Can the mess we find ourselves in today be placed at the feet of us 'baby boomers.'

After all it is some of us who are at the head of the pack leading this country down a wrong path, so can it be said that the 'baby boomers' are at the epicenter of all the things we recognize as wrong today?

And perhaps all those who voted for Bush-Cheney in the last two presidential elections. More than the baby boomers are at fault because Bush's support in both elections came from more than just the boomer generation. Young voters and middle-aged voters also voted for Bush as well as the elderly. I almost voted for Bush in 2000 but ultimately didn't cast a ballot, but I admit I was leaning towards Nader in that election even though I ultimately cast no ballot. I was 18 and rather ignorant compared to now.

Then again, I find playing the blame game in this arena tends to cause more trouble than it's worth. It's generally not a productive area of discussion, IMHO.

There are dicks in every generation, and I can tell some of the people in my generation (I'm 25 now) are fucked up already. There's no telling how fucked up future leaders from my generation will be.

by pardoning Nixon, he allowed Rove et al to go on unscrutinized and to eventually create the monster unitary executive which was Tricky's goal.

of not stopping him and the Kagan family from their assault on America.

I was a pawn in the great green machine, opting to volunteer for 4 years in the Army to avoid being turned into an infantryman I could have avoided contributing to the development of the NSA's spying capacity. If only I had volunteered to carry a weapon. Oh, what a mistake...

And ya know, post Vietnam, I destroyed my opportunity for the fame and "big bucks" and a chance to find a cure to all diseases in order to pursue values I found as a kid on the 1st Earth Day teach-ins.

I shoulda been a friggin gel jockey molecular biologist instead of an ecologist teaching conservation and environmental science to about three thousand kids at this point.

I'm guilty as hell, I followed Racheal Carson's lead, I shoulda been learning how to counter Donald Segreti.

Every generation is full of piss and vinegar when young, and tries to change the world for the better. Unfortunately the world in the shape of big money and interests fights back, as age inevitably creeps up and suddenly work and family get more important.
At least I can say I never became a Republican!

"... as age inevitably creeps up and suddenly work and family get more important....." is not the end of the story. Those working and building families WHILE remembering the lessons of the previous decades and reading the writing on the wall, would not take their hands off the wheel and let the nation be driven into a ditch INEVITABLY as it has been.

"Unfortunately the world in the shape of big money and interests fights back..." Yes, they were "figthing back" on the national level in alarming ways that led directly to all the SHIT we are dealing with now.

Those (not necessarily yourself) who BOUGHT the Reagan Happy Face slapped on vile and mercenary policies may not have become "Republicans" but they are aka "Republican Lite."



http://www.thomhartmann.com

Wasn't it us 'boomers' on the protest lines close to 40 years ago trying to stop what we knew was an unjust war? Weren't we the ones starting to push for recycling centers and learning to live off the grid without using more resources than we could renew? Weren't we the ones making statements about the polluters and the military-industial complexes and big business? Weren't we the ones trying to break the barriers of bigotry and discrimination?

Aren't we the ones doing those same things still?

There's a peace march this weekend as a matter of fact. My sign is ready and I'll be taking public transportation to attend, thank you.

LTH, 51 and counting.

cooling off a bit.

The people who have led the country "down the wrong path" have been around for centuries. They are greedy and indifferent. They have the ability to demonise one class or group of people because of skin color, spiritual beliefs, sexuality or age. They seem to always be with us, but somehow today, they have been given the reins of power.

I am writing this after having a discussion about proposed reductions/elimination of social security benefits and medical care for retirees this past weekend with friends. Recently I heard about the issues of homeless people gathering in St. Petersburg Florida. If people in the state think that is an issue now, wait 20 years and see how many baby boomers are there because they have no means of support. Not everyone has half a million $$$'s in a 401k waiting for them when they retire.

I was also in Austin Texas about a year ago. I saw many homeless people. What went through my mind is that "this is what he left behind here, and this is where the country is going".

Both Florida and Texas are recovering from Bush governors. I do not see that as a coincidence.

1) you can't blame the problems on a generation. First of all, the American jingoism and 'might makes right' attitude which is the root of some of our problems far predate the boomers. As is the disdain for world opinion and the frontier attitude which are also contributory factors
2) second you can't blame a generation for the worst representatives of that generation.
3) you have to lay part of the blame for Bush's character flaws at the feet of his parents (as well as his wife)
4) the 100,000,000 people that didn't bother to vote in 2000 and 2004 election are part of the problem. Many of those people are clearly not boomers since the post-boomer participation rate in the voting is well below that of the boomers.

and I didn't perceive that as a reaction to my question. Maybe its because I am one that I see parellels that maybe aren't really there. :shrug:
Again, my Apologie

half a million dollars in a 401K ain't going to do it! Read just the other day that the recommendation for a couple at age 55 is to have $230,000 in the bank JUST for health insurance. Then you have to have another $500,000 to live on! Bet all those folks living on $50,000 or less are going to have a hard time coming up with the dough!

How nice for you.

:mad:

--- Maybe not the "epicenter,"........ but we took our eye off the ball after we got out of Vietnam, that's for sure. But far worse than our "leadership" ... boomers have been pretty disasterous at parenting.

Would you mind expounding upon that?

I don't agree with that assessment at all. You're painting with a pretty broad brush there, aren't you? :shrug:

'cause only baby boomers voted for Georgie. :eyes:

This time the people who make the mess were lucky they found someone who would get out front so we all could see what we had been staying away from for years. It is one of these ages to keep what happened in mind so it will be another 100 years before it all comes together once more. Besides that my children are with you on age and guess where they got their thinking? Means I would have to take blame and we Am. do not do that.

This is just a small cabal that started this war and even if there was a majority support for it when it started there was also a concerted propaganda effort to get the public to go along with it. I place the blame squarely on the political party that started the war, their media enablers and the hypocritical religious fanatics that have a scorched earth mentality when it comes getting their way. The blame spans as many generations as make up these groups.

Well before most of us were even born -- warmongers were here on earth, conjuring up wars.

________________________________________

© 2003 Freely distribute
Contents Updated: Thursday, 10 April 2003

Apologists Of War

http://askwhy-science.co.uk/liesorpropaganda/06Warfare.html">Link

According to a study by the Swiss scholar Jean Jacques Babel, the past 5,500 years have witnessed 15,000 wars, which took a toll of more than 3,500 million lives. What are the causes of these social disasters that have brought humanity so much grief and suffering?

Members of the US scientific world came out against the war hysteria and the all pervasive militarization of social life. US scientists Richard J Barnet (The Economy of Death) and Ralph E Lapp (Arms Beyond Doubt. The Tyranny of Weapons Technology) published their protests and evidence against militarism. Both authors showed the disastrous influence of the military-industrial complex on the economy and policy of the United States and the corrupting effect of the militarization of American society as a whole. Barnet wrote:

Since 1946, tax payers have been asked to contribute more than a trillion dollars for national securiiy. Each year the Federal government spends more than 70 cents of every budget dollar on past, present and future wars.

I've said to my parents numerous times over the past 3 years words to the effect that "They let this happen twice." I was too young to remember or do anything about the Vietnam travesty. They are not rah rah USA republican cheerleaders by any stretch. They are moderate to liberal democrats who always vote (almost always for democrats) but are not political junkies. They didn't support Vietnam but they didn't protest. They didn't support the Iraq war but they haven't done a damn thing to protest it either because they don't want to be seen as "not supporting the troops." They and so many of their friends and family of the same age have done the same thing and are in the same position. I blame them and their apathy and their inability to learn from the mistakes they already lived through once almost as much if not more than the people who actually believe in this war and support it and think it's right.

the state's premiere university and of the 250 to 300 people who were there, the vast majority were over 40 years old. I doubt if there were more than 30 people in their teens or twenties.

..but my parents specifically and many people of their generation that I know.

It's pointed out many, many times on here but DU is not indicative of most of American. That's not to say that most americans are right wing warmongers, but they're also not overly active or political. There are definitely apathetic and tuned out people in the younger generations. And I don't give them a complete pass. But we also didn't see first hand thousands of our friends, peers, and brothers being sent to a meatgrinder in Vietnam. We didn't see first hand what a lying corrupt government can do. History books don't do it justice. The people who were there should have seen this coming a mile away. And many of them did. But many of them did not and many of them are not only old enough to remember what happened but old enough to be in power and have some sway.

more social justice and a distaste for wars for profit is now negating all that we brought to the table (along with a younger generation that has grown up with the likes of Limbaugh on the radio).

the hate spewing has to be seen as it really is, a tool to be used by the ones who want total control. to me that is the greatest threat to our way of life, 'cause through it the ignorant can be motivated

The people who saw this huge generation and their wallets in front of them, and took account of nothing else.

Scooter Libby. Colon Cancer. Agent Orange. The Deficit. The weak dollar. Brangelina. IED's. Walter Reed. Athlete's Foot. Depleted Fisheries. Deplete Uranium. Divine Strake.

Its ALL CLINTON'S FAULT.

Ralph Reed. Rush's Oxycotin Addiction. Princess Di. The hole in the ozone layer. Depleted Rainforests. Brittany's Shaved Head. Bill Buckner. The Yugo.

Its ALL CLINTON'S FAULT.

Windows ME. Watergate. Slavery. Gettysburg. Jimmy Hoffa. The Korean War. Hitler. Mussolini. Stalin. Pol Pot. Idi Amin. Kim Jong Il. Los Alamos.

Its ALL CLINTON'S FAULT.

Clubbing baby seals. Lou Gherig's Disease. The Downing Street Memo's. Flight 93. Wheel of Fortune. The Great Depression. Pearl Harbor. The San Francisco Earth Quake. Pete Rose. Barry Bonds.

Its ALL CLINTON'S FAULT.

:evilgrin:

I don't think so.

The WWII generation was just lucky to win a "good" war, elect FDR, Truman (reelect), Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson (reelect), though you can blame them for Nixon, enacted civil rights legislation (with boomers pushing), and set a solid economic foundation for the growth of a middle class.

We boomers were lucky to stop a "bad" war (and hopefully soon another), but unlucky in electing Reagan, the Bushes and, some would add, Clinton (all foisted on us by an evil conspiracy that didn't exist for the WWII folks), in living through the growth of a culture of greed and corruption, rather than sacrifice, with ostentatious displays of MacMansions and multiple large vehicles, often founded on large amounts of debt.

None of us boomers, particularly here at DU, are individually responsible for any of the people elected in the last 30 years or any of the other problems our country has endured during that period of time. Likewise, no individual of the WWII generation is necessarily to be credited with the accomplishments of that generation.

One can, of course, make the case that the ills that our society has suffered in the past two or three decades are not our responsibility (perhaps another trademark of our generation - "It's somebody else's fault" [Did they use that line during our parents' generation?).

Bush and his cronies come from ours. On the whole, the 'boomers' are probably the first generation to be socially conscience: we fought for civil rights, women's rights, and against the Establishment. I had many a heated argument with my fellow IBMers were went from being very liberal to conservatives when they started making above-average salaries. They then began to plan the games of 'it's all mine' and how can I avoid paying any taxes this year.

Many of us, did not 'sell out' and are still leading the opposition to this 'war' and trying to get the control of our government and lives out of the hands of the corporations.

and didn't fight the rise of Reaganism (continuous through the Clinton administration to this day)


A few on this thread are saying it, in different ways.


http://www.thomhartmann.com

There's plenty of blame to go around, starting with those who have actively caused this mess. People that have been around longer get more blame than younger generations simply because they've had more time to deal with these assholes.

"People that have been around longer get more blame than younger generations simply because they've had more time to deal with these assholes."

A lot of Boomers went to sleep and woke up recently.

A lot of them also are returning and end up outnumbering youth at many events.

The sad fact is that 20-30 year nap some of them had really fucked things up.

:hi:

But, then, none of my immediate family have died from their negligence. Yet.

:hi:

Jaysus this thread is bringing out all the "what have you done for me lately" generation. And Gen X & Gen Y has done . . . what was that again? Oh yeah, NOT VOTE or get involved in any way except to blame the fogies.

little far fetched if you ask me. That means no one else has a roll in what's wrong. That isn't true at all.

If you look at the exit polls from 2004, you'll see that while the baby boom generation supported chimpy over kerry by a narrow margin, that margin was even greater for the generation that followed (those born between 1960 and 1974).

then you should try to look at the break down the numbers of baby boomers... Who should have been the best informed to vote and participate in elections? Those who grew up with "duck and cover" cold war mentality, then experienced Viet Nam with less corporate media and no interet?" Is the balance of dialogue and political awareness supposed to be statistically higher "in generation x'ers? Yers? Are the same boomers who were listening to "Up with People" and loving Pat Boone out to lunch all the way into their 60's? These are good questions, guys.

How about the fact that we are the first generation to do better than their parents? I know we had it better growing up than the 20 to 35 year olds did statistically a generation later.

Finally, boomers, even though placed as the caretakers of the generation above and below them (more kids are not out of the nest)- could be really bad parents because they think they had to "do it all" and try to do more materially to their kids.

I think the ball has been dropped by AT LEAST half of our generation. Why? Because a lot of us, I believe, still do our level best to promote values and get involved while taking care of "all of the above".