And do we have to spend the $700 bil if it's not going to do anything?

Some bailout delusionals are still at it.

After all, the stupid "hey, we waited 10 minutes and it's not fixed" post makes me feel like I should be more patient.

To base an opinion on the first few hours of trading is just nutty. :hi:

You really think nearly a trillion dollar passes into the right hands in a few days?

2-4 WEEKS minimum

Good lord, sometimes around here . . . :eyes:

RIGHT NOW!

OR the financial system was going to crash and burn.



And they're going to ask for another. And another!

IF THE FUCKING THING ISN'T WORKING RIGHT NOW, IT'S A FAILURE!!!

my thoughts exactly.

A lot of people here seem to be confused that the DJIA is the economy. You guys really think the 30 companies in that index are suddenly worth 7% less than they were at 9:00 am? Yeah the market cap has gone down, but that's a result of speculation, not investment.

Ah Hoover would love you

are talking about. You said the bailout would fix the problem. It hasn't. Period.

your solutions are down right hooverian

By the way... you expected THIS TO WORK OVERNIGHT?

That is idiocy at its best.

By the way NOBODY TOLD YOU that this was such a solution

You keep misreprensting it... WHY IS THAT

Amazing... the Murican people are weak in their knowledge of history and macro economics, but strong in magical thinking

And expecting this to work like magic salts, is magical thinking.

UNLIKE YOU... I KNOW I need to wait for this to be implemented and to KEEP FIGHTING to get the New Deal kind of legislation WE NEED

I haven't offered jack shit. I have said nowhere that I support the collapse or the allowing of a collapse. I'm losing everything just like everybody else. I am only an observer. You were wrong. Has nothing to do with Hoover nor have I ever even studied the Great Depression or Hoover. History is your game, Nadin. But this is the PRESENT. NOT HISTORY. All I can go by, lacking you immense knowledge, is what I'm seeing right now.

You were wrong about the bailout and now you're are attempting to cover your mistake by trying to make me look stupid. I could give a shit about Hoover or the Great Depression right now, though you live and breathe it. All I care about right now is what I'm seeing RIGHT NOW!

You are no longer credible on this issue. Good day.

They needed the LEGISLATION now. Not the money. They needed to give assurances that the money would soon be in the pipeline via the legislation they passed last week.

If they HADN'T passed the bailout legislation,

HOW BAD DO YOU THINK IT MAY HAVE GOTTEN TODAY?

wasn't it all about the confidence this would inject into the system? A big stinking corpse of a failure, I fear.

They think a president's signature means instant results I guess. That's rarely the case.

crash TOMORROW! They got their fucking taxpayer funded bailout money but the thing is crashing ANYWAY! JUST AS SOME HERE PREDICTED.

You bailout cheerleaders WERE WRONG!!!

You don't know what is going on, because you're too impatient to actually see what happens.

to prevent the meltdown that is happening RIGHT NOW. RIGHT THIS MINUTE! You are wrong. You are discredited on this issue.

if trust had been restored to the financial systems by throwing over $700 billion at it?

I don't think your post is dumb.

The bailout for billionaires will never work. For the last 30 years the corporations have been eating up the American middle class. They have eaten so much of it, that there is no longer a middle class remaining to support all our idle rich.

because they didn't like the rules.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/05/wall.street.bailout





This is going to get really interesting...

We're going to have a recession anyway. The point of the bailout is to address some of the structural problems existing in the financial system in order to avoid the recession turning into a full-blown depression. The argument that it was important to get to work ASAP on a bailout (which I agree with) is not the same as saying it's going to straighten everything out overnight.As some others have said, the optimal result would be is lending spreads started to drop by the end of this month.

I have a two paragraph plan for how Congress can give me 2 trillion dollars and everything will be okay.

many here predicted, the financial system is crashing anyway!

They'll bail it out and then bail it out again. They'll do it until it's settled. Then we'll deal with hyperinflation. We only have two choices at this point -- no money at all or badly damaged money. I'll take the badly damaged kind. $15 for a chicken for awhile will hurt but we'll all adapt. Better that than widespread starvation.

And it's clear that there will be yet another handout to Bushco.

The only saving grace here was that the bailout was never supposed to work in the first place. I await the cheerleaders when they say we need more.

Of course, it might be a bit expensive.

They'll continue telling you everything is going to be peachy keen. :crazy:

We won't "know" how this all plays out for a long time. But, we can make predictions. The world economy is FUBAR at this point and many will suffer as a result of incredible greed, crime, and incompetence that brought it about.

Almost assuredly, there will be massive changes in the "world order" which will bring turmoil.

"May you live in interesting times" is a Chinese curse. Things have gotten very interesting in a big way with this catastrophe and things are going to change..perhaps catastrophically.

patience right now, but sit tight. It's going to be a wild ride, and I doubt we've seen the bottom yet, but we will. I just heard Mort (Kondrackie I think that's his name) on MSNBC and he said WS is going to over-react on the way down the same as it over-reacted on the way up, and I agree with that! It's been a very long time since there's been any logic on WS, if there ever was, and there sure isn't NOW!

The way I see the current situation is, if Congress had not passed ANYTHING, there may have been the same reaction today, BUT Congress would have been blamed for the WHOLE MESS because they did NOTHING!

the financial system as it was sold both by DU cheerleaders and by Paulson/Bernanke.

NOBODY told you these were magic salts

And off to the ignore pile you go

I can't stand IGNORANT KOOKS and you are one of them

wrong and can't stand the heat.

Chicken shit.

Wall Street may shun $700bn bail-out - TO KEEP GOLDEN PARACHUTES!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4179120



Looks like they may not even want your vaunted bailout!

Thanks for trying to give our kids' and grandkids' money away!!!

But there are powerful maniacs standing in front of the glass with the axe in it. They have to step aside before the door can be broken down and the fire put out.

The rational people aren't vicious enough to shoot them down. They have to be persuaded.

One normally has to wait a couple posts before one of these contradicts itself.

"... has failed ..." " ... going to do ..."

Please stop watching the DOW so closely. It just gives you heartburn.

might have already prevented.

they DIDN'T GET IT, the financial system would collapse TOMORROW. They GOT IT, yet the financial system is collapsing ANYWAY.

What part of that don't you understand? Series.

The law passed. No funds have been distributed and won't be until into November. The urgency was due to two broad factors. 1) The psychological impact of passage of a plan was hoped to have a slight effect on the credit system. 2) Most importantly, any real results will involve a necessary delay while attempts at valuation and decisions about distribution are made. It's sort of like a treatment for cancer. No, you're not going to die today, but if you don't start treatment now, it will be too late to start it next month.

Shouting repetitively and using cutesy phrases and words doesn't change the reality of the situation.

People also need to grasp that the credit markets and the financial system ate global in nature, and treatment (and responses to treatments will be global.

Often times the treatment can be quite painful as well, even deadly on its own if not managed correctly.

And this would be the reason I, you, and everyone else I've seen talk about this reasonably keeps repeating the same thing over and over again (only to have our words utterly ignored). An enormous amount of work and legislation will be needed before we begin to resolve this crisis in a reasonable manner.

I think we may have seen the embryonic beginnings of that in Waxman's committee hearing today. The whole system is going to need restructuring to rescue it from the damage these bastards have done to it in the last (going on) 30 years.

And you are certainly correct about the global aspect of this. This is a very bad time for us to be seen as an anathema in so much of the world. Obama will need to pick his Secretaries of Treasury, Justice, and State especially very carefully and wisely, and it is vitally important we continue to work to make certain he is elected.

as my bet is that an Obama victory coupled with substantial Democratic gains will create some confidence in the world that the US is serious about dealing with this (and other matters) responsibly.

Also, as I've noted a couple of times before, I think we may still see stock injections (i.e. buy ins of equities- preferred stock) which is something many economists have argued for.

Just one of many tools at the Feds disposal to recapitalize the banks and get credit flowing again.

it is going to be a long four years

it is going to be a long four years

The financial Luddites must not have formulated their snappy one-line comeback yet. Good show.

I will grant you this, there was no stock market "boom" after it was annouced. That single fact worried more than anything.

Considering they haven't started buying any of the troubled assets yet, I'd say it's rather early to be making that judgment. It will be a few weeks before we can say how well it has or hadn't worked.

the financial system from IMMEDIATE FAILURE. Now all of a sudden the immediacy is null? I don't think so. The bailout, as it was sold to Congress, has FAILED.

As an analogy, if you have a heart attack and they hit you with a defibrillator, it might stop you dying but you're not ready to return to work the following day. It's been said over and over that it will take at least a couple of weeks to know whether the treasury purpose of troubled assets is working as intended or not.

From 9:00 this morning:

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/06/the-fed-moves-again/?mod=googlenews_wsj

As we all should.

It's not what your country can do for you...

and see what happens? Instead ... focus on health care for us all, affordable homes, loans to start small businesses like Pop & Mom kind, etc.

Delivered.

Transfers of billions (tens, hundreds?) to our creditors.

This law was never intended to fix our problems, it was to fix our master's problem, now that's done the rest doesn't matter.

The way I saw it, the bailout was always meant as a psychological boost to the markets, both stock and credit, to stop a meltdown, freeze, collapse etc...
It was obvious that it would take a while to implement, but like drilling off shore, the impact on the overall problem would be minimal. $700 billion will not fix a market with over $50 trillion in bad derivatives. The urgency by Paulsen and Bernake was that we MUST reassure the market and do it now.
Well the markets aren't reassured.
Arguing that it could be worse without the bailout is really weak considering the huge sum we are talking about.
I'm sorry to say this in DU, but the advocates sound like bush trying to convince us that thing would be worse without his tax cuts. It's a lame argument.
And since people like Barry Ritholtz and Nouriel Roubini are also saying it's not working, I'll keep my company with the experts who have been right all along.

Next step: bail out the bail out, and right away. Stay tuned for more browbeating. :crazy: