Would an Obama win mark the first time an African has been in charge of any developed country?

I'm wracking my brain and I can't think of any prime minister or president of the developed, western world that has claimed a significant African heritage anywhere. Am I missing someone? If so, this would be an awesome way to prove that America can still outdo its peers!

...hm.

a developed nation anymore.

I would have also accepted parts of the Arab world, Japan and South Korea. Maybe China too, these days.

South Africa doesn't quite count since it's not really developed. Developed countries don't have rolling blackouts, frequent outbreaks of horrible tribal violence, staggeringly massive gaps between the wealthy and poor (developed countries just have -massive- ones), huge HIV rates, etc. I don't want to start a huge debate, but it's an utter fallacy to put it in the same categorey that houses Japan, Australia, Sweden, etc.

If you doubt me on that point, good on you. Go to the economist.com or the bbc news service and read through their sections on the place. Then come back and tell me that SA is a fully fledged developed nation. I'll grant you that it's better off than any of the other 50+ Sub Saharan African nations, but that's only by comparison.

That being said, it's exciting that this is the first time that one of the most developed nations would be led by a person of half African ancestry. We've come a long way and that's extremely, profoundly exciting.

Why?

They aren't say England or France but they are way better than any sub saharan country in Africa.

He was born in the United States

My post count isn't in the 1000s like the rest of you since I generally spend my limited online free time reading more substantive material rather than posting one offs. I'm not, as many of you would imply, a troll.

I think it's great that Obama can claim his Kenyan heritage AND his European heritage. Just as I claim my indo-Guyanese, South African (an aside on that point-- I've been there, too, and even though it was great on some levels, it's appalling on others), Finnish AND Norwegian heritage. That's America for you-- you can be American and retain your history and be PROUD of that history all at the same time. Frankly, it's rather inspiring to me from the angle of him being mixed alone, let be the fact that, apparently, it WILL be the first time, ever, in the history of the world that a very powerful, wealthy nation will be headed by someone of a racial makeup that is considered to be atraditional for that nation. That is leaps ahead of where the rest of the developed world seems to be languishing right now-- with almost all leadership being elected from a more historically traditional (for each respective nation) pool of applicants.

edited: brackets translate as html here, apparently.

:evilgrin:

"Perhaps not the most transparent post, but certainly in the running." "Pizza anyone?"

and

... "...hm"

People seem to be insinuating that I was trying to stir something up, when, in retrospect, what happened is that people were quick to cast judgment on a post that I could have worded better with a few disclaiming sentences. Still, I think it's onerous to have the fist instinct when confronted with something you feel as though you might disagree with be to leap for the jugular rather than to ask for clarification. That's Fox News territory, not the terrain of rational people.

They are just insinuating you are a fucking idiot, then.

Maybe not. Troll might be it.

use it on all asshole DUers

But resort to it I just may! Thanks for the suggestion, I didn't realize this forum gave you the option to ignore.

not sure if you have to have a star (donation to DU) to use the Ignore function though

Just as many people of color and people of varied European ancestry claim theirs. What's wrong with that?

If he's elected, he'll be America's first African-American president. But the poster wasn't asking about just America; she was asking about any developed nation. If an African-British person was elected Prime Minister of Great Britain, he or she wouldn't be African American. Or, if an African-Canadian was elected Prime Minister of Canada, same thing. Since the word to describe a person who's a citizen of one country but whose heritage is from Africa is African-(Name of country of citizenship), and the second part of the term would be different for every country that the person was a citizen of, the only part of the term that's common to people of African heritage in EVERY developed nation is "African".

Exactly.

Pizza anyone? :popcorn:

IBTT

Koffi does deserve some credit because he was pretty great at what he did and the UN is certainly important. But, that being said, it isn't quite the same thing since it's a position that average citizens can't vote for-- it's appointed.

Shocker. It's sorta a sad comment on the state of things that I'd be instantly met with suspicion upon making the initial post. If you suspect something's up, why not ask a person to clarify before attacking, insinuating, or putting words in their mouth?

By the way, here's a recent article on the state of South Africa: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7142105.stm

he was born in johannesburg, which by definition makes him an african.

if you meant to ask if obama would be the first black to run things, you should just say "black".

South Africa is not a developed nation by any standard. Its own politicians and people realize that, why can't you? I bet there are quotes from Mandela about it somewhere, glowing and filled with hope about its potential, no doubt, but no one seriously classifies it as developed.

Stuff like this makes me want to move to Denmark just a little more every time it happens... I think we all have a love/hate relationship with America in many ways and one of my hates is certainly people who ATTACK without any footing and then refuse to concede that things may not have been as they seemed. It seems that democrats do it as much as Republicans, just that the triggers are different. The soundbite driven culture of vitriol just drives me nuts. Which, I suppose, is why I avoid this board for the most part, other than when I want an answer to a not easily googleable question.

Ugh.

nm

...didn't fit in the subject line. You people are infuriatingly incapable of reading more than a sentence it seems. I have addressed this contention above (claiming heritage =/= anti-American) and no one has rebutted it.

For it's time, the Roman Empire was pretty darn developed (and Italy counts as "western")...

:P

Thanks for that, petronius, that's an interesting tidbit I never knew before.

a Semitic people, just like modern-day Arabs and Israelis.

Not to mention his wife was from Syria.

Most scholars, however, consider his ancestries Mediterranean with possible Berber heritage. Thus you may sometimes hear he was the first "black" emperor of ancient Rome, but the academic jury is very much out on that matter. African Emperor, yes, black emperor, unknown.

Honestly, as a Romanist, I wish it were more definite that he was black, but it isn't.

There is no doubt, however, that he was a Roman citizen born and raised in North Africa and therefore, as Tony Birley's book is titled, "Septimius Severus, the African Emperor."

Other Romans made fun of his African accent and the darkness of his skin, but the color categories used to describe him are also used to describe dark-skinned Greeks, Turks, Syrians, Jews, etc. as well as Africans, so that kind of leads to a dead end.

The one painted portrait of him (the only panel painting of any members of the Imperial Family to survive from antiquity) shows him with skin which is darker than his wife or children, but it is a sample of one. I know of no marble portraits bearing remaining traces of paint. So, that is another dead end.

As I say I wish it were more definite that he was black because it would be another great example of the many examples of 1) Roman color-blindness when it came to achieving power and 2)fabulous contributions of Black Africans in antiquity other than in Egypt.

I could go into much more detail, but it would bore people. And, yes, I have a Ph.D. in Roman Art and Archaeology and I'm not making this stuff up.

I did know that his ancestry is uncertain - I was playing with the black vs. African joke others have alluded to (FTR, I understood where the OP was coming from, and do not have a problem with it). I've always found Roman history fascinating, ever since high school Latin class, but unfortunately I've never had time to learn enough about it. So, post away!

Is this the painting you referred to?

http://www.apollonius.net.nyud.net:8090/Images/sev.jpg

Honestly, in retrospect, I should have made more qualifications in the initial post. I can sorta see how people might misread it, but still, ASK first rather than just make one off snarky comments or worse. When I went back to try and edit such tidbits in, the editing time had already elapsed and it seems that no one reads through a thread before posting. Oh well, no huge deal, just a mildly depressing comment on the state of modern discourse.

be the reactor that fuels the world. Until then, just put a star next to your name and run your post count up to a couple thousand and you will automatically be endowed with the most impeccable progressive credentials (the actual content of your posts will still be ignored, misrepresented, and generally abused, however)...

:rofl:

I agree with you that someone from Libya at that time wouldn't necessarily be black. I don't know how the demographics have shifted over time, but I currently live in Morocco and have traveled in North Africa extensively. Sadly, I can't go to Libya since it's nigh onto impossible for an American to get a visa, but from what I've seen in Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria and Egypt is that the population is almost entirely -devoid- of black Africans and is instead a mix of 'berber' (there's a movement toward using the term Imazighen instead of berber since it means "free people" instead of barbarians, by the by) and Arabic people, with a few Andalucians thrown in for good measure. It's quite fascinating that there are very few people of Sub Saharan African descent living in the Maghreb these days and it wouldn't at all shock me if this hasn't been the case in the region for thousands of years.

Thank you! :hi:

Thanks for that! :)

An American with African roots.

