Teen drinking. How do you deal with it do you allow your teens to drink at home or do you send

them out and pretend it isn't happening. I am at a loss here my oldest daughter is in second year of university and her friends always hung out at our house they were very secretive about alcohol in our house. I guess I allowed it as long as it was hidden. My teen son 18 years old is much more open and thinks he should be allowed to drink at home he says at least he is being honest about what he is doing. How do you all deal with this,???

They knew I drank and smoked pot. They also knew, because I'm responsible, my group of friends ALWAYS had a DD.

Never got in trouble.

They treated me like an adult, and I appreciated it.

my home.

Basically, no one was getting in trouble for drinking--and by drinking I meant we made pretty pink Cosmos or Midoris and then giggled a lot when we smoked and read Playgirl. All my friends' parents knew we drank and it was ok with them as long as we were responsible.
We're not talking wild and crazy parties :)

18 the legal age to drink in Canada?

Some are 18 and some are 19.

any of us, or they were too busy doing their own partying.
They had no choice as far as the pot fad went; lots of examples of pot, though they always abhorred it.

They knew what we were doing--no reason to hide it. They did their jobs as parents to make sure we were safe and always had a ride home no matter what. They did a fine job.

They knew we would have a few drinks and just chill. Obviously, if someone had a substance abuse issue, I'm sure it wouldn't have been tollerated.

young did your parents allow you to set the house rules? Who is in charge at your house anyway?

were very discrete. It is because of this that I am asking I know how sneaky teenagers can be and only wonder how other parents handle this.

be the first to say that the 21 y/o age limit is stupid, it needs to go back to 18 in the US. If they can die for a country they should be able to drink in that same country. With that being said, as long as it's 21 and not 18 anyone giving alcohol to a minor, or providing a place for them to drink is committing a crime.

"But Mom, Billy's mother allows us to drink" won't hold up in ANY court. If you hate the age limit fight it a different way, teenagers are dying every night on the road because of alcohol related crashes.

Then all high school parties will assuredly have someone to furnish the alcohol.

About 50% of the alcohol involved accidents i had to respond to. Involved under age drinkers.

The 21-year-old drinking age is an abomination. WAY later than other countries. Ridiculous.

We need MUCH stricter drunk driving laws, though, like they have in Europe. That way the "Designated Driver" thing will become ingrained, because the heavy DWI penalties will be a deterrent.

Because they are going to do it one way or the other. When I was a teen my parents would allow it and my friends' parents would allow it. They all were told about it and all car keys were collected and no one was allowed out. I'd rather have my daughter and her friends party at my house then out at some frat house where people will try to take advantage of them.

why I gave all my kids heroin, they were gonna do it anyway.

is they are not going to do it anyway if they've been raised right and a good foundation has been established. Peer pressure is a bitch, teach them young what it's about and how to deal with it.

This nonsense about, "they're going to do it anyway" is sad IMO. Hey, lets no clean up the dog crap over there, they're just going to do it again. SHEESH!!!

when they support someone's alcoholism. "They're going to do it anyway." There are a lot of enablers in this thread.

We have wine in our home, to have with meals, as a matter of course. Once my child weights about 75 pounds, she will start having very watered down wine, barely pink, with us at dinner. The proportion will change as she matures. As she ages, she will not only continue to see us drinking responsibly, she will also be given the chance to prove to us that she can drink responsibly. At New Years, she will have a few drops of champagne. If she drinks to excess, or lies to me trying to hide her drinking (even if not to excess), she will be appropriately punished, depending on the exact transgression. This is how my parents taught me to drink like a mature person, and I have faith in this method.

How have you been doing it?

don't teach kids to drink. I live between two college towns, 9 miles apart. Kids die every weekend here. I would rather teach them drinking really doesn't do anyone any good. Sure the AMA says a glass a day of wine and all that stuff but that's not what this is about. I really hope someone shows up with the alcohol related highway deaths by age before this thread dies.

What good does teaching a kid how to drink do? Is there a merit badge for that?

Parents are duty-bound to teach their children how to be responsible adults: how to eat properly and healthfully, how to save and spend money, how to dress appropriately, how to interact with others in a mature manner, etc. One of these responsibilities is how to drink like a responsible adult. If I don't teach her, who will? Those peers who were never given guidelines and rules? That would be irresponsible on my part.

they do need to learn to dress, feed themselves, drive, and wipe their ass. Do they need to learn to drink? Is it one of the essences of life?

I suspect you say no.

And I really would appreciate an answer to my question to you: Are you a parent or not?

My wife and I couldn't have kids. We are raising her niece in our home, she's 18 and does not drink. My nephews lived with me on and off for years and they didn't drink either.

Now explain to me why your ability to have kids trumps any wisdom I may have?

Thank you for your reply. I apologize for the colloquial phrasing of my question which did not fit exactly to your particular circumstances.

I feel I should add that I am Italian American, and drinking wine is part of my culture. I also expect my child to work in a professional atmosphere where social drinking is expected. She will have to know how to do it responsibly, and I see it as my duty to teach her how to do so.

What have you taught the children in your charge about drinking? Simply not to do so?

don't feel this is an attack but to use culture as an excuse for drinking is a not really good. I'm second generation Irish and my wife and her family are first generation. Her Mom is as Irish as they come but none of us drink. To use a horrible analogy it's like me saying my ancestors were head-hunters and they make great key chains.

I guess I would ask, do you want you kids to drink and why? To be closer to their roots? What I have taught any teenager I've ever had an influence over is drinking really has no positive outcome. Do you know anyone who loves hangovers? Beer farts? Does that beer in your hand look as cool in your hand as a cigarette? I ask them when you stumble and slur from drinking do you make more friends? When your sober are you attracted to the guys with vomit on their shirt?

