Army Question - Administrative Separation Under Adverse Conditions?

What the hell does that mean? My son, two years out of the ANG just received orders to report for Bush's Excellent Iraqi Adventure. The cover letter says failure to report or contact his MAAT will result in being considered for "administrative separation under adverse conditions".

Anybody know what that means?

I'm sorry if I'm sounding dense - but what does that mean? Is there some kind of "real life" consequence if he chose to not show up? Could he wind up in jail?

Or is it no more than a piece of paper? Does it mean the worst that will happen is he won't be eligible for a freakin' VA loan, or could be embarrassed if he wanted to run for public office in another 20 years? Cause if that's all it is - and official "you suck" from the military - I think we can live with that.

Operation Iraqi Freedom sucks too - let's call it even.

separation with a less than honorable discharge, at best, and with a dishonorable discharge at worst.

If it's not handled properly this will dog him for the rest of his life. It would probably be an administrative discharge or less than honorable...neither is a good option. He can't mess around with this. Take it seriously.

I've seen soldiers arrested for not reporting in as ordered.

I'm thinking maybe we should contact a lawyer before just wiping our ass with this thing and flushing it.

Has he actually received a discharge already, or is he still under the thumb of Congress and da Prez? If he still has a military obligation, then he'd probably better report. An other-than-honorable discharge (or worse) will follow him throughout his future employment; every American employer will want to see his DD214 form, and will ask hard questions about anything less than an honorable.

He's being "re-activated" per the "Presidential Executive Order of 14 September 2001", which I just read and I think authorized the Individual Ready Reserve thing.

I just found this GI Rights Hotline:
http://girightshotline.org/discharges/awolactive/index.shtml

I called them and feel much better now. They can't take away his already issued Honorable Discharge. Basically, according to what I was just told, is that it will add a "black mark to his permanent record". Oh well... I think we can live with that.

As far as it dogging him with future employers - I think that's going to be a non-issue, unless he wants to work for the federal government. Fat chance of that. And with the way this war is finally being understood to be a complete fuck up I don't see it being a big impairment in the future. My own opinion is that in the long run his refusal to participate in this clusterfuck - especially this late in the game - will be perceived as perfectly reasonable.

Besides, he has a steady work history with no gaps (he was in the National Guard) and doesn't depend on any benefits from his service. I don't even know if he mentions it on his resume or applications - it doesn't actually do anything for his "skill set"!

We've got plenty of time to consult with an attorney just to be on the safe side - but, I'm feeling heartened by what I've been told.

maybe jail time, but more importantly possible job, school, and career problems down the road.

Before chucking the notice, get some knowledgable opnions. Here's three places that know something about it, and the GI Rights Hotline might be able to refer you to a local lawyer experienced in thse things.

http://www.objector.org/

http://www.quakerhouse.org/index.php

http://www.afsc.org/Youth&Militarism/

They were really helpful! Will check out the links you posted as well.

This is basically what would happen under such a discharge, or black mark added to discharge.



Other Than Honorable (OTH)
A OTH is the most severe form of administrative discharge. This type of discharge represents a serious departure from the conduct and performance expected of all military members. OTH discharges are typically given to service members convicted by a civilian court in which a sentence of confinement has been adjudged or in which the conduct leading to the conviction brings discredit upon the service. It can also be given as the result of certain civil hearings, like a divorce for adultery. OTH discharges can be accepted in-lieu of court-martial proceedings at the service-member's request. Persons facing OTH are guaranteed, by the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the right to have their discharge heard by an administrative discharge board, which is similar to a court-martial but is not a public forum.

Recipients of OTH discharges are barred from reenlisting into any component of the Armed Forces (including the reserves), and are normally barred from joining the Army and Air National Guard, except under rare circumstances which require exception-to-policy waivers. As of September 2006, all 50 states had policies barring the reenlistment of UOTHC discharge recipients.

In addition, the majority of veterans' benefits are not available to individuals who receive an other than honorable conditions discharge, including the Montgomery GI Bill and (in most cases) VA healthcare benefits.

But relax. That's printed on all the letters and forms.

Under Adverse Conditions means the basis/reason(s) for the separation.

Punitive discharges are : dishonorable and bad conduct
Admin seps. are: honorable, general, and other than honorable