:shrug: just such an amazing coinkydink I guess

as dennis hopper points out in "true romance"- sicilians are 'eggplants':

Coccotti: Sicilians are great liars. The best in the world. I'm a Sicilian. And my old man was the world heavyweight champion of Sicilian liars. And from growin' up with him I learned the pantomime. Now there are seventeen different things a guy can do when he lies to give him away. A guy has seventeen pantomimes. A woman's got twenty, but a guy's got seventeen. And if you know 'em like ya know your own face, they beat lie detectors to hell. What we got here is a little game of show and tell. You don't wanna show me nothin'. But you're tellin' me everything. Now I know you know where they are. So tell me, before I do some damage you won't walk away from.
Cliff: Could I have one of those Chesterfields now?
Coccotti: Sure.
Cliff: Got a match? Oh, don't bother. I got one. So you're a Sicilian, huh?
Coccotti: Uh-huh.
Cliff: You know I read a lot. Especially things that have to do with history. I find that shit fascinating. In fact, I don't know if you know this or not, Sicilians were spawned by niggers.
Coccotti: Come again?
Cliff: It's a fact. Sicilians have nigger blood pumpin' through their hearts. If you don't believe me, look it up. You see, hundreds and hundreds of years ago the Moors conquered Sicily. And Moors are niggers. Way back then, Sicilians were like the wops in northern Italy. Blond hair, blue eyes. But, once the Moors moved in there, they changed the whole country. They did so much fuckin' with the Sicilian women, they changed the blood-line for ever, from blond hair and blue eyes to black hair and dark skin. I find it absolutely amazing to think that to this day, hundreds of years later, Sicilians still carry that nigger gene. I'm just quotin' history. It's a fact. It's written. Your ancestors were niggers. Your great, great, great, great, great-grandmother was fucked by a nigger, and had a half-nigger kid. That is a fact. Now tell me, am I lyin'?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqccyUpnZwA

black presidents.

http://indisputabletruth.wordpress.com/2007/12/18/research-shows-that-we-have-had-5-black-presidents-in-our-history/

on edit another link: http://www.geocities.com/cureworks1/5blkpres.htm

At first glance they seem a bit far fetched but I will definitely look into sourcing it with other data. Thanks.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

He wasn't a leader of a nation but was secretary general of the UN, which is in itself a position of high power and responsibility. I honestly don't know of any leaders of OECD nations (I assume you are narrowing this down to OECD nations) who were descended from Africans, at least not by 2 or less generations.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28737

Nigeria Elects Black President

February 21, 2001 | Issue 37•06

ABUJA, NIGERIA–In a historic triumph for Nigeria's African-African community, Bilikisu Adewale, a 49-year-old black man, was elected president Monday.

Bilikisu Adewale waves to supporters after becoming the next black man ever to lead Nigeria.

"Today is a great day for the people of Nigeria," Adewale told a cheering crowd in his 30-minute acceptance speech. "But even more so, today represents a tremendous victory for this nation's black citizens, who came to the polls in full force to put one of their own in power."

"I am overwhelmed," Adewale added. "This is truly precedented."

Addressing the largely black crowd, Adewale, who served as Nigeria's Foreign Minister from 1993 to 1998, pledged to defend the interests of the nation's sizable black community. Among his chief campaign promises was to increase funding for schools in Nigeria's inner cities, outer cities, and middle cities–areas with a high concentration of blacks.

"I grew up in an extremely poor, all-black section of Lagos and attended schools that were overcrowded and horribly equipped," Adewale said. "For many blacks of my generation, the experience was the same. I want every member of the current generation of black youths to read from new textbooks and learn in state-of-the-art facilities. We must leave no child behind."

As a further measure, Adewale said he planned to declare March "Black History Month." Throughout the month, he said, the nation will celebrate "the remarkable and oft-overlooked contributions of Nigerians of color."


etc

He happens to be half African, and 100% American.

Some Caribbean and South American countries are "developing" but some are better understood as middle or low income developed countries, given their infrastructure and their current levels of political stability, especially the offshore banking countries.

Most leaders in the region are of mixed race. Don't have time to look it up specifically, but I would guess you might find a postive answer in places like Panama or Costa Rica. Chavez is clearly mixed race, and you could call Venezuela either a developing country or a low/middle income developed country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha%C3%ABlle_Jean

Who does have most of the attributes of a ceremonial head of state.

...how do we define developed? Columbus tripped over the continent on his way to find a shortcut to India, we're told...and though it isn't used as much as it was previously, third world country sounds like colonialism...there's probably been quite a number of them--they just didn't make the headlines of the Times.

shrug...The Palm Wine Drinkard?