"Our pastor told us that the Democrats are evil".

My wife just got back from a family reunion in Alabama and that was what one of her aunts announced at the dinner table one night. Apparently, much of the family from the south agreed as they nodded and began discussing the evils of abortion, stem cell research, affirmative action, etc..., while the family from the north sat there in near silence (I didn't go strictly because I knew this kind of thing would come up and I've never been good at holding my tongue in these circumstances). It sounds like a common example of the political conflicts that happen all over the country but there are two things I got from that story that I just can't get over.

First, it seems to be commonly accepted, not just in the south but in many evangelical churches around the country, that demonizing the Democratic party and any other group the fundies hate is fair game, legality and morality be Damned. These churches know the sway they have over their congregations and use that to affect government policy by drawing lines between what they desire (good) and what they don't (evil). They know very well that when faced with an eternity of Damnation, many of their members will eschew logic for salvation and they exploit this for their own moralistic and financial benefit. Worse yet, they know they will get away with it.

Second, one of those northerners who sat there listening to these people talk about the evils of stem cell research couldn't stand up and argue her views - she's quadriplegic, living in a specialized wheelchair that assists her breathing via a tracheotomy tube due to an accident when she was 14 years old. My niece is now 19 years old and the doctors have told us she is not expected to live much longer. Nearly every expert agrees that stem cell research has the potential to repair the damage done to her spinal cord but that with little to no funding, advances are very limited. What galls me is that she had to sit there and listen to these people tell her that God says that the medical procedures that could save her life are evil. These people have created a death sentence for her because of the teachings they learned from their pastors.

I don't like to post maudlin threads but I want everyone here to know what we're up against. My wife's family aren't purposely cruel, they're maliciously misguided. They believe what the pastors of their churches tell them but those pastors are preaching hatred and death. My niece's story is just one example of the real life repercussions of allowing churches to break the laws separating church and state with impunity. It is most likely too late for stem cell advances to help her but there will be another young girl, or boy, who might have a chance at a future from the research done today - a chance that fades a bit with each day that we allow these fundamentalists to control our policy on stem cells.

I support freedom of speech, even the speech of those who advocate the cruelty I've just mentioned. If the pastors of these churches want to support repubs and call Democrats evil, that is their Constitutional right. However, I do not support enabling this kind of hatespeech at the taxpayers' expense. We subsidize these fundies by allowing them to remain tax exempt because of their claim of religious organization, but they have broken their tacit agreement with the People and they have broken the laws of the nation that preclude churches from advocating for a political party. It is long past time to stop this demonization of political parties and beliefs. We must demand that these hatemongering churches lose their tax exemptions for politicking as an example to others to discontinue their policies of affecting political races.

Sometimes it isn't just a matter of politics, it's a matter of life and death.

I want to fuck with for the next 8 years!

Fuck willful ignorance in the name of non-existent deities.

I know these types pretty well, because I was one of them for most of my life.

I was raised a Southern fundamentalist baptist. I know this group from the inside out. I used to believe in fundamentally the same things they believe.

It was when I opened my mind to concepts beyond the scope of their blinkered religiosity that I became a free thinker and a liberal Democrat.

I still live among these types... exposed frequently to their ignorance and blind hatred.


I am PROUD of the fact that I am no longer one of them. And yes, their WILLFUL IGNORANCE has earned them all the scorn and disdain I could ever express.

Realistically, I will not likely 'fuck with' many, if any, of these dumb fundie hicks. Once President Obama is declared the winner, I will merely smile contentedly as they froth and foam and wonder why their god has forsaken them!

they should be reported to the IRS, so that their tax exempt status can be revoked.
Plain and simple.

and don't let them get away with saying the Democratic Party is or Democrats are evil and then say...well we didn't endorse the Republicans, because in a tax court of law, it can be proven that a reasonable and sane person with out a vested interest in the case would conclude that that is an endorsement of one party or candidate over another. Get their fucking 501 (c) 3 status yanked.

"endorse" one in their official capacities, I agree. My own pastor, and her husband both have Obama/Biden stickers (that I gave them) on their cars.

We will not, however, put a lawn sign at their home, as the property is owned by the church.

I see a big difference.

that the satatement: "Democrats are evil." would accomplish that

..like a starving Wolf with a Porterhouse Steak.

