Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Guardian UK: A shattering moment in America's fall from power

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:12 PM
Original message
Guardian UK: A shattering moment in America's fall from power
A shattering moment in America's fall from power
The global financial crisis will see the US falter in the same way the Soviet Union did when the Berlin Wall came down. The era of American dominance is over

John Gray The Observer, Sunday September 28 2008


Our gaze might be on the markets melting down, but the upheaval we are experiencing is more than a financial crisis, however large. Here is a historic geopolitical shift, in which the balance of power in the world is being altered irrevocably. The era of American global leadership, reaching back to the Second World War, is over.

You can see it in the way America's dominion has slipped away in its own backyard, with Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez taunting and ridiculing the superpower with impunity. Yet the setback of America's standing at the global level is even more striking. With the nationalisation of crucial parts of the financial system, the American free-market creed has self-destructed while countries that retained overall control of markets have been vindicated. In a change as far-reaching in its implications as the fall of the Soviet Union, an entire model of government and the economy has collapsed.

Ever since the end of the Cold War, successive American administrations have lectured other countries on the necessity of sound finance. Indonesia, Thailand, Argentina and several African states endured severe cuts in spending and deep recessions as the price of aid from the International Monetary Fund, which enforced the American orthodoxy. China in particular was hectored relentlessly on the weakness of its banking system. But China's success has been based on its consistent contempt for Western advice and it is not Chinese banks that are currently going bust. How symbolic yesterday that Chinese astronauts take a spacewalk while the US Treasury Secretary is on his knees.

Despite incessantly urging other countries to adopt its way of doing business, America has always had one economic policy for itself and another for the rest of the world. Throughout the years in which the US was punishing countries that departed from fiscal prudence, it was borrowing on a colossal scale to finance tax cuts and fund its over-stretched military commitments. Now, with federal finances critically dependent on continuing large inflows of foreign capital, it will be the countries that spurned the American model of capitalism that will shape America's economic future.

Which version of the bail out of American financial institutions cobbled up by Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson and Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke is finally adopted is less important than what the bail out means for America's position in the world. The populist rant about greedy banks that is being loudly ventilated in Congress is a distraction from the true causes of the crisis. The dire condition of America's financial markets is the result of American banks operating in a free-for-all environment that these same American legislators created. It is America's political class that, by embracing the dangerously simplistic ideology of deregulation, has responsibility for the present mess. .......(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/28/usforeignpolicy.useconomicgrowth




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bush ruined the financial viability of America
just like he did the Texas Rangers baseball team. I hope everyone who voted for him is happy with themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. He ruined America...nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. The fate of empires is very often sealed by the interaction of war and debt
The fate of empires is very often sealed by the interaction of war and debt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, shrubby's track record is still perfect. He's bankrupted every company he's worked for.
Traded Sammy Sosa. Couldn't find oil in Texas. What a dumbass.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. the Dufas Shrub has a Father Complex, he finally did somthin better than his dad, robbed more people...
for more money.. Poppy only Looted $500,000,000, the Shrub Looted $700,000,000 and for no extra charge destroyed Social Security, universal insurance, wall street.. and ended the free world as we know it. he also killed 680,000 people in Iraq.. 180,000 more than his Poppy did..

well he was look'n for a Legacy.. he Fuck'n got it and Karma is a real Bitch, i am sure he has managed to piss off the wrong people. i think they will Martyr the Bumbass, he's worth much more as an October Surprise than a further liability. and they will have the benefit of the custom of not speak'n ill of the demised.. not having him around to compare McSame to will be a big plus
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. well-put
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. Which is why he was the perfect Grover Norquist candidate.
I think that time will show that the Bush administration was THE most successful administration in history. They didn't screw anything up. They didn't make any mistakes. They accomplished precisely what they set out to do, on an unprecedented scale, without any meaningful or successful resistance or opposition.

9/11, Katrina and all of their other supposed fuckups were not mistakes due to incompetence. They were successful illustrations of the party's philosophy toward the role of government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Mr. Chimp, tear down this Wall(Street)!"
"Mr. Chimp, tear down this Wall(Street)!"™
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
givemebackmycountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thank You, Republicans....
It only took you 30 years, to do what our enemies have been trying to do to us for over a century.
Destroy us.

Nixon
Reagan
Bush
Bush

Thanks a lot.

You and your free market, anti-regulation, anti-freedom, pro-religion, Democratic hating asses, have ruined it for us all.

I hope you all die, and go to hell you bastards.
And, I sincerely hope hell is in your beloved Ronald Reagan's deeply buried, rotted, worm filled sphincter, you S.O.B's.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Perhaps it's time to start all over. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Me, I think it would be a relief to not be the lone superpower anymore.
As long as we can defend ourselves and ensure prosperity for our own citizens, why do we need to also be the top dog? T'hell with that. It's more trouble than it's worth.

(But of course the neocons in charge right now don't think so and they won't give up without a fight.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. well that depends on who is do'n the start'n.. i'm sell'n everything i cant carry
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Damn are there people out there buying stuff?
I want rid of all of mine too. A couple of changes of clothes and I'm good. But I can't do that because I have a son to think about. He needed to be edumucated!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. some of us have noted this for awhile
after reading Emmanual Todd in 2003.

http://www.buzzflash.com/hartmann/05/04/har05004.html

The main thesis of Todd's book is that America is posturing, playing the role of the leader of the "free world" and head of the new American Empire, when, in fact, we are militarily, economically, and morally bankrupt -- and the rest of the world knows it. In fact, he suggests, much of the posturing is for the consumption of the domestic American audience, as the rest of the world (with the exception of a few dependent Third World nations) knows we're already in decline and perhaps even ready to implode.

The result (of years of Reaganomics) is that the US "has become the center of a system in which its number one job is to consume rather than produce."

...Todd suggests the world won't -- or can't -- long continue to support our "parasitic" lifestyle by loaning us money to sell us goods, while we export our manufacturing industries and hollow out our internal productivity. "The most likely scenario" he sees as a result of this "is a stock market crash larger than any we have experienced thus far that will be followed by a meltdown of the dollar -- a one-two punch that will put an end to any further delusions of 'empire' when it comes to the US economy."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. The harsh first rays of a cold new dawn
The problem is, even if we started from scratch, the "Maverick American" mindset is too deeply ingrained. Alas, we'd ultimately end up here again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
12. Shame me once with an unjust war. Shame me twice by physically and morally
bankrupting my country. May there never be another Republican who unpacks his bags in the White House, ever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. I was really struck by one of the comments on that page:
sleat
Sep 28 08, 2:01am

Its not as simple as that. Firstly, there is no way America can ever repay its debts, and if the holders of Treasury Bonds were to try to recall their loans, the bond market would collapse and their holdings would be worthless. So, because those debts cannot be repaid, they in a real sense, do not exist. However because China and the other big creditors know this, they are much more likely now to purchase American assets rather than fund a government that has very little control over its own financial future.

But, China and all of the emerging economies are dependent on the US consumer market. Not only is it huge, but it is utterly undiscriminating. Americans will buy anything, even things that have no purpose. China regards a large part of its Treasury Bill holdings as the unrecoverable cost of keeping the American consumer market intact.

Now, the emerging economies cannot afford a sudden collapse in that market. They have to allow totally bankrupt consumers to continue to get access to credit so that they can buy in the frenzied and crazed fashion that exists nowhere outside America. Exactly how this will be achieved is not entirely clear, but China and the others will have to accommodate American credit while they diversify their markets. This diversification is already under way, of course. While the US couldnt see what was coming, China could and did. One way or another, it will spur an uncontrollable wave of inflation which will take many Americans out. Neither the US Government nor the Chinese will care about that. The greedy go to the wall, and the stupid and the greedy go even quicker.

The poor in America and elsewhere will be the true victims, and it will be ugly. The crooks who spurred this financial melt-down will take billions in personal wealth with them to their tax havens. (my bold) US corporations have long since stopped being American. They will happily transfer from New York to Dubai or Mumbai, or Shanghai. The exodus is already under way. And because American insfrastructure is now among the weakest in the OECD, foreign investors will cease operating plants in the US as soon as it is clear that the US market is drying up.

So, it will be a slow change, because the merging world cannot afford and will not permit a rapid one. America's main problem is that although it is defeated all the time, it refuses to accept that reality. In the American psyche, winning, at any expense, even the brains of children splattered against the wall, is all that matters. Meantime, Americans will continue strutting and threatening to kick butt, waving their pathetic little flags. So sad!


sw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
14. Black Mass: Apocalyptic Religion and the Death of Utopia
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. Still... we're gonna spend
almost $700 Billion this YEAR on the military. Counting black ops and off-budget items and black-bag jobs, we do at least an equal amount to the bail-out every fucking year into military spending.

At some point, somebody is gonna have to say that we just can't afford this shit any more.

Read "Re-inventing Collapse" by Dimitri Orloff.... chilling. He compares how the Soviets collapsed with what has happened and is happening to the US.

Another problem.... lots of people hate us and will dance in the streets as we circle the porcelain bowl.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poseidan Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-08 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. the strangest thing is...
These free-market notions are not really 'American'. They come from the Republican party. Read the Constitution, it clearly states there is no extreme free-market mentality, but instead, something completely open to regulated commerce. If we eliminate the Republican party, restore true Americanism, we will be fine.

Political physics 101: Structures must be built from the bottom-up (unlike the Republican top-down, or trickle-down economics causing the current failures). It is simple physics... the weight on the top constantly pushes down on whatever is below it. If the bottom cannot sustain the weight, collapse. Think of humans carrying a train.

Unlike the Soviet Union, which was built from the top-down, the United States was built properly (bottom-up), and will itself not collapse. The 'American' economic model, which is largely un-American, and only touted by descendants of Confederate ideology, is what we find currently collapsing. It is a second victory, against the Confederacy (or more accurately, a second loss, as they brought this on themselves). The original civil war was damaging, as is this, but we can finish them permanently, replace what was lost, and have the true nation our Founders and ourselves have fought for.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Thank you for that tiny note of optimism.
:hi:

Hekate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
20. And godforbid anyone should have to pay taxes.
Makes me sick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
21. thanks a lot republicon motherfuckers. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PinkyisBlue Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-08 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
24. Bush has the anti-Midas touch. Everything he touches turns to rust.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat May 04th 2024, 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC