So, all the religious pandering at the DNC didn't do a damn thing to the polls..

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/31/obama.mccain.poll/index.html

Pretty much like I thought, those religious folks whose values line up with the Dem platform were going to vote Dem anyway and those religious folks whose values line up with the Republicans were going to vote for Republicans.

The Dems managed to irritate quite a few people who should be among their strongest supporters with the non stop religious pandering and they have gotten zero benefit from it.

As much as we like to say that Americans are stupid, they're not, they can tell when they're being pandered to at least some of the time. Stupid and ignorant are not the same thing, Americans may be ignorant but they're not stupid enough to fall for that ridiculous show of blatant religiosity in Denver.

Net gain from "acknowledging God".. ZERO!!

That's for starters..

from about 6pm (when I got home from work) until it ended every night and I did not see anything about a prayer breakfast. My viewing of the convention was not what the average person would do. They normally tune in on a network to watch the major speeches during prime time.

The only religious display I saw was the closing prayer and I don't see how that could affect the polls.

Honestly, theists really don't notice all the religious references that are made.

It's kind of like getting a new car, you've never really noticed that particular model on the road before, but all of a sudden you see them everywhere.. Why is this? Because you have been sensitized to it.

Many non religious people are sensitized to religious speech in a political context, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to us.

Some of them may have become nauseous at the very mention of "God", so it was actually better that they not be there.:sarcasm:

It's grating to be deliberately excluded, even when you don't want to be there in the first place.

There were people invited whose political positions were in direct opposition to the Democratic platform.

Why was that?

I completely understand that the non-religious have nothing to add at an INTERFAITH meeting. Atheism is not another religion.

I certainly am not happy with the extent to which religion has become a litmus test in this country, but you won't win any respect from the religious by demanding to go to their meetings on the basis that you think their beliefs are wrong.

a non-religious belief, atheist, agnostic, whatever could not have had a similar undertaking. Where was it said they were not welcome other than you.

Apparently our type is not welcome there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=263x33977

what do you mean by they were 'not welcome'...? :shrug:

I just don't want them shoved in my face during a political campaign where they are neither relevant nor appropriate.

It's repugnant when the Repugs do it and it's even more so when the Dems follow their odious lead.

do that. There has always been some prayers at the convention and Barack is as religious as anyone, no more, no less, but did he pander? No.

Infinitely more than me, and lots of other Americans too.

And yes, it's pandering to talk about your religion all the damn time during a political campaign.

Don't tell me you're a Christian, let me figure it out.

maybe you should think about who`s running these polls and why. blaming people of faith for the "no bounce" is nonsense.

I said people weren't fooled, how is that blaming them?

the first I have seen where someone is saying they pandered.

And 32 recommends.

Talking about how the non religious were completely ignored during the DNC..

All it did was make for bad blood, all of the religionists spent the year prior to the Convention making attempts to keep the DNC from seeking GLBT representation in the delegation. Also trying to alienate the pro-chioce majority of our Party.

convention and Barack of pandering to religion. Since you brought it up, maybe you can help us all by filling in the details where this was done.

Go back and watch the convention on Youtube or whatever.

Every time someone mentions "faith" or "God" or references religion in any way take a shot. This particularly includes the phrase "God Bless America", which is never uttered as a prayer or request, but rather as a command.

When you wake up, get back with us. If your head doesn't hurt too bad to look at a computer screen.

So no, that's not my problem.

These are the words of your prophet. Follow them. I did not even imply that Obama pandered personally at the convention. Those are words you are placing in my mouth.
If you really want to know all the details of how the reiligionists attempted to prevent the Party from seeking GLBT representation in the delegation, of course you can find out yourself. This is our Party. Why don't you know already?
Do you know who Leah Daughtry is? Let's start there. Do you know what the DNC is? Are you aware of the position held by Dr Dean? Do you know about the ligigation? Do you know about Leah's eventual 'apology'?
And let me be very clear to you, oh posturing one: I did not say nor imply that Barack Obama pandered at this convention. That is a lie you made up. Yes, a lie. Let your yea be yea, or your Christianism looks shallow and false.
Did you know that Christ insturcted his people to never ever pray in public like the fakes, but to go into private to pray? He said those who pray in public are just making a show for other people's benefit, and that God does not even hear those prayers. Did you know that? It is your religion, funny you would not know that you are specifically commanded not to engage in public prayer. You are here defending an action that Christ taught directly against. Why is that?

This one poll proves absolutely nothing.

I'd love to see them.

What a stupid fucking post.

just hard to ignore stupidity sometimes.

This is a vomitous post that the O/P is using to key on their personal pet peeve - at the expense of most everybody else here. Oh, and very few people saw religious references on TV. This person is basically indicting Obama in this post and should stop being an ass hole.

Biden creams the repuke VP pick in a head to head poll.

However, this bs about Barack pandering on religion was the biggest pile of crap I have seen. First of all, Barack doesn't pander because he doesn't need to. In fact, remember when he made a comment to the effect of "I don't do pandering". That convention will probably go down in history as the most successful, most organized and overall a great convention where they did exactly everything they wanted to do and the media said they had to do.

I didn't expect a lot of movement in todays climate, but it's reassuring that even though McCain tried to blunt the effect of the convention with the Palin announcement, the 8 point lead in the other poll is reassuring. This poster is clearly a person with an agenda - not to be listened too. Their idiotic "I love you" reply says all I need to know about them.

and because talking to dogmatic folks is a losing prop anyway. They don't even know the Book they claim to follow, making discussion impossible.

Done with this stupid post.

I never said Barack pandered, you said I said that. I made many points, from the inner workings of the DNC to the actual words of Jesus about prayer, and you are unable or unwilling to address any of those points. Instead you lie to put words into my mouth.
You prove my point. You are not an honest broker of discussion. My post is there for all to see. So is yours. For all to see, above and below. And with that, I say again, good luck to you.

convention, he made the decision on what was going to go on and that would include to pander or not to pander and he doesn't pander. Get it. You should have turned the convention off since you are so upset about all the pandering you said he did.

And yes, I took issue with having to ligitate to get my community supported, and having to fight religionists to acheive that. I did not say Barack pandered at the convention, no matter how much you try to make your lie a truth.
Why will you not address the words of Jesus of Nazareth, who called all public prayer false excersize for the agendas of men, and clearly said such prayer is not heard by God? How about that?
There are actual issues here, important to our Party and to our nation. Important even to the churches of the world. You refuse to discuss any of the actual salient points and instead keep insisting that I said what I did not say.
The convention was by and large a rousing sucess. OUR nominee, Barack Obama gave a wonderful speech indeed. But there were, as a matter of fact, some divisions drawn by the Pentacostal and Evangelical factions, they insisted on certain events and actions, insisted that some Demcorats be excluded, and these issues and battles were going on long before Senator Obama was our nominee, long before the convention. The point is that the display of religionism did not win us the votes of the religionists, who are still on the other side. The display of religionism also gave many of us qualms about our future place in this party, a place we have fought for diligently for decades now.
But go on ahead and ignore what is said to you clearly and directly, and make any inferrence you wish. I'm not sure if you are unable to read, or simply unwilling to discuss actual facts.
People have differeing opinions. The religionist displays are a turn off to me, as they have no place in politics, and such displays cheapen both the political and the religious aspects of the events.
Leah Daughtry pandered at the convention, there's a name for you. It was done, and it did not result in any gains for us as a Party.
But go on ahead and tell me what I said again. My posts are here to read. They are clear. This is not my first convention, nor will it be my last. How my Party is run is something I spend time on...I attend my state's platform conventions, vote for delegates,the works. Do you? What basis do you stand upon when you tell other Demcorats how they should think?
One can have qualms with tactics and still think the convention, OUR convention, was an over all sucess. The first day glitches were ironed out quickly, and I will even go so far as to say that the bigoted Ms Daughtry even took heed on day one and pulled it tighter. So even she was not a complete waste, she did some things right. She did not need to be so prejudiced toward others not like herself in the long months of planning the convention.
Yes. It takes months to plan such an event, and most of that work is done prior to a nominee being selected.
Another fact filled post for you to reduce to 'you said barack pandered' which I did not, and my posts are here to read. As are yours.

The persons point is mute since nobody saw this stuff.

Basically they are calling Obama a failure.

I think the word you seek is 'moot'. Mute means silent or unable to speak. Mute is what the reiligionists want the GLBT community to be. Moot is the result of attempts to win dogmatists votes for our Party.
The events many question were in fact in place prior to the election of our nominee. It is not about Senator Obama's actions at the convention, which were outstanding. In fact, Obama's speech contained some language that I was very happy to hear, that I know did not please Daughtry, or the various evangelicals who sprayed and prayed for the public's sake.
Bear in mind, the reiligionsits stand against equal rights for my family. I will not be mute because that issue is not moot. I stand for my family, and my Party.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/08/praying-in-jesuss-name-at-the.html

The Democrats invited two prominent evangelical pastors to pray before the convention - and each took a different approach than Graham.

Donald Miller, a popular Christian author, tried to solve the dilemma through intonation, closing his prayer with the words. "I make this request in name of Jesus Christ." He put a strong emphasis on the first word.

Joel Hunter, an evangelical pastor from Florida, closed the final prayer of the convention by asking the crowd to utter the words they usually do during prayer. At the count of three, Hunter then declared, "in the name of Jesus Christ" while the 80,000 other people offered a variety of different words.

Did you just step off a banana boat?

Now you say that no one saw it.

You really should make up your mind.

Oh, and insults only make you appear weak and childish, they do nothing for your argument.

This stuff happens and has happened FOREVER!!

Since when did you discover this?

You are very naive.

For something that "nobody saw" it sure is easy to find.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b79m3fJfmuA

This is a disgusting display of naivety that makes me :puke:

It didn't happen..

Nobody saw it.

Which is it?

I'm voting for Obama but that doesn't mean I have to like every single thing he says or does.

Call me grasping at straws if you want, but I can and will say the same about you - and you started this crap.

Edit:typo

So, which was it?

Didn't happen?

Nobody saw it?

You have made both claims and the one puts the lie to the other.

You are starting to look like an ass by pretending to not comprehend what I am saying.

You started this hatefest, you have to live with the consequences flamestarter.

You're an attack dog against Obama - why don't you go somewhere where people want to discuss your mindless hatred?

And I don't hate anyone, except maybe Ctheney.

I am very uncomfortable though watching the Dems follow the the Reps down the path of mixing religion with politics, it harms both religion and politics to do that.

... by all reports, were all religious men.

But certainly none of them tried to push their religion as a reason to be elected president, as does this nauseating advert.

Kennedy, in fact, had to defend being a Catholic.

The times they are a changing - BACK: Back to the 12th century.

Already this country has reverted to a test of religious faith for any public office.

With luck, we will soon be as Godly and Faith-based a society as Saudi-Arabia.

God Bless!

BTW, the lights on the cross are cool (Apparently the Divine Light within was not bright enough). Especially in view of the fact that many people crucified by the Romans (and they were legion) were 'crucified' on a simple pole, with their hands raised above their heads (much cheaper). So it is possible that the cross should simply be a stake - which was made very popular by His Holy Church in later centuries, and so, with a suitable heretic writhing in the flames, a post should, perhaps, be the symbol of the Christers. It would look even cooler if using those little flashing microlights for the fire which consumes as it cleanses the heretic.

Just what I want in a president: Someone who hears voices in his head from the Master, and Creator, of the Universe.

Why do "X"? Because GOD commands it.

Where "X" = any act, but especially horrible and barbarous ones. EG: Why invade Iran, Why fly the planes into the Twin Towers, Why kill the Jews, Why kill the Arabs, Why, Why, Why cannot we give up these savage superstitions from before the dawn of history?

If we are doomed, it is not because God Commands, but because we believe - we believe when we should reason.

:sarcasm:

Why am I completely unsurprised by the reaction I'm getting from all the theists?

so the rest of what we say and do are valued.

The other theists on this thread will not even allow themselves to see this.

The Dems are chasing the evangelical vote.

Everyone reading this knows that, you are not fooling anyone with your feigned ignorance.

I will wait for the poster to say not you.

:eyes:

Barack won.

That was so comforting to hear when the Republicans said it in 2001, eh?

I bet you really enjoyed that..

Very anti-war and anti-Republican in general. All Christians are not whack-jobs!

You are responding to things no one has said.

...by suggesting that this remote issue is why the Dems didn't get a bigger bump.

You are essentially giving our enemy a perfect example to site when suggesting the Dem convention was a failure.

If you had any real concept about todays divided politics, you would realize that very few Republicans watch these things, similar to how I will not watch the Republican convention. We are extremely divided as a nation at this time. You're not helping.

all be better off, but none of them do

anyway, who gives a shit about the insignificant fucked in the head few who were irritated.