Maybe..Just Maybe...When they have to pay enormous Taxes on their Land (like the rest of us), They'll learn about Separation of Church & State.

letting their congregations know exactly who the bad guys are, without quite coming out and endorsing candidates. Some of the pastors I know (and am related to) chose that field because they had political agendas and wanted the authority to advance those agendas without being criticized. Religion is such a sacred cow in this country that the right wing has gotten very bold. I find it very frustrating that they're preaching hate and ignorance like this, while convincing people their views are above criticism... because they're "men of God."

lynch mobs!

I grew up in a southern baptist church, and rejected their teachings early in life (around 9 or 10), because I knew it was bogus. You only believe this crap because it gives you comfort.

I'm glad there are no idiots like that in my family with the exception of my father in law.

I'd stay away from family gatherings.

Your "southern evangelical" part of the family may not be "purposely cruel" but they have a DUTY to resist being mailiciously misguided by New Hitler and his evangelical henchpersons.

My only hope is that they one day get the treatment they so richly desrve, as when General Patton forced 2,000 people JUST LIKE YOUR SOUTHERN FAMILY, to walk through the Death Camps they so denied existed.

Are there Death Camps in Amerika? No, not yet, but I am making a point to say that just because your Southern Family is not purposefully cruel, it doesn't fucking matter anymore.

They ahve had 8 years to notice New Hitler is just a kinder and gentler version of old Hitler.

They have NO excuse. Quite simply, at this point they are nothing less than monstrous Good Germans, enemies to America as created by the Founding fathers and to all of humanity.

For they are the eyes and ears, the fists and voice, of the direct spritual descendants of Nazi Monsters and their greatest American Allies, the Bushies, starting with Grandpa Prescott Bush, Hitler's old pal.

And if you think I am being hyperbolic IN THE LEAST, you need to listen to this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

They may not be purposefully cruel, but New hitler has made them cruel, and they have no excuse but idiocy and ignorance for not knowing. Because, like the Good Germans, THEY DON'T WANT TO KNOW.

Fuck them. They deserve nothing less than the lives of their victims, the Iraqis. Not that they will get it.

The world isn't going to stop New Hitler, not this time. With Peak Oil and Global Warming coming at us like a freight train, don't be surprised if most of the world's leaders (as they already seem to now) accept the monstrous cruelty of Bushevism (and we have not yet seen their Final Solution to the Liberal Problem yet) and ally with it.

But then I realized it wasn't that I wanted to take their side, it was because of your obvious anger in denouncing them.

I read your post a few times and there is really nothing there that I disagree with. They are the good Germans of 1933-1945. Their leaders are feeding them lies and they eat them up because it's easier than going out and gathering their own sources of knowledge. That is always the recipe for disaster.

They may well deserve the fate of the Iraqis, or the Germans post 1945; I can't make that judgment. I will say that we need to do a lot in this country to change attitudes on independent thought and education in general.

And, yes, I do believe there will be a new Hitler who runs things for a time; there usually is one during times of great upheaval. But like all totalitarians, he will be deposed and the cycle will begin again. I'm enough of a coward to hope that it doesn't happen in my lifetime.

Don't let the Bushie-KKK element let you forget that FACT.

South-bashing is counterproductive and false.

Thsi is not to deny that historically the South has been the HQ of Bushveism. That, too is a fact. But it does NOT mean "the South is complete bullshit".

It is NOT. I'll say it again. There are MILLIONS of good and decent people in the South.

There are good and decent people EVERYWHERE. Not just in the South, but everywhere society has "turned bad". In every age and in every nation, there have always been decent people, no matter how evil a society has become.

Witness Rev. Neimoller and Oskar Schindler, in the midst of the most extreme example of pure evil the world jhas ever known.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Really?

Better off without the Southern Democratic Votes, evil and racist though they may have been, which allowed FDR to sweep into power in 1932, and thus be in a position to stop the Bushies when they tried to take over America and bringus into alliance with Hitler?

(better listen to those wacky conspiracy theorists at the BBC before you dismiss this as hyperbole or unfactual nonsense)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

I trust I have made my point.

Sometimes evil inadvertantly serves good, though most time it is the opposite case, where good unwittingly serves evil.

