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Compare & contrast: the world's second largest bank, Fortis, is being nationalized.

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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:17 PM
Original message
Compare & contrast: the world's second largest bank, Fortis, is being nationalized.
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 05:19 PM by BelgianMadCow
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/29/business/worldbusiness/29euro.html?ref=business

<snip>
In the latest sign of trouble to hit Europe from the global credit crisis, Jean-Claude Trichet, the president of the European Central Bank, took the unprecedented step of joining Prime Minister Yves Leterme of Belgium and Dutch ministers in Brussels on Sunday to discuss an outright seizure or rescue of the Belgian-Dutch financial conglomerate Fortis. The shares have fallen by a third in two weeks and plunged 20 percent on Friday on concern over its ability to raise funds and remain solvent following an ill-timed, costly purchase of ABN Amro with a consortium of other banks. </snip>

This is of course the start - negotiations have ended meanwhile:
For 11.2 Billion Euro, Belgium, Holland and Luxemburg will take full ownership of the company, which will probably sell parts. The government also assured people their savings are 100 % guaranteed (no cap) by the states.
I don't have an english link of this last bit of info, so I didn't post in LBN.

To me, it is shocking news, and I was surprised to see that both Fortis and ING (the world's largest bank it would seem) are in the Fortune 500 top 20.
And, finally, the amount paid by the governments is much lower than the figures in the US for apparently smaller banks.

That tells you something, no?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yep. With all we've put up ($700 billion), makes me wonder of the scope of firms
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 05:22 PM by mmonk
the US is planning to buy.
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think it shows the size of the derivative bubble on top of the housing bubble
We are more regulated over here...
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
2. Here's an English language link
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 05:23 PM by muriel_volestrangler
http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/28/news/international/fortis_nationalized.ap/?postversion=2008092818

That and Bloomberg ( http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHLJkQ0tCDEM&refer=home ) call it 'partial nationalization' - I don't think they get full ownership (it is very big, so that would be a really small price for it).

Post that link in LBN if you want.
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I just checked some other belgian sources - each govt gets a 49% share of their Fortis branch
Still dirt cheap, but good correction!

I'll crosspost in LBN then, thank you.
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. LINK: LBN Thread thanks to muriel_volestrangler
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. We've got about a hundred banks on the brink
And have already lost several massive banks. So maybe that would tell you why we've got a larger amount of money to put forward.
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Good point.
But still...Fortis is larger than Citigroup - just for perspective.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. And the same size as WaMu
and now that they've been bought by JP Morgan they will be the same size as BofA which is $600,000,000 a piece. And that's just two.

http://nyjobsource.com/banks.html
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. But watch out: that ranking is based on deposits, not revenues.
Edited on Sun Sep-28-08 05:59 PM by BelgianMadCow
which is a different story, no? Check the Fortune list of banks:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2008/industries/192/index.html

I'm really astounded our two main banks are this big.

Your question made me check out what % of our federal budget goes to this deal: it's no less than 10 PERCENT!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Which still misses the point
The number of US banks on that list verse the number of Belgium banks.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. The bailout here in the US is "too little, too late".
The crisis is going global and will cause a worldwide hyperinflationary depression.
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