Sorry for the graphicness of my post but these are things kids that drink WILL come into contact with. No, I teach them the importance of discussion, enlightenment, and life, none of which a person really sees though alcohol clouded eyes.

Every instance of drinking you describe in your posts leads to drunkenness. I don't see that as realistic. One glass of wine with dinner, or a before-dinner drink at a wedding reception or business dinner will not lead a hangover in the morning, nor stumbling or slurring of speech, nor an episode of vomiting. And if it happens that my child's body chemistry means that she cannot take even one drink because it affects her so severely, I expect her to avoid it, just as I expect her to avoid, oh, let's say running a mile so hard that she vomits.

I do not feel drinking is a behavior that needs excusing, as if it were something to be ashamed of.

how many college age kids stop at one glass at dinner?

I can't speak for anyone else.

I am not preparing my child for college only, but for her whole life. Someday the kids we are responsible for will be 30 - we have to prepare them for that time as well as their early adulthood. By teaching moderation and responsibility, and by teaching that drink is not a mystery, I have confidence she will make it to 30 and beyond.

I was raised having wine mixed with cola as a kid for sunday brunch and as I got older I graduated to straight wine. My mother is portuguese.It took all the rebellious secretive teenage fun out of drinking as it was not something forbidden. I think that is the part of the problem in the states but I don't think it accounts for all. Does europe have a major problem with children over indulging? I am wondering.

Apparently, the current studies available via Google to the layperson suggest that only in the last ten years or so has there been an effort in Italy (I narrowed my searching to there because it is the country with which I am most familiar) to quantify teenage drinking in a sociological and public health framework.

Which is all a fancy way of saying that I didn't find much useful info to answer your question when I looked because there hasn't been a lot of work done that I could find on the subject. YMMV.

Let's not sugarcoat what alcohol is. I don't think that puts you in a good position to judge what kind of parents other people are.

Nor am I judging other people's parenting methods: I am interested in how those who object to my methods teach their kids about alcohol use.

on edit: What do you teach the kids in your charge about alcohol?

I don't have kids. I did have an alcoholic parent who taught me something about alcohol. I don't see any reason not to demonize it.

And also think about the position a parent is in. The job is to raise a fully functioning, mature adult. And that includes lessons about liquor that, in my family and in my set of values, do not include blanket fear-based prohibition.

That's what my parents did, and it made drinking responsibly almost second nature.

:thumbsup:

On edit: Let me add what you omitted: Why not teach her how to drink in a healthful and responsible manner?

You say you'll start your child drinking when their 75 lbs. That's your idea of being a responsible parent? You and i definitely differ.

"...she will start having very watered down wine, barely pink, with us at dinner."

This is how I and everyone else in my family was raised, including my parents and their parents. May I ask how you are doing it with the kids in your home?

She never drank as a teenager that I'm aware of, and still doesnt. She's a flight for life nurse in West TX and can tell you more horror story's about teenagers and alcohol, than you'll care to hear. I spent 22 years in law enforcement responding to calls that where 75%, were alcohol involved.

Sorry but your excuse is as watered down as your wine.

The prohibitionist model apparently worked in your family. It does not work in mine. I have nothing to be ashamed of.

I do find it interesting that the two people who posted objections directly to me are from Texas. We clearly have a wide cultural gulf between us, as I am from New York City. Perhaps my model would not work in Texas. Perhaps yours would not work in NYC.

Oh King of ludicrous exaggeration.

How many underage kids are drinking at your house on a given weekend? You're OK with that?

I don't allow underage drinking at my house. My kids are 13 and 12. When they get to be 18 it might be a different story. I just think that it's better, if older teens are going to drink, for them to do it under supervision in a safe place rather than do it in the street or at some place where there are no adults and bad things can happen to them. I would never give a kid alcohol without their parent's consent. I would follow the model used by my parents and my friend's parents when I was coming up.

:popcorn: :)

this gonna get crazy

They need to know they're going to have adult consequences to drinking and the only way they'll know that for real is if you treat them like adults on the issue.

at friend's houses. It would have been very difficult to stop him from drinking; he was a very large young man with a very deep voice, and he would not have been carded anywhere. However, if he was going to be drinking, I insisted that he tell me, and that he had enough cash to take a cab home or a place to stay. No one drank and drove........of course, since I live in a city, that was much easier to enforce.

allowed a glass of wine as teens at family get togethers. We just never were big for drinking so it was not something they had around them. And it was always treated as a special thing with holidays. A drink of wine. My mom is from France so they knew it was just something to be somewhat respected but not abused.

and it has worked well. The policy is that she not ride with or drive while drinking. I do not have an open drinking at home policy with others, unless it is just a couple of girls and I know them and have the permission of their parents. She has never been much to drink with her friends at our house. However, she knows that she can call me that she is not coming home because she has been drinking and that she can and has called me to come and get her if she was in a situation where she did not want to stay overnight.

I did have a drinking at home policy with friends of my oldest daughter (now 36) and she did like to bring her friends to the house to drink, but I never felt comfortable as, even though I insisted they not leave. I never felt like I really had control over whether they stayed or went. (Some lived within walking distance, so taking the keys wasn't a sure thing). And I also felt that, if I had to take the keys, then the trust was not really there. I don't like to be responsible for other minors drinking. And there is a tremendous liability with this.

I think you can decide, based on your relationship with your son, what your comfort level is. And I always let my daughter know, that based on her responsibility level, I can always change the rules. She hasn't let me down yet. She's also in college. And she really doesn't "party" all that much and most of the time, when she does, she volunteers to be the designated driver.

As always with this type of info- it's worth exactly what you pay.

Peace -

feels that I am being paranoid about what I will and won't allow. I know that many teens go out and drink despite the admonitions of their parents all I am trying to guage is how other parents deal with this.

From what I understand, drinking at home under parent supervision is legal, but it has to be at home under parent supervision.

no it's not. You may want to look into that, especially if a group of kids is at your house.

In Texas, under law you can even order your underage child a drink in a public pub/restaurant. If I read the post correctly, it was about parents allowing their children to drink at home. It did not say anything about other underagers drinking in their home.

Texas most of my life. I've seen parents taken to jail for providing alcohol to their kids.

ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CODE

CHAPTER 106. PROVISIONS RELATING TO AGE

§ 106.04. CONSUMPTION OF ALCOHOL BY A MINOR. (a) A minor
commits an offense if he consumes an alcoholic beverage.

***(b) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this
section that the alcoholic beverage was consumed in the visible
presence of the minor's adult parent, guardian, or spouse.***

(c) An offense under this section is punishable as provided
by Section 106.071.
(d) A minor who commits an offense under this section and
who has been previously convicted twice or more of offenses under
this section is not eligible for deferred disposition. For the
purposes of this subsection:
(1) an adjudication under Title 3, Family Code, that
the minor engaged in conduct described by this section is
considered a conviction of an offense under this section; and
(2) an order of deferred disposition for an offense
alleged under this section is considered a conviction of an offense
under this section.

Next time you go out with your kids order them a drink and see what happens. Why at places like Applebees and restaurants with bars kids under 18 are not allowed even with their parents in the bar area?. I know from experience waiting for tables to open in restaurants and asking if we can sit at the bar and eat. The answer is always no if the kids I'm with are under 18.

Now if I can buy my kids a beer as you say why can't I take them into the bar area of a restaurant? Get back to me on that.

at the Hyatt two Thanksgivings ago. The asked for her ID and then mine. And yes, bars and restaurants can enforce a stricter code at their discretion. Too bad you don't have any.

I have no discretion. It went out the window when I was left crippled by a drunk driver. It was years before I could walk right again. But hey, your kids are happy, Mom and Dad let them drink.

endorsed drunk driving or driving and drinking. The poster is asking other people's opinions on how to handle underage drinking. This is not a post on drunk driving and is really the opposite.

If you were injured by a drunk driver, I hope their ass is in jail and that they never drive again, and my sympathies go out to you.

None the less, you are being obnoxious to people expressing their views to stop the very thing that caused your injury.

I'm actually attacking people who allow underage drinking, you know the stuff that is against the law. Do you really think letting them drink at home actually keeps them from drinking elsewhere? What is wrong with teaching them drinking really has no positive results? What good comes from drinking? Do you drive better? Do you study harder? Does it help you have more insightful conversations? I've had conversations with drunks, they aren't that insightful.

What I'm getting from most of the people here is, "Hey, I can't stop them so I should let them do it anyway." YOU"RE a PARENT, do some parenting.

Look, I can understand, somewhat, about what you are talking about, but just telling the kids "No don't drink" isn't going to help the situation. Unless you plan on monitoring them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, there is no practical way to prevent them from drinking, or doing drugs. Parents are supposed to teach their kids about the real world, and how to handle certain situations. Its kinda like telling a teenager to not have sex, and because of ignorance, they have it anyways, but forgot the condom, and they end up with an STD, or getting pregnant.

As soon as I turned 15, my dad gave me the talk, and handed me a box of condoms, is that, somehow, irresponsible? During high school, my dad told me, if you go out drinking, and don't have a DD, call me, ANY TIME, day or night, and I'll pick you up, no questions, no lectures. Was he being irresponsible?

Parents always want the PERFECT kids, and to be honest, they seem to forget that you can have IMPERFECT kids that are still good kids. Teaching your kid about their OWN limits, and instill in them a need to be responsible for their own actions, without judgment from parents, allows them not only freedom, but responsibility as well. Its even better if its supervised.

Why do college kids, in the United States, binge drink? Why do teenagers drink and drive? Its because they were never TAUGHT how to be responsible for their own actions, they never learned how to drink in moderation, and they sure as hell never learned, or even had the OPTION, of not getting behind the wheel of an automobile while drunk.

Its not so much that teenagers don't need limits, but practicality must also be put into play, parents need to have a conversation with their teenagers that is like this: "Now I don't really want you to do (objectionable action), however, if you do make sure to do/use (item/action)."

Its even better if you can help the teenager through the trouble, buy them condoms/diaphragms, etc. if they are embarrassed, offer them a ride home from a house party if needed, hell, even host said parties for their friends, so they don't do anything rash or fatal. The first responsibility of any parent is to make sure their kid is SAFE, first and foremost, and then to teach them HOW to be safe on their own. At least, this way, they will survive to adulthood, and be well adjusted adults when they get there, then its mission accomplished!

I don't drink, my nieces and nephews don't drink, and the numerous kids I work with here don't drink. I'm pretty sure none of them were chained up in the basement. I truly believe if your child respects you then they won't drink until they're of legal age, maybe parents have forgot that respect goes both ways.

It's not that I say, "DON'T DRINK!!", I discuss drinking, peer pressure, and life with them. My life doesn't revolve around them, I don't need to be their friend, I need to be their mentor. I don't need to be cool, I need to protect and teach. From all of that comes love and respect, the first two building blocks of parenthood.

"I truly believe if your child respects you then they won't drink until they're of legal age, maybe parents have forgot that respect goes both ways."

:spray:

This is great. The abstinence approach to alcohol. Funny shit.

:rofl:

:D

The medical & science communities disagrees with you.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070307/FEATURES14/703070318/1028/FEATURES14">Drink to your Health: Have a little wine; it's good for you

Red Wine And White Wine May Be Equally Good For The Heart

Red Wine Protects The Heart

Alcohol good after heart surgery

And many many more. Moderation is always key.

V.T.C.A., Alcoholic Beverage Code § 106.06


Try again.

http://www.nllea.org/reports/ABCEnforcementLegalResearch.pdf (pdf file; chart on page 20)

These numbers might be a little outdated, though. They don't list Virginia among the states with a parental exceptions, despite this from the Virginia Code:

§ 4.1-200. Exemptions from licensure.

The licensure requirements of this chapter shall not apply to:



7. Any person who keeps and possesses lawfully acquired alcoholic beverages in his residence for his personal use or that of his family. However, such alcoholic beverages may be served or given to guests in such residence by such person, his family or servants when (i) such guests are 21 years of age or older or are accompanied by a parent, guardian, or spouse who is 21 years of age or older and (ii) such service or gift is in no way a shift or device to evade the provisions of this title.

that would have been great if anyone asked to OP which state they lived in. Instead they pretty much said, "Let um booze up, it's safer". I would have liked to see the law applied a little better when we choose to give advice. If not in some instances we may have told someone it's OK to break the law, a great lesson for kids. Scroll through, I asked the OP twice if 18 was a legal age where they lived.

"safer" is an entirely different question from "legal". (Either of these, I suppose, might be a shade different from "right" ... I've read that in Missouri, a kid taking out the trash falls under the legal definition of MIP if the trash contains empty bottles of alcohol.) Wisconsin has a family exception; Illinois doesn't. Does that mean it's safer to provide alcohol to one's minor wards in Wisconsin?

As for the OP, I don't know why they haven't answered you, but the drinking age in Ontario (where the OP is from) is apparently 19).

I'm not a parent, but personally I can't imagine having a party where I provided (or allowed other people's children to consume) alcohol. But I do expect that I will provide my own kids with alcohol in the form of a small glass of wine with dinner, etc., to model what I would consider a healthy approach to alcohol.

I'm a Texan and you haven't been able to legally order a drink for a child in our state for over 20 years. That's how it used to be, not how it still is.
Lee

For a certain state I mean.

take alcohol out of the equation. but that doesn't always work, of course.

That's a demonstration of allowing fear to hold you back from doing things, regarding a substance that one need not fear as long as it's being used responsibly.

There's a reason wine got it's own god.

In moderation, alcohol is good for you (unless you're allergic).

if the guy behind the wheel of the other car had some right before he plowed you down like a corn stalk. Sure, it's GREAT for you!!!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

MADD, they must be a bunch of dicks also. Your only contribution to this topic is to call me a dick? Come on, help the OP out, she really wants to do the right thing. Calling me a dick isn't going to help her.

They can go fuck themselves.

"Do not post personal attacks or engage in name-calling against other individual members of this discussion board. Even very mild personal attacks are forbidden. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

Between disagreeing, and offering an argument, and flaming.

That's like never mentioning sex as a method of sex education.

:shrug:

allowed his son to have a party at his house with alcohol. A friend of his son died that evening, and our family friend lost everything to a lawsuit. And his son lost his best friend.

I always believed that I'd be pretty "liberal" about drinking, but after that happened, no way. I'm not going to gamble with the lives of my children by allowing them to have friends over to drink. It's not worth it to me. If anything were to happen because I wanted to be seen as "cool," I'd truly lose my mind.

it's not a liberal or conservative thing though. Watch in about 3 seconds someone will say I'm some freeper or something. What's it's about is respect, respect by the kids and the parents. It's against the law, what message or we sending the kids if we allow them to drink?

respect.

or young adults with a safe place to drink and have a good time is an admirable thing to do IMO. It's the underage ones that I worry about. That's where my anger lies, with the parents of teenagers who allow them to break the law because they are tired of parenting.

Please forgive me, I'm not accusing you of this. I have very strong feelings about drinking, I had an athletic career ruined by a drunk driver. On the bright side I have a really nice titanium knee.

for 18 y/o's where you live? That's what I would base my advice on. If not I would just parent up and not allow it. I can list about 1000 things that could go wrong. With not allowing them to drink I can't see one bad thing that could happen. I think your goal is to eliminate "sneaking around". Do you have a problem with them sneaking around and lying now? Maybe that should be addressed within your family.

Let's say your child goes over to a friends and gets caught drinking. His reply to the parent, "Mom lets us do it." Wonder who that parent will call first, CPS or the police?

Most of us are trying to give you some relatively different views on this. And most of us are letting you know that our answers may not be you answer.

I've also taught my daughter not to trust someone with all the answers- her best teacher will the the one that gives her the questions.

Edited to be a little more pointed - I'm wary of a poster that has all the answers

By the time I went to law school, my youngest was in high school and the two older ones were either away at college or over 21.

Going back to an earlier era, my uncle sat my cousin down one summer evening before she started college and gave her enough martinis to get her roaring drunk, and violently hungover. I don't like that approach particularly, but in her case she immediately learned to drink in moderation - and led a long, law-abiding, productive life.

My parental drinking habit was limited to a bottle of wine with holiday meals and champagne for major life event celebrations - more a matter of tight budget than anything else. But I didn't keep liquor or beer in the house. My kids drank at parties but I never heard about this until years later. They never came home drunk, with one exception for my son when he was home from college one summer. Luckily they were seriously into sports and personal fitness, which led them to moderate their drinking.

What I didn't understand during those pre-law school years was the life-long, punitive legal consequences which would have befallen my kids if they had ever been arrested for using fake IDs, or underage drinking, or public intoxication, let alone, god forbid, a DUI arrest. In today's world, every employment application contains questions concerning criminal records, and if you've ever been arrested, EVEN IF the charges were dropped or you went to trial and were found not guilty. People with misdemeanor convictions (until the Bush years) were rejected from military enlistment, let alone getting in to one of the service academies. Such questions are asked when you apply for professional license or certificates (doctors,lawyers, architects, CPA's - ANY profession requiring a license/certificate). I think graduate schools now ask those questions - certainly law schools do.

If other people's kids get alcohol from your supply at home, or even bring it into your house and consume it there, and they are in any kind of accident afterward, YOU will be legally liable, and are subject to criminal prosecution as well as civil suit from anyone who is injured, INCLUDING the young person who got drunk. The law presumes that you either knew or should have known if any minors were drinking on your premises - that principle applies even if you were not home at the time.
I recently handled a case to get a criminal record expunged for a woman who was arrested when she and her husband got into a fight at her in-laws. She had the highest level of security clearance and worked for the federal government. She was arrested and then the charges were dropped the very next day. When her security clearance had to be updated about a year later, she lost it AND her job because of this arrest. She will never be employed by the federal government again. At least with the expunged record, she can get other employment. On some occasions, people are given the opportunity to explain the circumstances of their criminal record, but it is still a black mark and an embarassment.

So I strongly suggest you educate your kids about legal consequences for them and you.

A final note: when my oldest (then 22) moved back home while attending grad school, her classmates always went out TGIF-ing. She did not have her own car or transportation. I told her wherever she was, however late it might be - if her driver for a ride home was drunk, to call me. There would be no questions asked or repurcussions. This happened maybe three or four times over the course of the year, and I never gave her one word of grief about it.

Sweet Bajeebus, a logical mind finally speaks. Thanks you for the words of wisdom.

Seriously, when I was 18 years old, I was hit and nearly killed by a drunken driver. He lost control of his car, crossed the center line into oncoming traffic and hit the car in which I was a front seat passenger - head on! So I take the DUI issue very seriously. When I worked in the state legislature, everyone wanted to find some magical law which would effectively stop people from driving drunk. The problem is that short of incarcerating alcoholics, nothing works. Even if you take their driver's licenses away, or block them from owning cars, they will drive someone else's car - especially if they need to get to a bar or liquor store.

One very alarming issue for me is the binge drinking so very common among teens and young adults. I started law school at age 40 - Catholic law school - nearly all the students were Catholic. And a huge number of them got roaring drunk for most of the weekends - using whatever-they're-called, like funnels to drink as much as possible as quickly as possible - and drinking until they passed out. This was 20 some years ago - and from what I read, is still "in fashion".

It's sad that so many people have to get drunk to relax and have a good time.

should see the road between the University of Idaho and Washington St University on a weekend night. It's like a combat zone. My wifes a doctor and we routinely have to stop and pull out some drunk kid. She sees them every night in the emergency room, wonder if their parents let them drink at home also? Sure would have been easier to teach them the dangers of drinking. I'm not too hip on this, "we teach them the dangers of drinking by letting them drink". I may have to read up on that technique.

Gonzaga?

Experience makes alarmists of us. After a couple of years of reading medical records and autopsy protocols from various kinds of accident cases, I preach a lot of caution to friends and family. One of my lawyer friend's kids call him "Dr. Disaster", because he sees dangers all around.

gonna beat you at basketball?

Now my 1st undergrad school was Marquette, and I enjoy their wins.

Nice chattin with you - I'm on east coast time - what the hell am I doing up at 4 a.m?!?!
Good night!

really keep up with basketball :) football for me is like a religion, I never miss a game. College football that is, I don't watch pro games at all. WSU is doing OK in basketball and everyone is all excited but unless they allow tackling in basketball it's just no fun.

Because I'm 23 and I have never been interested in alcohol or getting drunk, stoned, etc... and it seems like people like me are the exception to the general rule.

And believe me, did I come from a place w/ a LOT of pot and alcohol.

you just realize that you didn't need outside stimulus to enjoy life. I know lots of college kids here who don't drink unless you consider life a drink. Pretty happy kids I might add.

I would demand it be done openly, and moderately. ie, there's a weight-based formula for deciphering how much alcohol a person can consume over X amount of time and keep a reasonable blood-alcohol level. in your home, try to keep that adhered to.

hahahahahahahahahaaa that's the best post in this thread.

My kids are years away from this even being an issue, but not as many years as I'd like... so I've been starting to think about the supervised-and-safe vs. forbidden-fruit-being-sweeter dilemma.

The cold and unfortunate fact is that some, but not all, high-schoolers go to parties where alcohol is available. And some, but not all, high-schoolers make the mistake of drinking to excess even though they know better. Fortunately or unfortunately, my own teenaged experience is no help here as I never went to any parties like that, so I don't know whether the peer pressure there is easy to resist or not.

Morally, ethically, and certainly legally, I think that allowing kids and even their friends to drink in a safe environment is wimping out. However, in the real world, the tiniest chance of a child being in a car with a drunk driver or being a drunk driver themselves is horrifying. In some situations--Exhibit A being the safety of one's children--safety trumps The Right Thing to Do.

I still haven't decided how I'd deal with this, should the question come up. I hope I'll be able to teach that alcohol needs to be consumed with caution and only by adults over 21. But I truly appreciate the honesty of the folks here who've discussed both sides of this issue. Thank you.

What I mean is that you can disapprove of the drinking, that's fine, my parents didn't like it either, except that one glass of Champagne on New Year's. However, being realistic, you should provide the kid with safe opt out options, such as offering to pick them up from any party, anywhere, at any time, if they feel they can't stay at said party. Go even further than that, and provide them with one of those pre-paid cellphones, if you don't want them to have a full contracted cellphone. Make it clear that, while you don't approve of the drinking, that they will have nothing to fear by acting responsible and calling you.

:pals:

Morgan David wine as a kid.I suffered from terrible stomach pain for a few years . I was taking chloral hydrate for that and mom would tell me to drink a shot of morgan david, that usually made me tired but it didn't stop the pain.Sleep helped because the next day the pain had stopped until the evening.

Maybe the high doses of Ritalin I was taking those years and the shit I was going through at home and school was causing stress that might have been hurting me but no doctor ever asked about THAT as a possibility...

I think the drugs the doctors had me on as a kid was just nuts. My father was a mean alcoholic. My mom a self medicating drunk that did not drink past two or three drinks.She was not violent and she never drove drunk.She's still in denial.She drinks most everyday one or two or three drinks, sometmes more and konks on the couch.

Ironically my mom was paranoid about prescribed medicines like antibiotics and anything.Anal about it, scared about the doses etc.
So both their attitudes about booze combined to make me grow up to HATE booze and hate drug abuse but not over like or fear the effects of drugs or booze but also not desire it as a coping strategy. I am not a fan of booze
I rarely drink it .

Here's something interesting the origins of addiction a study..
http://www.acestudy.org/docs/OriginsofAddiction.pdf

eighth grade. (hey! i'm still "cool"--don't get me wrong)

but i always made it clear about drinking & drugs

as she got into high school she veered off from a few of her friends who turned into stoners

and as she got older i explained to her how intolerant i would be if she decided to start drinking or doing drugs; i grew up in a family where a ton of my relatives were alcoholics and there was just no way in fucking hell that i was going to have to put up with all that crap again from my own child.

(and on the unselfish side i wasn't going to watch my child become what so many in my family became)

she had the unpleasant experience of going to a party where most of the kids were over 21 and her friend got pukey sloppy drunk. (she didn't drink--she drove)

after that (maybe a month or two later) she tells me she wants to try alcohol. i bought a four pack of some wine cooler and we both drank one while we watched a movie. that was a few months ago. the other two are still in the little cardboard case.

i'm lucky she really isn't that curious or interested in drinking. maybe it was the little bits and pieces of personal family stories i told her through the years (including one about my cousin who was killed by a drunk driver).

i've told her that if she was going to start doing that shit she'd have to move the hell out of the house. (what i would actually do if it happened remains to be seen, however--but apparently i sound tough and horrible enough when i say it that she believes me)

then...as a reminder to her...i was telling her about a topic i heard on the randi rhodes show--and googled an article on it. it was talking about if you've ever had a DUI then you probably can't get into canada.

i told her "i've always thought of canada as a safe-haven, and if things get too horrible here then canada would be the place to go. but now they're not letting americans with DUIs enter their country. and how sad would that be if i couldn't take you with me. or if you couldn't go there if you had to. just keep that in mind even when you're over 21 and think you want to have a few drinks."

(http://www.smartertravel.com/travel-advice/old-dui-stay-away-from-canada.html?id=2327630)

after rereading this i guess i sound like a real bitch--and i admit i am a bitch sometimes. but i adore my daughter, i'm so proud of her, we get along famously the majority of the time, we're very close, we talk & laugh & hug, we say: "love you, bye" before we hang up, we say: "goodnight. i love you." "i love you too" before she goes to bed. she's very easy going and while i am fairly easy going a lot of the time i stand firm on this drinking business.

were the "cool" Mom and a parent, good job. You did a GREAT job, hope you don't get called a dick like I did in this thread for keeping your child safe. I should alert on that post but I think I'll let it stand and see how mean some people can be when they offer nothing else to the discussion.

sorry to read about the name calling.

but sometimes I think the notion of, "keeping the kids close" is robbing them of youth. I know everyone wants to keep them safe but to sacrifice law and respect doesn't seem right to me. If you can't love and teach your kids underage drinking is wrong and let them drink in the house then how do people really believe they are going to do the "right" thing out in public? I would rather rely on trust and respect than being locked down at home.

I was young enough that I don't really remember when I was first allowed to drink a little wine with dinner. I've never had a problem with alcohol and the last time I got sloppy drunk was on my 30th birthday which is twenty seven years ago now.

Shy people who have a hard time mingling with others often have much more outgoing personalities after a couple of drinks. I was terribly shy as a child and young adult and a little alcohol made it much easier to loosen up and have fun with friends.

We didn't drink much when we were raising our daughter but alcohol was not verboten either. She got sloppy drunk once at her high school graduation party and decided that it wasn't for her.

I don't think there is a solution for drunk drivers, at least habitual ones, short of incarcerating them for life. We already have an incarceration rate seven times that of Canada proportional to population and it doesn't seem to have done a lot of good.

Frankly, I would rather see my child smoking pot than drinking to excess, it's a far safer drug and much less addictive than alcohol.

occasionally, but he's not really fussed about it one way or the other. He and his friends are all 15-16.

In the UK, it's legal for people to buy beer or wine when they're in restaurants (proper restaurants, not pubs or fast food places) at the age of 16 anyway, so we figured we needed to introduce him to responsible drinking. Kids always want the forbidden fruit, so we figured if we didn't make a big deal about it, he wouldn't want to do it so badly. So far, it's worked.

mixed drink before meals was given to everyone over 14 when my relatives gathered.

I think it reduced the temptation to abuse alcohol. I didn't have to sneak around to drink. I associated drinking with my boring old relatives, so it was never particularly thrilling for me.

North Americans have a warped attitude toward booze. They're told that it's absolutely forbidden before a certain age, so they start drinking without adult supervision, which means that they drink to get drunk.

If I had teenagers, I'd raise them the way I was raised: wine with meals on special occasions, maybe one beer at a backyard barbecue.

You didn't drink to get high. That's the problem with Americans, they drink with the exact purpose of getting drunk and no other reason. In European cultures drunkeness is frowned upon.

such a common problem with young people in the US. Much more healthy to be raised in an environment where a glass of wine with dinner or a drink or two at a family gathering is no big deal. The 21 drinking age really magnifies the "forbidden fruit" effect, and IMO makes drinking more of a problem in this country than it would otherwise be - agree with you that we US'ers have a warped attitude toward booze.

Seven years ago my son (then age 11) went with my sister and I to clean up my oldest sister's apartment when she went to jail on drug possession charges (heroin-30 year alcohol/drug abuser). He also met my brother (age 45) that passed away last month with alcoholism as a contributing cause.

He knows that both my mother and father were alcoholics (my mom died w/15 years sobriety).

He had many high school friends that had alcoholic parents. He has watched some of his high school friends drink themselves to oblivion and held their hands while they puked their guts out in a bathroom (at his 18 YO friend's house, that mother recently implemented a no alcohol rule despite age of drinker, many friends are over 21, yes, her son was one of the pukers).

My son has no desire to drink and I think his first hand experiences played a MAJOR role in his decision. I have no alcohol in the house and consume maybe 4-5 single drinks in a year (yes, I did have drinking problems in high school and college/single parenthood put a stop to that).


My boyfriend has two daughters that have older boyfriends and all four drink to excess. He allowed the younger daughter (at 17) to drink at home, with the rational that at least he knew where she was. She is now 19 and has what I believe is a drinking problem. This is a college town and her favorite thing to do is to "crash" frat parties that have kegers. She is not enrolled in college and is only working part time leaving plenty of time for partying. Her uncle died in January (pulmonary edema) and I believe his years of alcohol/drug abuse were a contributing factor (no drugs or alcohol found during autopsy-he had been off drugs for two years). Her grandmother is an alcoholic. Her father (my BF) seldom drinks.

I think a large factor is determined by genetic make-up and I am fully aware that I (and most family members) have an addictive, compulsive personality and if I did not make a conscious effort to not drink/do drugs I could easily become an addict. My son also shows these same tendencies. Luckily, we both channel these compulsions into other, more productive areas.

Alcohol IS A DRUG.

THe argument that someone can be asked to fight in a war at 18 and should also be able to drink at 18 is a straw man argument and should only apply to those that actually serve. Then again check the alcohol/drug abuse rates among veterans and maybe drinking at age 18 is really not such a great idea.

My comments are not aimed at families that have an occasional glass of wine with dinner, but are focused on kids (and their friends) that bring home six-pacs of bottles of wine so they can "party".

... that I could drink at home only on the weekends. They would not buy the alcohol for me so by buying it I had to take the risk of being arrested (easy to expunge, but still a bitch to deal with). No parties. I was limited to having two friends over, and they had to stay over night. Once I started drinking, I was not allowed outside the house for any reason and neither were my friends. They also limited the amount I could drink in a de facto way by having some harsh physical labor for me to do the next day which would be immensely painful to do hung over.

If I stayed over at a friends house for the night they would call my cell phone to listen to my speech. If it was slurred they would come get me where ever I was (very embarrassing). They would also call me very early in the morning and question me at length. This served a dual purpose: 1. They would find out what I did (they were very thorough) 2. If I were hung over it would be very hard to carry one a conversation with my Mother's high pitched voice.

They coupled all this with a lifetime of explaining to me the dangers of drinking and falling victim to peer pressure. They knew I was going to do my own thing, but they still set limits that I had to follow.

It's important to know your kids, and know what limits you can set on them.

responsible, yet we know they drink occasionally at parties. We worry about it and talk to them, but we know it doesn't stop entirely. We certainly don't allow any drinking at home by them or others and try to talk to them about the reasons for not drinking so they can make their own decisions -- after all, they're gone from the house in five months to college (and they're thinking of UC Santa Barbara and UC Santa Cruz!! Yikes...).

Diverman makes some great points that we will re-enphasize with them and then cross our fingers.

I say "Go For It!" But, if you allow underage drinking in your home, and then someone gets injured or killed, be prepared for the lawsuit. Personally, I'd sue you for everything you own, everything you ever will own, and then some. I don't care if your son thinks your a hypocrite or "not cool" -- if your "parenting style" results in MY CHILD or MY HUSBAND being injured or killed, I'm going to OWN YOU (and him) for the rest of your lives.

Then again, I got to attend the funeral of an 18 year old last summer who died due to alcohol abuse. (His family isn't talking about whether or not drugs were involved, but he got drunk, and didn't wake up.) He was on a camping trip with his friends -- no driving was involved. It was sad, but the saddest part was how preventable it was. They buried him with some cards because he loved to play poker....:(

If your son wants to drink at age 18, then I would suggest he not do it in your home. Perhaps a discussion on how "if you are old enough to not obey the rules in my home, you are old enough to live on your own?" may be in order. (I'm not suggesting you kick him out, really; I'm suggesting you decide what risks you are willing to take to accommodate his recreational law breaking.)

FYI -- I've been on my own since I was 17 -- and drinking/illegal drugs had NOTHING to do with it.

Good luck!

God forbid a half drunk friend of your kids slams his car into some innocent person just driving home, or some pedestrian. THEY will sue too, since the accident can be pinned on the alcohol, which was illegally provided by a friends parent. Those parents can count on a big damage claim.

First off, I believe that each kid handles this issue differently. Some kids have addictive patterns that most parents should have been able to spot, and that would influence your decision on whether to assist your kid in drinking before it's legal. Bottom line, only you know your kid and only you can make the right decision although I would hope you wouldn't let your son drive after he's been drinking at home. I would however, not serve alcohol to anyone else's kid at my house - that way lies disaster.

So my situation:
My father is an alcoholic, my husband's father was an alcoholic so my kids have seen it up close and personal. They've been told since they were very young that they were at genetic risk of alcoholism if they started drinking so we started out with that.

We only serve alcohol at holidays and don't keep it in the house regularly so we've always modelled that alcohol is for us, a special occasion kind of thing. Besides, it's expensive and although we could afford it now, we always made sure they knew that if they got into the habit of drinking it was going to cost. Since they/we work really hard for our dollars - the cost of stuff is a factor for them.

When my oldest daughter was 16 years old, she was offered a glass of champagne by a friend at a New Year's Eve party. My kids are very picky eaters and hate "wierd" tasting stuff - I shrugged and let her taste it. Of course, she hated it cause it tasted "awful" to her and she wasn't pressured to finish. (FYI - this goes along with how I treat food and eating at my house: nobody is forced to eat anything they don't like or "clean their plate". They will grow into food preferences and it always seemed wrong to force them to eat). She doesn't drink now (she's 19 - a junior in college) and even though we have long since offered her alcohol at meals during the holidays, she won't touch it. I know, I know, it's possible she drinks elsewhere but her friends are always ragging on her cause she won't drink and she is always the DD.

Lastly, we are farmers and my kids work HARD. They are up really early and they work. That's hard to do if you're hung over or stayed out too late. There's no slacking off and I always used to remind my older girl before she went out in the evening that she had chores at 6 am the next morning. She's also an athlete and drinking just didn't work with trying to excel at her sport. So one piece of advice would be to make sure your kids are busy! Preferably they will be too tired to drink, or too wrapped up/excited about their hobby/sport/music or whatever whereby drinking will just get in the way of success at their chosen pursuit.

at Sunday dinner from we were teens and we do the same with the next generation. That way no one needs binge drinking and one or two drinks is more than enough.

Alcohol in small amounts can be tolerated by the human body- one or two drinks. After that it starts to tax the liver and parts of the brain. Yet,our culture promotes drinking. The saddest thing to experience is a teenage car wreck because of drinking. This happens in a very small number per capita. We are a culture without proper initiation into adulthood. Drinking takes the place of this initiation. It is a losing battle with the media. Booze is good-your local booze distributor.

I kept most of my drinking on or around campus in college. If my older brother and I drank together before I was 21, my mom would not make a big deal of it. She bought alcohol for me a couple of times when I was 20-a six pack of beer once and a bottle of wine another time.

Considering my dad was an alcoholic with a full bar in the basement, my parents managed to maintain the standard at least until we were over 18.

and her friends are welcome as long as they aren't drinking, smoking or otherwise ingesting things they are not legally allowed to. I hope the values I have instilled in her will see her through, but I'm not bending to the pressure of "they're going to do it anyway". I've told her if she's going to be stupid to at least call me for a ride. So far, she hasn't been stupid. I know this because she's here most Friday and Saturday nights.

I've seen the affect of teen binge drinking. I only worked there for less then two years before I moved on, but in that time I had two teens come in for acute alcohol poisoning. One died, the other almost did. Teens are always going to be attracted to at risk behaviors. Their adolescents for christ's sake. It's up to the adults in their lives to teach them how to be responsible. No one else will.

I have one 17 year old straight edger and a 20 year old that was straight edge up until recently.
The 17 year old is planning a beach week after HS graduation and is emphatic that there be no drinking in the house.
The 20 year old didn't drink until he started traveling to Europe and now only has an occasional beer with me when he comes home to visit.

:kick:

rights in what he does although you can draw limits in what you will tolerate in your home. I personally would rather know that they are drinking in order to sound the alarm if it's becoming a problem. Usually, kids that age curtail the drinking once they get sick or or hungover one time too many.

out and about. Rather than drinking and driving, they can drink at home. If they ever do drink and drive, they will lose the privledge.

Sorry. If they are caught doing it in your home (getting ratted out), you will be the one who goes to jail for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. I could lose my livelihood for that.
However, I warn my 21-year old about hanging out with her younger friends...if there is alcohol, she will be the one that goes to jail regardless of where it came from.
Best to avoid that altogether.
I did find some pot in my youngest daughter's drawer. She was "holding" it for someone.:eyes:
Anyway, what that bought her was random searches of her room.
I'm not going to jail or risk losing my nurses license for my kids or their friends.

Growing up, we would just hide everything from our parents, and drank until we got totally wasted, and often end up vomitting, passing out hugging the toilet seat. It took a while to actually learning my limits.

If people drank with their parents first, they will better understand their limits and how to drink responsibly. Also it would make drinking less cool and rebellious so I don't think teens will have as much incentive to binge they way they do.

I understand why you would feel your kids are safer drinking at home under your supervision. However, that won't protect you, legally. So I don't have an answer. It's difficult. I would probably go with keeping them safer and drinking at home because I would figure their safety is more important than me being fined if we ever got caught.
Lee

A woman who lived about 20 miles from me is sitting in a jail cell right now, looking at a long prison term for doing just that. She let her kids, along with their friends, have a party and drink in her home. She eventually shut the party down, sent them home, and one of the teen drivers (who hadn't even been drinking) rolled his pickup with 10 or 12 kids in the back. It was a mess, but luckily nobody died.

She, however, is sitting in jail and probably won't see freedom for years.

So here's the catch 22. In most states, it's legal to let your kid drink in your house under supervision. In practically EVERY state, it's illegal to provide alcohol to ANYONE ELSES kid. Get caught and you go to jail. So you can give your kid alcohol, so long as he or she is happy drinking alone. Since most teens drink for social reasons, this obviously presents a problem.

Personally, I'm a bit of a hardass. My rule is "No drinking in my house while you're still living here." If my kids move out at 18 or 19, and want to come back and enjoy a beer with dad, I have no problem with that. If my kids think they can pop a Fat Tire with dad at 16, they've got another thing coming. I have the same rule about sex.

And, by all rights, I probably should have died in a DUI-related car accident.

If your son is drinking responsibly at home, you should thank your deity and not harass him about it.

We talk about it alot. We talk about the life changing consequences, how drinking effects teens differently and past family history of alcholism. My oldest is 16 and doesn't have much opportunity to drink. I know many teens drink, but many others don't. I won't always be there watching them so I am hoping I have laid a good foundation for them. I feel the best thing I can do is keep talking to them and to keep re-enforcing the good choices they have made so far. I also make sure they are surrounded by good people who can have a good time without intoxication.