Today I have to tell two families their children can't live with them anymore.

Two families with 8+ children each. Two families with a history of severe physical, emotional, verbal, and sexual abuse and as well as severe neglect. I don't know why I'm feeling so nervous about having to do this. My stomach is in knots this morning. The children are trapped in a bad environment created by their parents. It's better for them to be out of there. And their fathers are perverted, sadistic and cruel. Scum child abusers. At least they won't be able to harm their children anymore. But some of the children want to go back. That's the worst part. They want to be with their parents so badly. They don't care that it will likely cause them to be irreparable damaged, psychologically and emotionally. This is the worst part. But difficult decisions have to be made.

in the Land of No Winners.

This is making me sick.

"Is better than the monster you don't know". Those poor kids. And poor you. You'll be in my thoughts today. Best of luck.

-- some shamans say you shouldn't feel sorry for them--I mean the victims, the children. I don't mean to be insensitive. I mean it's better to admire them for their strength and resilience. Have faith in them.

It's better to send that out into the universe than "Oh, the poor things," even though you have to feel that first. Just take it another step.

"some shamans say you shouldn't feel sorry for them--I mean the victims, the children." I do feel sorry for them.

But the children in these families are strong and resilient. We just want them to have better opportunities then their parents are able to give them. We hope to keep them from being victimized any further. That includes being victimized within the system. That's why it's especially hard for me. Some of these kids are willing to be harmed just to be away from us and be in their own family.

They are lucky to have someone that will look out for their best interests. Good thoughts your way. Peace and love, Kim

I would feel very good about getting those kids out. Let em see what real people live like, and they might not want to go back! Remember, they are the ones you are protecting, not the abusive parents!

Unfortunately, settling into a comfortable and nurturing foster care situation (they do exist) can feel like the worst kind of betrayal of your family.

It is your responsibility to see that those kids have a chance to live a happy life. You didn't create the situation they're in, the parents did. It's fine to feel sorry for them, but you need to remember that the option of leaving the kids there isn't a good one at all.

Perhaps this will be the turning point for those parents. They say sometimes people have to hit bottom before they realize what's going on. I would think having your children taken away from you is pretty much rock bottom.

Are these parents getting educated regarding preventing pregnancy? It sounds to me like they need to stop having kids, since they can't take care of the many they already have.

Don't feel bad, you're doing the right thing for the kids, and that is what's really important here. Better for the parents to be upset over what they've done than to allow the kids to continue to suffer.

You have a difficult job, but you are in a position to make the lives of those kids better in the long run. You should find comfort in that.

We gave all the parents a chance. The fathers refuse to take any responsibility for their actions. "It's the kid's fault, it's my wife's fault, it's my ex's fault, it's the systems fault." We can't depend on the mother's to be protective of the children. One mom jumped her 15yo daughter because she was "having sex with her husband." Not that her husband was treating their 15yo like his mistress. One mom said she would send all her kids back to their abusive father if that's what they wanted. She wants the kids to have a "good" relationship with their dad. Fucking clueless.

I have found myself in fairly similar circumstances pretty often over the years. I'm a psychologist, so in my case I've had to testify about the personalities and psychopathology in cases like that. In fact, on Tuesday I have to testify in a battered-woman/sexual abuse case. It's not fun, but you have to take as broad a perspective as you can. For example, I often remind myself that my job is to provide the legal system with the best information I can, so that the best decision can be arrived at.

We help make these recommendations in a multidisciplinary team to give to the State and to the court. I'm usually pretty detached about my work. But these two cases came to me around the same time and all 16+ children are at an age where lives can either take a turn for the better or a turn for the worse. I feel too close to these cases and I'm glad they're almost over. The informing interviews with the adults is the last step. I'm actually avoiding it right now though. Thanks DU.

what a difficult thing for you to have to do. Just know that you are thinking of the childrens best interests and their futures.

Peace. Dawn

The answer is no. The fathers were indicated for abuse by the State. In my experience, prosecutors won't pick up a child abuse case unless it is a clear cut winner. It's always the child's word against the adult's. One case was of incest, but the 15yo had a history of promiscuity and no direct evidence could be gathered that pointed to her father. Just her report. This teenager is now having a sexual identity crisis. She thinks she is lesbian, but she has had boyfriends. She says she's gay because her father abused her. Her father, a faux christian, put her out of the house because he won't "allow her to be gay and talk to those gay girls." He went back to the old destruction of S&G. Sicko. In the other case it was mostly emotional and verbal abuse as well as severe neglect. I don't think that's a criminal charge unless it ends in the death of the child. This guy is another faux christian. An alcoholic who "got saved and got sober." Whatever. I'm an atheist, yet MY morality is constantly in question.

you've got a hard job. I was 'rescued' (twice!) from a very bad situation when I was very young. My brother and I found ourselves in a loving, if strict, home of honest-to-god real christians who are (gasp) fallible people just like everyone else. Now, I'm guilty of bashing christianity because of asshole practitioners, but please keep in mind that this particular spiritual belief isn't evil, the people you see abusing children are.

Anyway 30 years later my brother and I have our difficulties but I can see how much better our lives have been because of people like you who have your courage.

Thank you for sacrificing your own personal comfort and peace of mind to help children who need you, even if they don't know it now.

Maybe you can tell them I said hi, and that I said the sky's the limit for them now. They won't be kept away from their parents forever (you can't keep them away after they're grown can you?) and by leaving, for now, they're actually helping their parents get their act together.

-c

And experience has on many occasions shown me that not only will the kids bounce back, but flourish in a more stable and loving environment.

And, of course, you are the messenger. Of course it will be uncomfortable :hug:. But know that you surely didn't make the decision alone and the ultimate decision was made long ago by the parents who were abuse to and/or unwilling to protect their children.

Thanks for all you do to make those kids' lives better.

was terribly abused by her parents. everything changed for her and her siblings after they were removed by the state.

its always for the best. the real shame is she had to endue it for so long

We hear horror stories of what goes on in *some* foster homes, and stories of kids who get moved from home to home to home.

Every kid has a right to feel safe in their home, but kid in an abusive home has to shut down to where they can't feel much anything. When "safe" equals "dad(or whomever)'s not pissed/drunk/what have you," rather than not having to worry about being harmed, they don't know how fucked up it is until they witness the difference.

Best of luck finding someone who will teach them that difference.

However, your job is to think of what's best for the children, and you have to accept that the children cannot make that decision for themselves. That's where you come in as a trained outside entity to make these calls without the entanglement of the emotions the children harbor.

My thoughts will be with you today.

It will be hard, because children have an instinctive desire to be with their parents, and among the types of kids who come from abusive homes, there is fear of the foster care system, due to often-repeated stories of "bad apple" foster parents.

Let's hope they find good foster and/or adoptive homes that will provide love and staiblity.

and lots of hugs for the kids

And thanks for the distraction. I'm feeling so much better.

Their parents, though, deserve whatever form of Hell that they've earned for themselves.

I'm a clinical social worker, if it helps knowing that, and have found working with people to be challenging, frustrating, infuriating, beautiful, scary, amazing, startling, and a hundred other emotions, sometimes with the span of seconds. I would encourage you to understand why this is causing you so much discomfort as a way to help yourself. I also love a good paradox, and can find a lot of strength in the face of feeling helpless before the free will of others; I often tell myself "when nothing you do matters, all that matters is what you do." Cliche but it works for me.

You are in a highly emotionally charged career and bless you for it! Take care of yourself and take as many precautions as you need to in order to be safe today and in order to care for yourself as well.

They might have services that can help these children.

http://www.kidspeace.org/fcfs_los.htm

doing is the best for the children. You stated that some of the children want to go back and be with their parents. This sounds so much like the abused spouse that stays or returns to the abusive situation. Eventually they feel like if they had only been better that the abuse wouldn't have happened. They have such low self esteem that they blame themselves for what has happened to them.

to try to protect my great-grandchild from a meth-addicted mother. I can only hope that the professionals involved are as concerned for us as you are for those children. This child has been flourishing in our family for over 3 years - and now this person who has already abandoned 2 other children; who has a lengthy felony record; who left this child in dangerous & filthy conditions - wants unfettered access. There has always been court-supervised visitation available to her but she's never done that.

I'm an agnostic, but ask the Spirit to guide us both today and bless the children.

You, and the many others like you, deserve our praise and support for what you do.
:hug:

Bless you for what you do :hug: