Keep hearing.. are people really that stupid?

My answer is "Yes they are!".

For years now we have been railing against the media, but I don't think from our informed viewpoint a.k.a., using other media sources, that we really understand just how well the media has brainwashed a large segment of the population.

We can say anything we want to about FOX news. The fact is people watch FOX news, and they take whatever is stated as the truth. Once they are hooked they are not going to be looking at anything else or changing their minds. You can look at them with shocked disbelief all you want, and they will still happily skip over the cliff that the news media has told them to jump off of.

Many people DO have an American Idol mindset! In a Republican forum that I happened to participate in the other day, comments were like this.

"I watched John McCain Revealed on FOX". "I really like him better now, I love it when people come out and tell the TRUTH about themselves". ( I didn't watch this so I have no idea.. WHAT exactly was revealed? )

"Palin is a person I look up to very much and would love to be like" - from a woman. (Doesn't know anything about Palin)
"Palin is hot! So is her husband!" (Guess that is why they are voting for them)
"I was a Hillary Supporter - I am PUMA watch me roar!" (Totally ignorant of who they are supporting)

Now when I attempted to discuss Palin's views, I was seen as a troll and kicked. However, I found that supporters I have talked to do not know ANY of Palin's views. Folks they don't know anything about her and if you try to educate them, you will not get anywhere because the real authority to these people is FOX news. Okay? And YOU are not an authority, FOX is!

Would these people vote for Sarah Palin or John McCain if they really knew the issues or their candidates extremism? No. They wouldn't. But they have been brainwashed into thinking this is an American Idol contest, a feel good football game where their team is going to win and anything that comes out negative true or not, is a threat to their team and their game. When the game is over, should their team win, they will feel good about it for awhile, and then go back to their miserable issue driven lives. Hell some might lose their jobs and some might even become homeless due to the candidate they supported, but they will never ever ever see that! They won that game and that is all that matters. To try to change their minds is as frustrating as trying to help an addict see that their addiction is going to kill them. Most often it doesn't work!

Are people that stupid? YES. The Media has successfully done their job.

These people feel GOOD about their choice of McCain and Palin, in a purely American Idol way, and if they were racist? Well there is even more to feel GOOD about. You are not going to be able to take their bottle away - sorry. And that is regardless of the obvious reality surrounding these folks who drink from the bottle of denial daily.

Is this a culture war? You bet it is! And if you think that issues, facts and truth are going to win the election, I have a really big worry.

I worked with someone who "hated" Kerry because she did not likethe texture of his hair.

TV in general, poor schools, whatever the cause, you can be sure that more people vote for or against a candidate for idiotic reasons than for real substance.

Another reason why we MUST get every possible voter out and voting Democratic in this election.

mark

and we are all deeply screwed because of it.

And sadly, you are dead on.

Try watching this movie sometime. It's supposed to be a comedy by Mike Judge, the creator of 'Beavis And Butthead', 'King Of The Hill', and of course 'Office Space.'

However, what it really turns out to be is A Documentary on the American mentality.

The funniest movie you will never laugh at, because it's too horrifying.

thanks

and even wanted to amend the constitution so he could run for president. They don't even want to talk about him anymore. It wasn't a secret that he was an environmentalist and held interests at odds with the rabid conservatives who rushed to put him in office. These people just don't think. They were bedazzled by this big movie star with an "R" after his name and they got him. Now they want to recall him.

I truly believe that is when the McCain/Palin ticket becomes unraveled.

the debates might make us feel as if we could do nothing BUT win. Then we will be scratching our heads again when this happens:

Prediction:

Media will cover the debates in a negative way because our candidates talked.. boring issues. Yup yup! And they will wax poetic about how good Palin looked and how she is so hot in those glasses! Or what she wore. The issues will be swept under a rug. Then the elitist label will come out. If Obama and Biden are seen to be using their brains - then they are elitist. What the country should really be focused on is fashion and empty feel good sound bites.

Obama and Biden tell the people what they plan on doing, but in a plain spoken way. They are using the "sound byte" phylosiphy of the right, but mixing it with smart thinking. I think our party has learned from the debate mistakes of Kerry and Gore.

Even if they have total meltdowns, the corporate media will fawn over their performances...and they'll have poll after poll reflecting the public's approval of their performances.

You know it's coming.

I think you're right. I have said much the same thing for some time now.

I do. This is what happened in my life: I graduated from college in 1990, reign of Bush 1, to a stagnant economy and, soon, a war for oil. It was a stupid, shitty presidency, and the republicans rightfully lost in 1992.

Clinton somehow turned the economy around on a dime. We had eight peaceful years -- the few international conflicts were acceptably managed and peace rapidly restored. Things got better and better. Too good, maybe. Maybe we got complacent and lazy.

All HELL broke loose the minute Bush got in office and began exploiting the country for the benefit of his cronies. That's what it's all been about, from the beginning. EVERYTHING has deteriorated -- economy, international relations. Even people's life expectancy is looking worse. I've read that children born today might not live as long as their parents.

Hellooo -- anyone see a pattern here??? And they somehow think the republicans will make things BETTER? Since when have they done that? Not in my lifetime.

:banghead:

you are looking at reality and want to make things better for yourself and others. People who support this administration do not look at reality even when that reality hurts! It is because reality hurts that they want pablum. They are in denial, and they just hope that things will get better but they don't make the connection to the fact that their own choices have made things worse.

If McCain wins, I'm disconnecting from politics forever. Because it will have ceased to make any sense. What's the point of working hard to get a good candidate elected if all your efforts are just smoke in the wind, if logical arguments are ignored in favor of crazy shit like "I'm a pitbull with lipstick"?

If McCain wins, our democracy will have shown itself to be a failure. I really believe that. True democracy depends on citizens making rational, informed decisions, not gut feelings based on nebulous fears fanned by propagandists. That's why we have public education, so that citizens don't fall for that garbage.

say what you want to...call me names, but I will just quit.

My life is half over, and I don't want to spend another eight years being depressed about the state of my formerly beautiful country.

I will focus my loyalties on my local community, and my state, which now has an awesome new Democratic governer. (Go Patterson!!)

Wanna get a wingnut in a tizzy? Mention class and he/she will go off on how the poor want to suck off the "hard workin'"...a longtime codeword for racism and sexism. They were also browbeaten into thinking they are "entitled to tax cuts" (talk about an oxymoron). No matter how much a tax is cut, it's not enough and they assume that all these government systems they use just appear out of nowhere. They have been dumbed down to think that the GOOP, since they're the "party of money" (while we here call it GREED), they are better at running a government they're hell-bent on sinking down a bathtub. Contradictions and hypocrisies aside, it's another of the dog whistles that play into the culture wars.

What we're seeing in a ploy to use the culture war game to bury the class war that the GOOP leadership saw it was and is losing bad. To focus on the economy is sure doom...they have an inept candidate who wasn't cutting it, thus Rove, Schmidt and Davis brought in Palin to jazz up both the fundies and shake things up...roll the dice. Yes, I still consider it a very cynical and desperate move. They had to turn the election into voting for prom king and queen cause if its issues based, they don't stand a chance...just on their own largess more than anything else.

The distortion that I think you're feeling is coming from the corporate media and the beltway bubble that dominates the coverage of this election. The cables have annointed themselves as movers and shakers in this process...and it's led to a lot of the bitter partisanship and divisions that they exploit for ratings and profits. It also works into the culture war and class war mold as it dumbs down the discourse so that issues can and do get buried.

That said...there's a new media that has evolved...the netroots and a growing grassroots movement for change that lies outside the beltway bubble and has been vastly underestimated and underated as they don't see it directly (we don't show up at their drinkie-drinkie parties) or on their "likely voter" models. Thus don't let the distorted view of the corporate media worry you...let it energize instead. Let us show strength and ram it up their backsides...change isn't just in the government, but the entire corrupt corporate culture that exploits rather than unites people.

Cheers...

Their job is to keep as many as possible dumbed down. The problem for them is that there are more people like us who are turning to the internet and foreign press for information. There are times when I feel that all of this is hopeless and frustrating but, more often than not lately, I have been hopeful.

We also have a responsibility, those of us who have open eyes to what is going on, to educate our kids and (as much as possible) our families. That is one of the ways that we can combat the apathy and ignorance that seems to be so prevalent these days.

I didn't see too many of them as long as Obama was ahead in the polls, but the post-convention bounce has put McCain ahead temporarily, they are starting again.

Fortunately in 2006, the "sheeple" were able to see through the RW BS and spanked the repubs big time. (Not that the Democratic congress has done much with that mandate.) So far in 2008 this is the first week that the "sheeple" have faltered and that is temporary in the wake of hours and hours of concentrated repub BS.

When we win or are leading, "The people are with us and see through the MSM and RW BS. We're all sticking it to the failed Bush administration and his designated successor." When we lose or are behind (even if only temporarily), we blame Rove and the MSM for leading the American "sheeple" astray.

Sure the repubs always simply issues (often to the point of absurdity) and push hot button issues that motivate some voters. Sometimes this is successful, sometimes it isn't. It failed in 2000 (Gore got more votes) and 2006. It succeeded in 2002 (post 9/11 sentiment helped them, too) and 2004. Since 1992 Democrats have received more presidential votes in three of the four elections.

Our job as a political party is to win elections either by staying true to our ideals and convincing (or motivating) voters to support our ideals or to "more accurately" assess where voters are "at", so that we can compete for their votes. In either approach it does us no good to trash voters with labels of "sheeple" or "stupid". Aside from being unhelpful electorally, it makes us look like the "elitists" that repubs like to portray us as.

"it makes us look like the "elitists" that repubs like to portray us as"

The repubs are going to portray us as elitists no matter how we approach things. Nor will they bat an eyelash at our calling them sheep or stupid, because we have been doing that for quite some time now and it really doesn't make any difference.

Trying to enable the addict by sitting down with them over a nice glass of tea to watch FOX news is not going to help.

What will help? Understanding how this war is being fought. You are correct in that the dumb down strategy worked in 2002 and 2004. That is 8 years! 8 Years this strategy has worked!

If McCain and Palin ARE elected? And the country goes even deeper into a tailspin? Yes people will complain loudly I assure you, just like they have been doing these last 8 years! The same people who will elect these people will be the ones that complain, but they will never see the connection. Think about it. Would you have guessed that with the most unpopular president in history that McCain and Palin who represent more of the same would be so high in the polls? Are you scratching your head? I'm not.

"quite some time", but the "repubs are going to portray us as elitists no matter" what we do. They will certainly stick to their talking points. They are good at that, but I would call any group a bunch of elitists (actually "elitists" would be the nicest term I would call them) if they referred to another group (voters, women, minorities, etc.) as "sheep" and "stupid".

I don't believe that I recommended a "nice glass of tea" with the repubs. I stated that calling voters "stupid" and "sheeple" plays into the hands of the repubs by helping them make a phony case that we are "elitists". By the way the dumb down strategy worked in 2002 and 2004, but that represents 4 years not 8.

1. Media lowers the bar on journalistic and credibility standards for sensationalism.

2. The public loves it, although they aren't getting informed of anything important. They get used to it.

3. Goto #1

McCain Manager: 'This Election is Not About Issues' (Washington Post)

The rebubbalicans are planning for this campaign to be just like "American Idol," with kindly old Grandpa and his VPILF running mate singing and dancing their way into the electorate's hearts. Sadly, a lot of that electorate is going to buy it, thinking that running for the President and Vice President isn't much different from running for Miss Alaska and first runner-up.

that was hardest hit by the mortgage and jobs crisis. Yet, I am starting to see more and more NObama, McCain/Palin bumper stickers and signs. This is an area that was getting more Democratic voters of late, but I still see a lot of those damn signs and stickers. The sad thing is that when we left to Canada to move back here, I was starting to see a lot of that ignorance in some places up there as well where Harper is concerned. I don't wonder if people can be so stupid, racist, shallow, selfish or vindictive any more because I have seen it too often to even attempt to say it isn't so without lying. They have been trained too well by the media and not educated as well as they should be in schools.

Knowledge and information are some of the only ways to combat it. It has to start at home these days and I am thankful that at least my parents made sure that my sister and I were aware of the world, politics, history, etc. and we are doing so with our son as well.

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are (according to Gallup, at least) three points higher than Obama...I'm REALLY afraid for this country...Goddamn it..That woman is a Creationist!...Freaking A, she might be a rapturite, who knows?

I don't want to live in this Far Right Place with religious nuts in charge...I'm trying, right now, to convince my partner to leave this country if these two get elected

Hillary was right..I don't recognize this country anymore.