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Does the USA own the Moon?

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VeraAgnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:35 AM
Original message
Does the USA own the Moon?
Since we were the first their, planted our USA Flag....does that give us territory rights? China and Russia are also space savvy so they may soon go to the Moon. Who really knows how important the Moon will be in our near future.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Possession is 9/10s of the law, and I'm POSSESSED!"-- Lucy Ricardo. nt
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. Not according to treaties we signed prior to the landing
These treaties were made, of course, when the outcome of the space race was still in doubt. Still, the basic thrust of them is probably sensible. This is not 1492. The moon belongs to the earth. This will some day be a vital subject.
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VeraAgnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. I didn't know about the treaties....
I agree, the Moon belongs to the Earth but power and profit always make their presence known. History shows us that.......look at the Native American Indian for example.

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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. as I understand it, there was an agreement that the Moon does not "belong" to any one country
(how would you enforce the rights, when the moon shows over the entire earth? airspace?)

similar to the agreement on Antarctica ...
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
4. Not if China gets there and dumps a million Astrosoldiers there first
I don't think we're going to have much money in the coffers to start that whole Moonbase Alpha/Trip to Mars thing.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. let them have it
if the moon was made of gold it wouldn't pay to fly up there and get it.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Ah but if it had oil
Bush would build a bridge of human bodies to get there.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. It's very unlikely that there is oil on the moon (byproduct of carbon based life forms as it is...)
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I know this but the starship America is without a science officer these days
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Listen, unbeliever, Jesus gave us oil when he invented the Earth
3,000 years ago. Spout your shit, elsewhere, buddy.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. How silly of me
Edited on Thu Sep-25-08 10:02 AM by shadowknows69
I wonder if God wonders about who made the pyramids too? Since they were already here when he created earth
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
36. It has something better than oil: Helium-3
http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2006/12/72276
Race to the Moon for Nuclear Fuel

Nestled among the agency's 200-point mission goals is a proposal to mine the moon for fuel used in fusion reactors -- futuristic power plants that have been demonstrated in proof-of-concept but are likely decades away from commercial deployment.

Helium-3 is considered a safe, environmentally friendly fuel candidate for these generators, and while it is scarce on Earth it is plentiful on the moon.

As a result, scientists have begun to consider the practicality of mining lunar Helium-3 as a replacement for fossil fuels.

(...)

The isotope is extremely rare on Earth but abundant on the moon. Some experts estimate there a millions of tons in lunar soil -- and that a single Space-Shuttle load would power the entire United States for a year.

(...)

Mining the moon for helium-3 has been discussed widely in space circles and international space conferences. Both China and Russia have stated their nations' interest in helium-3.

"We will provide the most reliable report on helium-3 to mankind," Ouyang Ziyuan, the chief scientist of China's lunar program, told a Chinese newspaper. "Whoever first conquers the moon will benefit first."

(...)

Russian space geologist Erik Galimov told the Russian Izvestia newspaper that NASA's plan to colonize the moon will "enable the U.S. to establish its control of the global energy market 20 years from now and put the rest of the world on its knees as hydrocarbons run out."

(...)

In a 1998 op-ed for Space News, Schmitt criticized the 1979 United Nations- sanctioned Moon Treaty, which forbids ownership of lunar territory by individuals or separate nations.

"The mandate of an international regime would complicate private commercial efforts," Schmitt wrote. "The Moon Treaty is not needed to further the development and use of lunar resources for the benefit of humankind -- including the extraction of lunar helium-3 for terrestrial fusion power."

(...)

But NASA's "Global Exploration Strategy" (.xls) for the moon now states that among the 200 potential goals for future missions includes the study of lunar helium-3 for "fusion reactors on Earth" to "reduce Earth's reliance on fossil fuels."
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
41. Unfortunately fusion power continues to be 30 years in the future (as it has always been)
I'm into it, but I think there's only a 50% of a chance of fusion power outside of an experimental setting before 2050.
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dbmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'll play!
Edited on Thu Sep-25-08 09:40 AM by dbmk
Although several pennants of the Soviet Union were scattered by Luna 2 in 1959 and by later landing missions, and U.S. flags have been symbolically planted on the Moon, no nation currently claims ownership of any part of the Moon's surface. Russia and the U.S. are party to the Outer Space Treaty, which places the Moon under the same jurisdiction as international waters (res communis). This treaty also restricts the use of the Moon to peaceful purposes, explicitly banning military installations and weapons of mass destruction (including nuclear weapons).<81>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_moon#Legal_status

The internetz! Its a wonderful thing!
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VeraAgnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. Thank You.
The question came to me reading the thread where China sends 3rd man space mission today. O8)

China is moving at warp speed in all science and technology.:scared:
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. I do.
And have I got a lot for you. It's on the lit side, so you'll have a great view of the earth.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 covers this
It's more officially called the "Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space, including the Moon and Other Celestial Bodies".

The short version is "no"; there is not territorial sovereignty claimed or recognized by any signatory to natural objects outside of the Earth's atmosphere. There is a protocol of traffic control and one might casually say this or that country "owns" a certain orbital path since that's where its satellites are. But the signatories to the treaty (which currently include every nation with a reasonable chance of mounting a space exploration program) declare celestial bodies to be the common heritage of humankind.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Treaty? Bwah ha ha ha ha ha
We don't need no stinkin treaties. We don't honor them anyway.
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tuckessee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. Maybe the treaty is a living document.
If the Constitution can be why not this? Rummy would call it "fungible".
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Jeanette in FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. I can see the moon from my house
So yes, we do own it.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. DUzy!
ROFL
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VeraAgnes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. HaHaHaHa
I needed that one.:hi:
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Bwah ha ha!
:spray:

Now you owe me a keyboard.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. Hahahhahahahhaha
so does Palin own Russia? :rofl:
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. Not only that, you live closer to Cape Canaveral than most. Which qualifies you as the head of NASA.
:-)
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
39. You must be an Astronaut!
:wow:
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
20. Yep. Until someone else plants their flag....nt
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Crowman1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
23. It should be owned by the world! And be administered by the UN!
All countries should have and equal share of the mineral rescources on the moon. Have it based on a two tier system of representation, one based on a country's land size and the other based on population.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. Dennis Hope claims he owns it all, apart from what he's sold
From his office in Nevada, entrepreneur Dennis Hope has spawned a multi-million-dollar property business selling plots of lunar real estate at $20 (£10) an acre.

Mr Hope exploited a loophole in the 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty and he has been claiming ownership of the Earth's Moon - and seven planets and their moons - for more than 20 years.
...
Hope says he has so far sold more than 400 million acres (1.6 million sq km), leaving a further eight billion acres still up for grabs.
...
"It's not very scientific but it's kinda fun," he says. It is fun that has already made him $9m (£4.5m).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6533169.stm


I wish I could think of something that truly gullible people would pay me for.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
26. The Soviets have a valid argument as they were the first to land on the moon.
I've no idea if the Soviets plan to use that argument.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. Yes, as well as the English-speaking rings of Saturn.
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. "We came in peace for all mankind."
"Here men from the planet Earth first set foot on the Moon, July 1969 A.D. We came in peace for all mankind."



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tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
30. Heh...Eddy Izzard..."Do you have a flag?"
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Fireweed247 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
31. Why haven't we ever gone back to the moon?
I have always wondered....

I am sure there are natural resources to exploit...
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. We don't have the technology to exploit them
The moon has lots of helium, but we haven't built usable fusion reactors that would be able to make use of it. For the time being, it's just a big rock. The main reason we stopped sending ships there was monetary; between some accidents and the fact that we had a severe financial crisis in the 1970s, it just wasn't worth it. Anything we need or really want to do (eg space telescopes) we can do just as easily in orbit.

Similarly, neither Mars nor Venus offer any discernible short-term profit opportunities. It would be cool to have bases on other planets and all, but economically it doesn't make much sense right now. That will probably change when we have some technology that offers massive benefits to civilization, but which requires some raw material which is in very short supply on the earth but abundant elsewhere. Even then we'd probably use robots to go get it for us; neither of our two neighboring planets are strong candidates for colonization because of the atmosphere and the fact that they don't have a magnetosphere.

Too bad, because I am all for us becoming a spacefaring civilization...but we need to work out some sort of hyperspace technology first.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
32. Corporations have proposed buying the moon and putting advertising on it
Every night when you look up, instead of the man in the moon you would see Coke or Intel or Microsoft.

I'm not kidding; it's been seriously proposed.
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. That would conflict with the...
...1979 United Nations - sanctioned Moon Treaty, which forbids ownership of lunar territory by individuals or separate nations.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
33. Planting a flag makes it a possession.....
Therefore, it belongs to MTV.
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yawnmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
34. yes, the US owns the moon...
and all the twinkly little stars around it.
:silly:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
35. The Man in the Moon owns it
And he's not letting any earthlings have any of it!
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
37. The queston you should be asking is, who owns Uranus?
I contend the corporations do.
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jrockford Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-25-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
42. the U.S. went to the moon? nt
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