In either case, I will say it again. Not only aresuch blanket statements bullshit in the extreeme, they are counterproductive at a time when we need unity.

But more, importantly, they are bullshit in the extreme. You may disagree, but I am willing to bet a majority of people agree with ME and not YOU.

the crap that this has had to endure because of the south far outweighs the few good souls who have come out of there. Just think of the civil war, the KKK, the southern church bombings, the civil rights worker killings, Wal Mart, and now the center of hate radio and hateful political leaders. All of that wouldn't have happened had it not been for the south. If you look at election since 1992, with out the south, they would have been won by the Democrat.

Had the Bushfederacy won in 1863 at Gettysburg, and hence the war (and a very amusing mockumentary deals with the subject - it's called "The CSA", I think) I think there is almost no question that had everything else remained roughly static, the Bushie South would have allied with Hitler's Germany (as the Bushies tried to do anyway, but Gen. Smedley Butler, the greatest American hero no one knows about, and FDR stopped them).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

At the very least, the North alone may not have been able to tip the scales in defense of liberty, ESPECIALLY considering the Bushies might have and probably would have joined the Axis.

First, Bushies and Nazis, though they'd never admit it, share a number of close views on many different topics.

Second, we see very clearly how often Bushies taken an opposite positon to Liberals just for spite, it seems.

I could see this arrogance writ large.

Point is, if the Bushfederacy wins in 1865, Hitler wins in 1945 and takes over the world, inclding it's partnership with the Bushie Fascist States of Amerika.

And I never existed.

That's my view of it. I respect your view, which is clearly informed by history.

I just disagree for reasons which I outlined above.

They wouldn't have survived as a nation long enough to get involved in WW2.
Seriously, think about it.

They had no mass manufacturing. They relied on an outdated labor concept.

Even had they gotten support from the French and English (which, by the way, was the whole point of attacking some point in the North - to prove they could win a northern offensive to skeptical, but potential, European allies), the French and English wouldn't have stuck around long after the conclusion of the war and the establishment of the Confederacy as its own sovereign nation.

This means they would have relied, exclusively, on trade agreements with the United States and Mexico. The United States would have still gone through the industrial revolution because they were the industrialized states. The hardware which made rural life easier would have been sold to the Confederacy. Slavery would have become cost ineffective.

And then what?
Little to no manufacturing, massive trade deficits with the United States even if the United States was the largest purchaser of Confederate farm goods, and millions of displaced slaves with nowhere to turn. By the beginning of the first World War they would have been begging to be readmitted to the Union.

------------- Moving on......

The Confederates were fascists? How in the hell do you figure that?

The root of the Confederacy was anti-Federalism. Slavery was being legislated federally. Anti-federalist Southern States believed the Federal government had no right to legislate it. The war didn't start over a moral crusade over whether slavery was right or wrong and didn't even turn into the moral war for the North until 1863.

Fascism can only exist if there's a strong national government. A confederation is the exact opposite of a strong national government. Each state in the Confederate States was their own governing body. For quite a long time, each state had their own currency, their own army. The only reason they even became the Confederacy was to pool resources, but all major issues were decided at the State level. This is another reason the Confederate States would have ultimately failed - they would have never allowed the "national" Confederate government to have the same degree of power as the old United States they just left.

Fascists because they supported slavery and oppression? Perhaps, but remember, there were slave states in the Union which remained slave states after the Emancipation Proclamation took effect at the end of the war. The worst race riots during the Civil War era were in Baltimore, MD and New York City.

I never said the Rebs were fascists. But they were "monarchists by another name" and you can shove that thin-veneer of anti-federalism because it reminds me of the Bushies' thin veneer of traditional conservatism.

I am speaking of a much larger picture here. And yes, the Confederates were not fascists. But they wereregressives who were rebelling against the very Founding Ideals they professed to revere.

Remind you of the Bushies today?

I don't really want to get into this, because it is all speculative what if anyway. Plus, I am arguing forest and you are replying trees (plus some hackneyed old Confederate Apologia).

So let's just agree to disagree and say GOBAMA! which I certainly hope we can agree on.

the Southern states to secede.

there would have been no candidate in 92, 96 or 2000.

Besides that - even Texas is polling at 38% Obama. That's "potentially" nine million people in that state who support Democrats. That's an awful lot of people to disenfranchise - even in a very red state.

I never owned a slave, and I didn't fight in the Civil War.

I only know that I was born in Texas, and raised in Arkansas, and I am just as American as you are, sir.

We don't need this type of BS in an election year or any year. Unity of country is the only thing that will move us forward. Divisiveness will bring nothing.

far outweigh the few good souls who have come out of there.

far outweigh the few good souls who have come out of there."

Ignorant when they say it. Ignorant when you say it.

Think about it.

The south has brought us: the Civil War, Wal Mart, KKK, States Rights, church bombings and 8 years of Bush (he wouldn't have had the electoral votes to win, had the south not been a part of the total!

I happened to have taught US History as a missionary to chilren of pastors. If the south hadn't started that shit in the first place...we wouldn't have had the civil war...it wasn't the north wanting to secede.

Seems like I remember hearing Howard Dean discussing a "50-State Strategy" once upon a time...

Long story short, do not screw around with Texas. We have NASA's mission control, we're diversifying our energy resources, and we're just as ornery as ever. You need us.

Red or Blue? I'm betting red and there's 34 electoral votes we don't need to have applied against us!

You have no fucking idea what happened in Dallas County back in 2006. Virtually every race in our area went to the Democrats. Republicans across the state soiled themselves in response, and are now in full damage control.

You want to see more Democratic Representatives and Senators coming out of Texas? You want to see our electoral votes go to a Democratic Presidential candidate? Stop bitching and start doing something about it. That's a lesson I've had to learn for myself.

I spent 46 days in Texas last year 18 in Dallas, 6 in Houston, 9 in Austin, 8 in Lubbock and the rest in various other places..the only place of fresh air that I saw was Austin and that was due to UT being there.

We're also anticipating Democratic gains in Fort Worth, Austin, the Hill Country, the border towns, etc. Rick Noriega's numbers are climbing fast against John Cornyn in the Senate race. Our own Republican state senator, long-time incumbent John Carona, is running neck-and-neck against Democratic challenger Rain Minns. We have plenty to be optimistic about. Hell, this state voted for Hubert Humphrey over Richard Nixon back in 1968 - if we could do that, we can't be all that bad.

I was heartened to see some left movement in Dallas.

but then I figured that it might be more productive to say this.....If you dont like the way things are, work to change them. I have lived in Alabama all my life and I am a proud progressive. I work every day to change minds and attitudes here. And guess what? Its working. Quit your bitchin and do something about the things you dont like.

you might want to find out a little about the person you are accusing of not working...I came to the US as a child..studied for US citizenship and attained it (it wasn't just given to me, like those born in the south) My father (US soldier) died as a result of the Vietnam War...I graduated as a social worker. I have been one of those community organizers they talk about. In 1990 I ran against my congressman from the left because he was voting to fund the School of America's I recieved the most votes against him of anybody has before or since that race. two results 1) four weeks after the election he changed his vote on funding. 2) I took a free speech political yard sign case all the way up to the US Supreme Court and won it 9-0.

I have worked on every democratic campaign since I was 14 years old and that includes McGovern, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry and Obama either in a volunteer or paid capacity, so don't tell me to work for it.

;-)

On 10-27-88 we arranged a little welcome for Bush I it turned out to be the lead story on the national news that night on all 3 channels. He4 had to leave 17 early....I was spit on, hit in the head with a yard sign, had my glasses ripped off of me and punched and I was the one charged with inciting a riot (case dropped) since then no Republican presidential nominee has campaigned in the city limits of Tacoma..and WA went blue that year by 5000 vote!!!

have a nice day:)

What have you done, compared to what I have done? Also would you be able to pass a citizenship test at 14...I read a Harvard study that said 62% of all adults, yet alone kids can't!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: insecure much??:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

It's bad enough that we must tolerate them on a daily level. The South is a beautiful place with many wise people.

It's too easy for people to turn on Fox News and get their beliefs reinforced. I hope you're wrong about a new dictator, but I would not be surprised if that happens.

There will always be a large number of people who are willing to forfeit their own beliefs in order to belong or just because it's easier. The best we can do is ensure that everyone has the opportunity to learn better.

As for the totalitarian state, it has been a repeated event in history: Ancient Rome, the Dark Ages, Napoleon, Hitler, etc... The best one can say is that there is usually someone, or some alliance, able to rein these despots in nowadays, but there are still attempts at it (bush* and Putin are two good examples). Still, there will be future attempts and so long as they are accompanied with promises of protection and paternalism/maternalism, many will follow. I strongly believe that sarah palin would very happily assume the role of our next Dear Leader.

Nazis, Bushies, Freepers, they ALL deserve their say in the marketplace of ideas, vile as we might think them.

What they DON'T deserve is to assault the very mechanisms which have sustained America over 224 years (until the Bushies ended it, hopefully temporarily, on 12/12/2000) in order to gain unchecked power, and force their vision down the throats of the vast majotiy who don't want it.

And yes, Sarah is the Bushie Stalking Horse here. Make no mistake.

She fits the Tony Scalia/Clarence Thomas mold of Bushie Clone. Young. Conscience-less. Ruthless. Totally Obediant to Her Bushie Masters.

SHE is the dangerous Bushie monster of the two (McCain is like Reagan, a confused senile old puppet). On that score, I agree 100%.

Many of them are "Good Germans." Others, well, they are nothing short of Brownshirts. They just don't wear the uniforms like before. Those are the willfully ignorant ones.

'cause that's all I heard.

I agree with everything you wrote. "Maliciously misguided" and, might I add, willfully ignorant. When ignorance is dangerous to others, that's when I can't make excuses for it any longer.

This ignorance is dangerous, and it's becoming more violent.

Things aren't any better where I am in NC. While getting gas yesterday, a white woman about my age (40...I'm white, BTW) called me a "ni**er-lovin' terrorist."

It's gonna get a LOT worse.

In fact, given the nasty emails, signs being stolen, comments like that, and just what I'm reading here and there and seeing on TV, I'm having a hard time getting excited about Obama's win.

Don't get me wrong: I WANT him to win and I will be sooooooo relieved. But, there is such a large portion of this population who are racist/bigot/bible thumpers/Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter supporters that I truly don't understand how populations so very divided about fundamentals of life can coexist.

They are terrified and they are filled with hatred. And, by them being fed the "Obama is a terrorist, as are his supporters" line, it's gotten extraordinarily dangerous.

I am beyond depressed this morning. I really am.

If you were down in Walker Co., Alabama then you might have met them. When my wife's family comes up from Alabama I think they've been warned about me as I do have a history of losing my temper when racist comments are made. I will say that they are very friendly and polite to me but I think we all know that the shorter the visit, the better.

And I'm not just bashing the south here. I know many, many people from northern states who are the exact same way, Michigan is a very segregated state. Regardless of geography, there are too many people willing to surrender their opinions and beliefs to the will of spiritual leaders who use them for their own purposes.

I have relatives in Pittsburgh who are exactly the same.

Palin has emboldened them.

I was born and raised here.
After about 30 years away I chose to return.
There were a number of reasons.
Obviously, being among politically like minded people wasn't one of them.

I live in the reddest county in the state.
There is not one single Democratic elected (nor appointed) official here.
So about 6 years ago a dozen or so of us got together and started the South Baldwin Democrats.
It's been a long, slow struggle, but we're working to bring the two-party system back to Baldwin County.
We now have around 150 members.
That's 150 more than there were 6 years ago.

We work on voter registration, especially among blacks and hispanics.
We work on GOTV.
We won't achieve our goals overnight, but we all knew that going in.
By the yard, it's hard.
By the inch, it's a cinch.

kudos to you and the others fighting the good fight. :)

That's disgusting.

It's not. This was a family reunion with members from all over the country. It did happen that the northerners were less fanatical but that is merely due to the fact that the least fanatical member of the family moved north years ago, not because of an inherent difference in the populations. We also have family that is every bit as fanatical as those down south living within five miles of us.

The rules they agreed to in order to become a tax-free non-profit organization explicitly prohibit partisan political activity.

File a complaint with the IRS.

But cuz is too fundy-loony to get a church. He lasted two weeks as pastor of a PCA (Presbyterian Church in America) church in Atlanta. So he re-joined the Guard and went to Iraq as a Lt. Col. chaplain. He's back in Alabama now spewing his religious insanity.

Can't you just see him, striding across the courtyard in his shiny new black boots, glaring menacingly at the hungry, orange-jumpsuited Arabs and Lib'rul Terrorist Hippies? His eyes squinting, gazing, gazing for ONE just ONE sign of resistance.

A furtive glance of anger, a laborer being lazy on the job, or perhaps someone passing around a greasy mimeographed copy of a terrorist publication, the Homepage of DU (who's new home, ironically enough, is in Germany) from three months ago...

Now he pounces with all the righteous rage of the Godly on the Pagan Hippie. A billy-club to the solar plexus brings 'em down every time. These Arabs and hippies are so skinny and sickly from not taking care of themselves (hippies are so unhygenic), the inverted V of their ribcages makes a perfect target every time. They deserve it, filthy terrorists. They have it coming. Doesn't Sean Hannity say so? Doesn't his BOSS, the Lieutenant, a warm friendly man, lover of good wine and Dallas Cowboys Football, who prefers striking lazy hippies in the knees (most of the time not hard enough to break them), to as he puts it "get my message across in a way even a stupid, evil Liberal can understand", say so?

And HE's the BOSS. And this job has GOOD benefits, full health and dental. Most jobs don't.

There are no gas-chambers here. No ovens nor crematoria. No graves with tens of thousands here. Just some graves with hundreds, maybe a thousand or two, who all died because they were unaccustomed to hard physical labor. So, cuz KNOWS that HE isn't a Nazi. Why, the very idea is preposterous. Sure the Arabs and hippies do die in fearful numbers from sickness and exposure, but that's only because they aren't used to hard physical labor, these intellectuals. Do 'em some good to try it out and see they feel better.

Can you see it?

I can.

http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

Toooooooo funny!!! Time to get a net and an 'I love me jacket'!!!:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :silly: :silly: :silly: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

And that the stem cells needn't be embryonic. He was. He said that it's a lie to say that McCain/Palin don't support stem cell research when they do actually, but just not EMBRYONIC stem cell research.

I'd love some info to throw back at him if you have any.

is made, this adminstration won't let the research get to any clinical trial work. There was an article about it earleir this year, but I can't rememebr the name ofthe CA company that did the research using private funds, but then the nuts prevented public clinical trials.

Yes, there are many projects that have done well with adult stem cells, but there is much left to be done in research. I'd prefer that all of the different kinds of guns were brought out for the fight.

There's a LOT of research that can be done without embryos. Now, actual transplanation, cloning, etc. we don't do, so I can't speak to the resources needed for that. But almost all stem cell research can be done with non-embryonic sources: cord blood, testicles (just heard this one :) ), etc.

edited for spelling

I have an open mind;
I believe education makes for a better populace, not elitist, and should be affordable to everyone;
I believe in equal rights for all;
I believe government has no right intruding on the womens' reproductive choices;
I listen to that dirty evil metal music, but also to classical, country, bluegrass, R&B, rap and pop;
I am a practicing Buddhist but I volunteer at the Methodist church where I was baptized;
I am a member of the Boy Scouts of America where I was awarded as an Eagle Scout, the youth Religious Emblem, and the William T. Hornaday Badge for excellence in conservation;
I an avid supporter of the NFL, MLB and NHL;
I am a democrat.

If all of the above makes me "evil", so be it.
I can live with my "evilness".

I believe government has no right intruding on the choices of women;

Even if a woman chooses to kill someone?

Doh!

Fixing that now. Thanks for pointing it out.

No. None at all.

Bake

If they want to spew that shit, they're electioneering and should lose their tax-exempt status. Period.

Because he wouldn't be a republican. And that would make him a Democrat by default. I guess we could argue whether he'd be Green or not. But I would bet your pastor also calls Greens evil.


Your pastor should be boycotted. Too bad you haven't had the opportunity to experience the Stanford Memorial church.

For a taste, get out your audio browser, and tune to this on Sunday mornings, I think you'll wish you lived in an educated area-

http://kzsulive.stanford.edu/audio/kzsu-2-56.m3u

It isn't my pastor - I'm not even a Christian. The quote was from one of my wife's aunts and was agreed upon by fundies at the table.

The pastor crossed a line if he said Democrats are evil. However, he/she still has the law on their side if they just say "stem cell research is evil", "abortion is evil" or "affirmative action is evil", etc.

Second, you ought to give your in-laws some credit. Sort of. They are not duped, or cowed by their pastor. Their pastor is saying something they already agree with. Pastors can be popular and influential, they can also be fired. My fundie cousin has been fired from two churches for preaching things that the congregation didn't like theologically.

My home church, although it is more liberal, being Presbyterian, had a Pastor who wanted to break away from the national denomination over the issue of gays. There were other issues too. The local church's ruling body is the Session, which is democratically elected (and actually the national ruling body, the General Assembly, is democratically elected). So at one meeting, the Session was questioning this Pastor about some of his travel expenses and he said something like "If you are gonna question my integrity, then I should just resign." Whereupon my former youth leader quickly said "I move we accept his resignation" got a second and voted the pastor out.

Here's a copy of a Letter to the Editor that he's pushing on every newspaper that will listen to him.



He's really outraged at the manipulation of some uninformed preachers by the GOP.

Though didn't Clinton appoint a justice or two? That makes his statement about 1953 wrong.

edit: reading comprehension problems, it said Chief Justice

It has always been this way, maybe a little worse now because Obamas black, but its insane how dependent these people are on what their pastor says, its dangerous and should be stopped. A church should not be able to be tax exempt and preach on political matters.

should be posted in every classroom in the country do not know them. You know, like the one about not bearing false witness? Even if they did they don't apply to Christians anyway, just the commandment Jesus gave: "Love your neighbor as yourself." So, how loved does that 19 year old girl feel now?

Hypocrites who live in whited sepulchres shouldn't throw stones...

Are they allowed to express their opinion on issues as along as they don't refer to politcians or parties? For instance, the issue of life vs death is relevant to a person's faith, but naming candidates or parties would not be appropriate.

Which is what my wife's aunt said her pastor did by claiming that Democrats are evil from the pulpit.

When will those goddamn people understand? Like you said, it's not about politics, it's about someone dying! These ignorant assholes just piss me off. :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

To own limos for their preachers, private aircraft in some cases, travel at the congregations' expense etc.

The Church people never shut up about politics. The Catholic Church is quite adament about agreeing with the Bush administration. Although politicians who are Pro-Choice are threatened with excommunication, those who are for the war are okay - far worse to kill a zygote that is only 48 hours old by using the morning after pill than to wipe out one million people in a war for oil.

Tax the churches and then tax them again. Unless they quit mouthing off about the evils of so many things that there simply is no Biblical proof of - at least not in the New Testament (Which is the literature that "chirstians" are supposed to be concerned about.) The "Christians" will traipse all the way back to the Old Testament to find references to Sodom and Gomorrah - but somehow miss the impact of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus' words of "Blessed are the Peace Makers..." and "Little children, love one another" carry no weight with most of these folks. But war and hating gays and more war and more hating gays never ends with them.

Tax Em!

which was Baptist and two years ago she said it drastically changed. They began to pound political stuff in them and degrading Dems and others. She is a sweet and caring woman who is tough as nails and helps the poor on her spare time. As a long time Baptist, she left the Church and it was a painful experience for her but I spoke to her three nights ago by phone and she laughed saying "I'm a Lutheran now!" because she found a really nice Church that doesn't do hate speech. The Religious Right infiltrated the Churches I think about four years ago to prepare for this election and for their cause.

The Lutherans had their congregation members providing it - all one had to do to qualify was say you were considering becoming a Lutheran. (The agency I worked for charged anywhere from $ 21/an hour up to $ 33/an hour for caretakeers, companions, LVN"s or nurses - not affordable even to the solid middle class if you need full time coverage.)

when the Democrats under Obama come into power and life becomes soooo much better and so much more human and positive--proving what liars and bigots these self-serving "pastors" are.

On another thread, a video of Hillary Clinton's reaction to the debate, Brian Williams asked if there was a danger in the Democrats having the executive and both legislative houses of Congress. Someone commented that that was an odd thing for Williams to say. However, actually it isn't. What happens to all these people who have been demonizing the Democrats, including the mainstream media, if the Democrats take over and turn the country around. What a lot of egg on all those pompous, hate-spewing, lying faces!

After Clinton turned the first Bush debacle around most of these nutjobs figured that anyone could run the country so they went with the village idiot because "he's a man of God". Besides, these people would vote for the repub if he was eating their first born child in front of them. The church has that much hold over them.