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Abandon all hope OR Fight like hell to win?

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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 05:35 AM
Original message
Abandon all hope OR Fight like hell to win?
I'm sickened to see a post advocating the notion that we are already doomed at the top of the recommended posts list.

How about a list of what we can do beat the MSM and the election racketeers and WIN?

What are YOU doing to see that we win? What are YOU doing to ensure that they don't steal the election?

Start here: What You Can Do to Defend Election '08 http://electiondefensealliance.org/what_you_can_do_defend_election_08

What else can YOU do?
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meowomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. I will Fight like Hell
I will not go quietly into that dark night, I will rage, RAGE against the dying of the light!
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 05:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. I admire your attitude.
I wish that I too could believe that we can overcome a cynical campaign, a compliant press, and an overwhelmingly ignorant, star-struck electorate by working harder, sending money, and writing letters to the editor. I wish that I could believe that things are so different from 2000 and 2004 that the exact same thing simply can't happen again. I wish I believed that the debates will make the difference. And I wish saying I was "sickened" by realistic assessments of the race would make those assessments less realistic.

I admire your attitude, really I do. At this moment, though, I just can't share it.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. The problem with that is:
If you give up now, you lose.

If you keep fighting now, we have a chance.

If you fight like hell, we have a much better chance.

Everyone here has to make a choice between hope and despair. Which one do you think is of better use?

"In the end, that's what this election is about. Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or a politics of hope?"
Barack Obama
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I hope you're right.
At the moment, it seems to me like "fighting like hell" to stop the onset of winter. Noble, even worthwhile personally, but ultimately doomed.

Perhaps I am blinded by my utter contempt for the "wisdom" of the American public, which seems to me to comprise 10% thinking people and 90% passive, shallow, ignorant dolts. Or maybe it's my disdain for our corporate media, which shamelessly shills for Palin-McCain. (The slight recent pushback is a welcome exception, but is anyone really listening besides the already convinced?)

No, I haven't given up completely. I sent my biggest contribution yet to Obama during the RNC. I talk him up (and Palin-McCain down) with my friends and acquaintances at every opportunity. I inform myself, I post online, and I have written letters to the editor.

Today was our coldest morning of the season here in Columbus, and I had the furnace on for the first time this morning. Damn. It feels like winter is coming, no matter how hard I may fight it.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Every time you post this kind of message, how many lurkers give up?
Because hell, winter is coming, nothing will help, the election is doomed, why bother to get out of the house on a chilly wet November and go stand in a pointless line? Whoa is me. Defeatist thinking leads to defeat.

It's time for us to grow some spines.

Go watch some Obama and Biden videos. Are you ready to REALLY work for a politics of hope?
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. You're right.
I will keep my opinion to myself from now on. Carry on!
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 05:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Beat them over the head with ISSUES
stop talking about the person
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alsame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
5. Fight like hell! This country was stolen in 2000 and I want it back.n/t
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. We can fight and fight and fight and fight and fight, but . . .
if the notables among us stay in the background and play nice, nothing will change. The people in this party who can get camera time at the drop of a hat need to step up and speak up, NOW. Fucking Democrats. Always so afraid to step on toes or risk hurting feelings. This "lipstick on a pig" thing is the most idiotic thing to come down the pike yet, but if they let it go, every dim bulb in America is going to rally to Palin's side. I'm sick.
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. Look at it this way,
What if the poll numbers had been 38% Obama and 49% McCain all along and now they were 47% Obama and 46% McCain? Would you happy? Of course you would. Well, that's where we are now. We're a point ahead in the national polls (which don't matter anyway- it's the states, but whatev).

Some of these threads remind me of the Woody Allen line, "no matter how cynical you get, you can never keep up." Apparently, some are getting pretty close.

Make a commitment to get two new people you know well to Obama- someone uncommitted, or better yet a McPalindrome. Tell 'em you'll drive them to the voting place. Tell 'em you'll help check their registration. Do what you gotta do to get two.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. Maybe For Some It Will Be A Wake-Up Call
For those who think the election is already rigged...there's little to no hope for you. But for others who are "freaked out" by the numbers, maybe it's time to go out and do something about it. Find the local Democratic party office and work a phone bank or do some canvassing...meet REAL voters and listen to what they have to say, you might get a far different picture and really help make a difference.

Another thing would be to shut off the teevee...stop letting the corporate mediatypes play with your head. They're not concerned with issues, only substance. They want/need a close race...it bring in ratings and revenues and their corporate agendas always will favor the GOOP. That's especially the case with this election where an Obama election will mean a threat to their monopolies of the public airwaves and cables. With the exception of Keith Olbermann and Rachael Maddow, you'll get a better handle on events on the Daily Show, Colbert Report and here on the "internets".

The GOOP is playing a campaign of diversion and want to avoid dealing with issues. They're trying to elect prom king & queen...a popularity contest. For many of us this election means a lot more...let's go out and win it vote by vote, door-to-door...and shove it up all their asses.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Yes, exactly. THIS is the spirit we need!
Some more:

What You Can Do to Defend Election '08
http://electiondefensealliance.org/what_you_can_do_defend_election_08

Sign up for Election Verification Polling (Citizen Exit Polls) in November
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/evp

Sign up with the I-Count Corps to handcount ballots
http://electiondefensealliance.org/count/signup.php

Download, read, and share the Blackboxvoting 2008 Citizens' Toolkit
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/toolkit.html

Explore the links at the EDA Take Action page
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/takeaction

Write a Letter to the Editor (or your Representative)
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/let_people_count

Find and join a local election integrity group near you
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/Regional_EI_Directory

Join an EDA Working Group on a subject of your interest
http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/workinggroups

Subscribe for E-mailed EDA Alerts and Announcements

Donate Financial Support
http://electiondefensealliance.org/Donate

Get involved in any of these EDA projects:
Investigating Election Fraud
The Arizona Transparency Project
Election Integrity Monitoring
Election Forensic Analysis
Universal Ballot Sampling Protocol for Election Verification
Commissioning Polls and Voter Surveys as Checks on Reported Election Results
Conducting Citizens' Election Verification Polls
Training Citizens in Hand-Counted Paper Ballot Elections (HCPB) via The I-Count Corps
Legal Initiatives such as the Save New York Levers Project
Legislative Analysis
Multipartisan Election Reform Advocacy
Election Integrity Broadcasts via California Public News Service
Education and Organizing at Saving America Vote by Vote Screenings
Podcasting on Election Defense Radio
Videocasting on EDA TV
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. Giving up so soon? I don't get it. We have not even had the debates yet.
We need to fight and fight and fight until we have given everything.
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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 06:51 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Apparently, our side has more mood swing types.
When Obama gives a speech at the convention, whoop, when he sleepily stammers on Olbermann, whooaa. Time to fire it up, not panic yet.

Also, in the back of these people's minds, I'm guessing, is John Kerry. Who waited too long, who seemed too distant, and just never fought hard, etc. A good honest veteran lost to a draft dodging chump, and that memory's painful.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Rx for electoral mood swings
Edited on Wed Sep-10-08 07:08 AM by kayell
Time for some Obama/Biden Prozac
Go watch some of their videos. These guys aren't Kerry. They know how to fight. They know about hope.

DU could be seen as a big group therapy session. Is it going to be a positive group, or one that spins off into despair. It's our choice.

And the best cure: Self help groups. Volunteer. Fight. Win.

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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-10-08 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
16. WE MUST WIN!!!
We need to be sure to get the issues out to everyone, get the media away from the lies told in the GOP ads. Keep pushing the media, donate to the campaign, make sure you are registered and make sure we all VOTE!

mark
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