but you know who we're dealing with here. International agreements? We don't need no stinkin' international agreements! Ha!
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I think Rice and Cheney are denied their usual bluster in this case
While the Convention may be "kind of outdated", and while the U.S. is jockeying for ways around it, the U.S. is still required (and still does) to get Turkish permission.

(and I certainly don't think I implied that tonnage is irrelevant...?)

And as the Russian Black Sea Fleet is a large one (compared to what the U.S. has in the regions) comprised of six missile boats, four missile corvettes, five ASW corvettes, two attack subs, two guided missile frigates, three guided destroyers, and one guided missile cruiser (as of six week ago-- it may have changed since then), the best the U.S. can hope to do is provide air defense for ground troops.

I think when backed up with that kind of regional firepower, Rice and Cheney are denied their usual bluster in ignoring international agreements in this particular case.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. There's still no word on whether the Turks have given permission
for the Mount Whitney's passage, yet. This is all acedemic at this point.

Despite the Russian order of battle, however, our flotilla is still pretty inpressive.

The Russians would be stupid to think they could go toe to toe with it.

Any info on the actual modern capabilities of the Russian BSF, btw?

I'm just can't stop thinking of the Kursk.





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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I can see it as no more than a weak statement of intent.
"This is all acedemic at this point." You're right of course.

However I can't see one DDG, a Coast Guard cutter and a command ship as impressive. At best, I can see it as no more than a weak statement of intent.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Maybe, it's intended to sure up our wavering "allies" in the region?
I'm thinking Aliyev and Yuschenko might need a little back stiffening about now?

It sure helps Cheney look tougher as he swoops into the region.

Btw, I'm real interested about Cheney's last stop in Italy. The 6th Fleet is stationed in Gaeta, right?

Hmmm . . . inquiring minds want to know!
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LeftinOH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. The US feet in the Black Sea is (to the Russians) like Russia having
ships on the Great Lakes. Thats really gonna piss them off.
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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. A submarine for a "humanitarian" mission?
Makes sense with an organization where liberation means occupation.
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. We are talking about the Bush family here.
Maybe, the Sub's delivering drugs?
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. That seems like a lot of "humanitarian relief" goods.
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