Idiot at work today: "People who come to this country ought to learn English."

A woman came in today and couldn't speak english. In the past when non-english speaking customers have come in, I have tried to translate using the web but I couldn't help her. After she left, the moran who helped her came into my office and made that snide remark.

I didn't respond but the bigotry of people like this makes me mad. There is no telling how long the woman has been here, whether she is here to stay, or what circumstances she left behind to be here and to assume that she has to know english to transact business is ignorant.

I didn't expect them to accommodate English.

In the meantime, people like the guy at work leap to conclusions about her. Read: she's an illegal alien.

Unless the guy has only English ancestors chances are pretty good that one or more of his kin didn't speak English when they were new arrivals. In fact, some may never have learned to read English even if they managed to learn conversational English. The jerk should spend a day perusing census records from the early 20th century.

Personally, I want legal aliens to learn English, too.

But I have sympathy for the older, post-pubescent immigrants whose adult brains are much more resistant to new language. Their accents will likely always be thick and their descendants will believe, as I did, that grandparents all came with an accent and I'd probably have one by that age, too.

I'd definitely have an accent by now!

You could always go back to Russia if you don't like all the languages spoken here.

It's because we are diverse that one common language helps hold us together.

If so, very cool. Of course, we don't know the circumstances of this person's arrival in the US. Nor do we know the nature of the business she was tending to. Perhaps she is a political refugee. Perhaps she knows some English, but not enough to navigate in an unusual business situation.

True, she should know English, but perhaps simple survival is higher on her list of priorities for the next few years.

Or did you just pick up Russian instantaneously?

You can't be series!!That's unpossible!:rofl:

:sarcasm:

I hate it when people say "Those immigrants should learn American!"

are obligated to learn and speak the language of the people who already live there, ask this morAn why we aren't all speaking Algonquin or Dakota or Ojibway?

That's a new moran display!!!

For when they get shipped back to their home country, it'll make their jobs much easier to accomplish. No thick accents for people to get mad at, don'cha'know...

Expect major politicians to "help" H1Bs by giving them free ESL classes... and who cares if they're legal or not? (and don't ask what immigration policies are in other countries; they're not as "liberal" as President Bush wants to make the United States as... you bet there's something odd about it, but whatever.)

Case in point: Politicians will NEVER keep a consistency. Not when there are votes to be had. This isn't cynicism. This is marketing.


Okay, most of this is cynical. I should be doing what my coworker friends tell me to do - ignore politics and live. And before you ask, they're big-time Liberals too.

like to a country where they didn't speak English? Bet you he assumed everyone there would speak English!

I've helped out German tourists in this country who were lost. They were grateful for the help and I hope they went back with a tale of at least one NICE American.

I've only been to Ontario, myself. But I am very glad I can sprechen die Deutsch.

I'm aboot the hoose.

that you would just offend the natives. So I am in the Strasbourg train station trying to buy a ticket to Burbach. Ticket lady has never heard of Burbach. Apparently cannot punch it into her computer and get a ticket anyway. What about Siegen, a city of 100,000 or so, less than 150 miles away? Nope, never heard of it. She doesn't speak English or German either, although the train station is not that far from the German border. Nobody else can or will help although there are two other workers kinda watching.
So, no I do not speak French except for 'Je t'aime' and a few other phrases, but why should I have to? There is no French word for Siegen or Burbach. If you need it spelled, then hand me a pencil and paper. If you need to know one way or two, simply hold up one or two fingers. If this happened in America we would complain about poor service, incompetent workers and geographical ignorance. So I ended up buying a ticket to Heidelberg. That, at least, she had heard of, but I wish I had walked back into Deutschland and bought my ticket there.

Or maybe it is in my own twisted mind.

Nonetheless, great one-liner. :rofl::thumbsup:

if I moved to France, I would be a fool not to learn French. Not only that, it would be very arrogant to expect them to cater to me.

We are an English speaking country. If a person wants to come here and be an American, is it really asking too much to try and learn our language? I don't think it's bigotry at all.

You seem to be confusing "America" with the USA. Common mistake.

I've heard North America, South America, and The Americas, but never just America.

"America" = "USA" is a common and widely-understood usage, and snarking about how it's rude to our neighbors is just trumped-up indignation, IMO...

The USA is the USA, and not AMERICA.

And Spanish was the first foreign language spoken on this continent and French was the second. The first pilgrims spoke not only English but other European languages. My ancestors that arrived a short time after the Mayflower did, were from Holland, so I imagine they spoke Dutch. English became the primary language because it is the language of the dominator's. And our form of english has many words that are not "English" but originated in other languages.

neighbors they were heading off to America, everybody knew what they meant. The formal name of our nation is the USA, but using "America" as short-hand has been done since the nation was founded, everyone knows what it means, and taking offense at it is just going out and looking for a reason to be offended...

named Amerigo Vespucci

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/content/features/2002/04/29/amerike.shtml

It's also pointed out that only royalty got their first names used when a discovery was named after them then (after all, royals are never known by their surnames). Everyone else's surnames were used. So how come we got so chummy with Amerigo that his first name was used?

;)

before it was New York. Remember it was New Amsterdam.

call the US "the states". I normally use that when talking to Canadian and Australian friends. In Cantonese we are "golden mountain", I suspect because it's an uphill hike to get the gold here.

Bill

actually only refers to San Francisco. At least in Mandarin it does.

I'll look into it. But my source speaks Cantonese, as I said.

Bill

between Mandarin and Cantonese. :)

rsr1771 did use 'American' - but that is the accepted noun for a citizen of the USA. Apart from that, they talked about their 'country'.

yeah, just like he learned himself english

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

To teach (a person) to do or how to do something. (Also in pass.)

c. 1340: Set him faste to gode teching Til he be lerned him self to lede
1480 (Caxton): Gentilmens children ben lerned and taught from their yongth to speke frenssh.
1666 (Bunyan): That my Father might learn me to speak without this wicked way of swearing.
1792 (Wollstonecraft): We should learn them, above all things, to lay a due restraint on themselves.
1844 (Disraeli): Learn to know the House; learn the House to know you.

"Them people" is grammatically incorrect, but it's also a relatively common usage.

Then remind him that he ought to learn English.

I love it.

Like "think different" should be "Think differentLY".

Nobody knows what an adverb is anymore. I don't know where all those extra LYs are hiding.
And subject-verb agreement is rare.

Nobody knows about past perfect tenses. They just put -ed on the end of a verb and don't know about tenses.

Some people think that all words with an S on the end need an apostrophe.

Possessives and plural possessives really confuse them. As in "ladie's room"??? WTF???

"Most unique", "very unique" grate on my nerves. "Unique" is like "perfect". It cannot be modified.

People who use "hoards of people" when it should be "hordes of people". "Hoard" is a verb.

People who say "hoovering" when they mean "hovering". "Hoovering" is a term in Britain that means vacuuming, taken from the name of the vacuum.

AGGGHH!!
And I'm not even an English major.

using "more" or "most."

For example, "wonderfullest."

and the ancestors of the Hispanos here got here before the Mayflower set sail. They're understandably proud of their heritage and make sure their kids speak Spanish growing up.

I stupidly took 6 years of French instead of Spanish, but there enough analogues that I have little trouble understanding it. I have no issue with people who prefer it. Shoot, I have no issue with elderly folks from the various tribes who have forgotten the English they learned in school and only speak their own languages. You can't get more American than that!

The moran is a poor excuse for a human being who needs a reality check, and soon.

be allowed to drive their trucks to on our highway in route to Canada, because it was a safety hazard that they don't speak English and wouldn't be able to communicate with police in the event of an emergency.

He had some other issues of truck maintenance, government corruption in Mexico, but he kept coming back to the issue that if the drivers can't speak English, they shouldn't be allowed on our highways.

:shrug:

shouldn't be driving anywhere outside of the US!

Of course I can't really understand anyone from Boston, so they shouldn't be driving around here!!1!!

:hide:

My husband has a cross between a Bostonian and Baltimore accent (he grew up in those two cities). Wonder if you could understand half of what he's saying since you live in Maryland?

:hi:

Oh - and he lives in Tennessee with me, now. I THINK my friends all understand him - not sure. :)

so they could communicate with the Mexican truckers. Wow! Replace thousands of US truckers with low-wage Mexican truckers, and then force thousands of other truckers and the police to learn Spanish. Talk about :shrug:

If you double check, I believe you will see that I did not post that. Most in this thread will not know that, so it makes a very effective statement now. :shrug:

As I said before, I realize that keeping Mexican truck drivers out of our job market is your overriding goal and that the "English only" thing is just an argument to achieve that.

do as the Romans do. Your collleague was rude and insensitive, though.

Saying that does not a bigot make.

Could you have helped her if she spoke english?

But that we should also try to help them do so AND try when we can to understand them until they gain some degree of mastery.

The empathetic outpouring underwhelms me.

"Learn the fucking language faster!!"

Christ...how easy do people think it is to learn a language...especially English, which is a bitch for ENGLISH speaking people to learn properly.

I would have reminded my coworker that it isn't easy to learn a language, and it takes immersion for a lot of people. And then I would have given him Five Across The Eye for being such a fucking asshole.

can not speak Spanish. It is a whole new reality.

Without a basic education in the English language they cannot knowledgeably participate in our political process, which is, imho, an absolute duty of every American citizen.

Of course it takes time to learn the language, but folks should at the very least try to learn the language as best as they can.

..and I'm trying desperately to learn Greek. But learning a new language doesn't happen overnight. I'm in Athens, so I can usually find someone who speaks english nearby if I'm in trouble, but not always. And I certianly don't expect them to speak english to me.

I sympathize with the woman you are talking about. I know enough Greek to deal with the grocery store, dry cleaners etc. But if for some reason the conversation varies or I have to go and do something that isn't the norm chances are, I'm lost.

But I know I'm not learning Greek fast enough for my mother-in-laws liking. :eyes:

people who spoke English, and that was in 1972. I still remember getting into a heated argument about American politics with a cab driver. I don't think Greek people like us all that much, but then who does?

Most are able to seperate the person from the politics... ...some can't and they aren't afraid to let you know.

As far as speaking english here, that's part of the reason it's a little tricky learning greek. I would say most want to speak english once they realize greek isn't my language. They like to practice and/or show off their english where I desperately need to practice my greek! I had one had a guy start pinching my cheeks and start saying how great America is and everyone in Greece should speak english! But I've also asked a question in english in a store ..and she just turned and walked away from me. I'm guessing (hoping) she just panicked and didn't know what to do.

The thing is, that at least where I am, most of the mainly Mexican immigrants try. Speaking English is the ticket to a better job, period.

It does take time, however, but it's heartening to see people who spoke no English when I first met them become quite competent in the language in a fairly short time.

You're not doing anyone any favors by inferring that you don't care whether they learn English or not.

It isn't easy for me or them, but the people here in Mexico very much appreciate my lousy Spanish. They are truly kind about helping me understand and be understood. They respect that I'm trying even when I amuse the hell out of them. So I think that's what it takes. Nobody expects a foreigner to know another language necessarily, but to try to communicate as well as possible in the language of the country is in itself respectful, as well as practical.

I remember a few years ago I was crossing the plaza in a small town and a man sort of went a bit out of his way to pass near me. He had a huge smile on his face and shouted, "Happy Thanksgiving!" It wasn't even November, but he was filled with pride that he could say that to me. It's no small thing for humans from different cultures to communicate.

Please, thank you, hello. I'm sorry I don't speak _____. That and a smile helped get me through Greece, Mexico, Germany and several other countries.

It's a matter of respect.

New rule from 2005, I think. 630 hours compulsory: 300 hrs. basic language course, 300 hrs. grammar and sentence formulation, and 30 hours of German history.

What is wrong with this? When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

People who emigrate and then don't take time to learn the language win no sympathy from me.

When I lived in Holland from 1999-2004, the North Africans (Moroccans mainly) were able to take government-sanctioned Dutch lessons free of charge. I, as an American, had to PAY for my Dutch lessons...and it cost a pretty penny.

So that is 25 or 16 euros a week, depending on whether you take the morning or evening course. And I believe it is according to your income levels, which is the way it should be. If someone can't afford to pay for the course (and I do believe it is government subsidized) and the German govt. wants all newcomers to speak the language, then I think a little help is in order.

But I can't see the US doing something like this? Although there are tutoring programs at the libraries, etc.

... meme I cannot get behind. Immigrants who are planning on living here SHOULD learn English. There is really no opposing point of view that is worth debating.

I suppose you think that when I call my bank, I should be greeted with an announcement that says 'press 1 for Spanish, press 2 for French, press 3 for German, press 4 for Portuguese, press 5 for Tagalog, press 6 for Urdu etc etc etc.

No, I shouldn't.

But even this Liberal realizes that businesses need to make money. Your bank is a business. Why should it alienate people who are more comfortable in other languages than English?

Those "other" customers probably speak some English but prefer to discuss complex financial & business matters in another language. They are so busy running their own businesses that they haven't had time to become perfectly fluent in our rather odd language.

Don't worry. Their children will speak perfect English. Many of them will make excellent grades in school & earn scholarships. Although many won't need them--since their parents will have become quite prosperous.

When I lived in Miami, I found that many of the older Hispanics who migrated from Cuba scores of years ago refused to learn or speak English. In fact, why should they? They are living in an area where Spanish is the predominant language.

But they're dying off. Castro has outlived so many of them.

I'm quite sure their kids & grandkids speak English.

that takes some time. Your colleague was jumping to conclusions without evidence - the woman might have just arrived in the country last week. She might have been a short-term visitor; etc.

English-speakers are pretty notorious for not learning the language of countries that they visit or even live in! I do wonder whether your colleague has bothered to learn any other language.

She spoke no English when she got here, and didn't speak more than a few words of English when she passed away in the mid 1970s.

So, she essentially learned no English in her 75 years in this country.

I doubt she was alone.

So, whenever I hear people complaining that these newcomers don't speak English, I think of her.

Yesterday at work while I was going to the cafeteria I met a hispanic woman (who spoke broken English)in the lobby with a vacuum cleaner. I went through the door out to the hallway and held it for her and asked her if she wanted to go through. After she went through the door, she asked me what I said. She proceeded to tell me she was taking a class to learn English and I guess the phrasing I used "do you want to go through" when I saw her was kind of strange and new to her and I don't think she totally understood what I meant by it. But she wanted to know what I meant by that phrasing so she could learn.

I lived in Holland for 5 years; in Germany for 3.

I worked my fool butt off learning both Dutch and German. That, with an infant and a baby in tow. And a 40-year old brain, doing its best to ALSO assimilate cultural nuances and new employment challenges.

Was I fluent? Of course not. Was I vaguely conversational, even within the first couple of weeks? Yes, I was.

Did I become incensed at City Hall, or at the Post Office, or at the power company, when the representative spoke ONLY the native language, and not English? No, I did not. I CHOSE to live in these countries, and felt it incumbent upon myself to learn the LANGUAGE and the CULTURE as part of my residency duties.

I have nothing but compassion for those immigrants who come to our country and make an effort to communicate with me. I don't care if they only know 20 words, and come across as newbies in the USA. I have taken it upon myself to learn rudimentary Spanish. But I have NO COMPASSION for those who come to America, live here year after year, refuse to even try to learn English, and segregate themselves from OUR culture intentionally. It's small-minded, xenophobic, and detrimental to ALL of us.

fun of someone who is a newcomer and trying to learn a new language. I think the OP was right that the guy was an idiot if he was mocking someone who was a legal immigrant to the US.

And I too, am having my challenges with Deutsche grammatik, my brain synapses don't fire as quickly as they did at age 16 when I took two years of the language. LOL. but at least I am making an attempt to integrate. That's all anyone can ask for... :hi:

known one who didn't want to learn English.

He went back to Monterrey, Mexico, by the way.

As you said, he doesn't know that the lady is an immigrant. Quite a few monied people come to Houston for checkups at our fine Medical Center and/or to shop at the Galleria. (Yes, that's a common combined visit!) Many speak English. Those who do not still have considerable money to spend. Residents of our multicultural city will gladly assist them.

Or the lady may be a recent immigrant who hasn't had time to become fluent in English. Some business conversations require more complex vocabulary than one needs to order lunch. At least she knows you tried to help.

My own ancestors didn't come from England, but had benefited (!) from centuries of exposure to English culture. However, our country has a long history of immigrants who had to learn English. The oldest ones sometimes never did; they stayed at home, cooking & caring for the grandchildren. Their children worked hard to support the family & learned the language--although they may have missed the finer points. The grandkids learned English in school.

Most of the recent bigotry is occasioned my so much Spanish turning up in places where the language is "new." (It's different in Texas; Spanish was here before English & won't go away.) Perhaps they need to watch Sí TV. Why did my cable system add a new Hispanic/Latino station to the lineup? We already have the 4 broadcast & 2 cable channels--using Spanish--in the regular lineup. (Of course, customers can subscribe to more Spanish programming.) Well, Sí TV is going after the Youth Demographic. So all the programming is in English!

www.sitv.com/

That was the predominant language used by the Powhatan Indians

In fact some people learn a lot of it without ever coming to the U.S.

Other countries have two or more languages and don't fall apart.

This goes under the heading of "anal-retentive view of the world" where very nation must have exactly one language, and exactly one job for each person born there at all times, regardless of qualifications. All persons have a "permanent records" and are always in the place they are expected to be at all times.

It is amazing that such persons, viewing the world as they do as if it remains a macro of an elementary school classroom, where everyone has their same seat and sit in it every day and progress year to year along a precisely pre-planned and predicted path, even are upset about this, when in their view, it is likely that computer programs translate accurately and completely 100%, as surely, a language can be translated word for word.