Anybody else fed up with credit score tyranny?

I'm old enough to remember life without them. Somehow, life went on. :eyes:

BTW, mine is not the best but they are very useful in hiring.

:)

How blessed.

using them when hiring.

You lose your job. You use up your unemployment benefits, which was only half your previous salary anyway, and you play Debtor's Roulet, choosing different bills to pay each month. You still don't have a job. You do what you can to keep the lights, heat, and water going and a bit of food. Bills pile up.

Finally you get a job offer!

Which is then rescinded because of your poor credit rating.

Cycle of poverty, anyone?

Credit score as a reason for employment discrimination needs to be outlawed.

Rp

And lately, I have just been made unhirable. Not for any fault of my own, but my clients aren't paying me, so I can't pay my bills. I could sue my clients, still get nothing and lose them forever, or I can wait patiently and keep myself in their thoughts, hoping for a payout and future business, which is what I'm doing. In the meantime, today I lost my car, and my credit is super-low now, so if I do have to quit being a small business owner and get a job, now I'll be unemployable for my poor credit score. So much for the politicians helping small business owners.

then the pricks ran my credit, and denied me the job. It is discriminatory, and is no basis for your character. These practices should be outlawed, and people should have full and free access to these reports at any time. Not just when you've received a denial letter. The Free Credit Report.com thing is horseshit too. I have a right to that information and my privacy.

After all if they really want to help the middle class in the midst of a credit crisis, why not give them safeguards that prevent discrimination against them based on the inevitable poor credit and debt collections that will ensue.

Personally I think credit should not be a factor in employment but also in housing (many people have bad credit but still pay their rent and utilities but because of poor credit they are denied places to live) and utilities.

Push an anti-discrimination clause into this bill and give it enforcement mechanisms and then we're starting to talk about protecting the middle class.

Rp

To the honorable Gwen Moore,

I know right now there are negotiations and planning discussions in the House to push forth another economic stimulus plan this January. This time the money would be aimed at Main Street rather than Wall Street and would include a lot of money that would go to shore up state budgets that are desperately underfunded as well as towards creating more infrastructure jobs that can help shore up the hard working middle class who are likely to see more and more of their jobs disappear during this economic turmoil.

I'd like to offer up another measure for you to discuss with your colleagues that can do an additional amount of good in protecting those same middle class citizens.

Credit Score Discrimination Protection.

For far too long employers as well as home renters and utilities providers have used credit scores to discriminate against people who have debt and are struggling to get out. It has helped to create an enduring cycle of poverty.

Person has bills they can't pay, tries to get job to pay bills, is denied job due to debt, more debt is created.....

The same rings true for landlords that use this as a tool to prevent renters from having a place to live. While usually when you are trying to acquire what would count as another bill would be grounds for a credit check, there are certain times where this check should be waived.

Landlords have tools available to check to see if someone has been evicted, had judgments against them from previous landlords or had any questionable criminal situations to be worried about. They also have space on their applications for job information as well as previous rental landlord references. There is plenty of information to let you know whether or not someone is going to be a good renter or not.

Often landlords see a bad credit score and deny someone without giving them the benefit of the doubt. In this current economic climate people are losing their homes at record rates, they are getting behind in many of their bills and poor credit scores and debt collections on their credit score are inevitable.

By putting in place laws that prevent discrimination by employers, landlords and utilities (who also often employ such discrimination tactics), you're providing what is sure to be hundreds of millions of Americans a safe buffer where they can comfortably find a place to work, a place to live and have such necessities as electricity and heat in the winter available to them.

This will provide them with protection that will allow these people the opportunity to get back to work and attempt to pay off that accruing debt and in turn could lower the amount of outright bankruptcies that may have to be filed when these people are out of options.

In addition to such rules we need to make sure there is an enforcement mechanism in place. Many landlords or employers may just continue this practice feeling nobody will enforce it.

Many local police officers will do nothing about this and since these people have very little money as it is, it may be incredibly difficult to obtain legal representation to present such a case.

We need to have options for these people to file a complaint and for swift action in terms of large monetary penalties and fines to prevent such discrimination.

Discrimination against the poor and the soon to be just as devastated middle class is just as bad as discrimination against the rights of people who are of a different color, gender or sexual orientation. In fact it might even be a greater threat to our society since such a large part of our populace, from all cultural backgrounds, are already considered at poverty level and another huge part of our population teeters on the brink as their homes and jobs are on the line during this economic freefall.

We should do everything in our power to protect those people. To provide a net so they don't hit the bottom so hard and a ladder so they can climb back up.

This provision is that net and ladder.

Thank you for your time. Please let me know how you feel about this issue.

Sincerely,
MessiahRp

If it comes up before the House and Senate, I'm curious to see who the lobbyists would be for getting such a bill squashed. It would be interesting to see who really wants to keep the middle and lower class society struggling, and what their motives are.

See if they have healthy eating habits. If you find anything that isn't made of oats or flax seed you should deny them the job. They would be less likely to take a sick day if they were healthy, and running a business is all about profit after all right?

We access to everything personal about our clients. Income tax records? yes. medical records? Yes. Psychiatric records? Yes. Do I know when my clients are cheating on their spouses? Sometimes. Access to large sums of our clients money (sometimes all the money they will have for the rest of their lives)? Yes.

All of this has to stay right here. If my staff screws up, is gossipy or a thief it is my responsibility. So do I do a background check on everyone in my office? Hell yes. Someone with a low credit score means many things and it all goes into the picture when hiring. What would you think of someone with poor credit who has not had health problems or family problems? Maybe they are not that good with money, spends on stupid stuff, have a drug problem, a gambling problem, a clothes problem. I can't have a thief in the office.

It's fascist and I don't know what line of work you're in, but even if money is being handled, it scares me to think that a person who has poor spending habits (not addictions but just impulsive buyers) could be kept from earning a living! Also, remember that people can change. What are people who have been to prison supposed to do about work? How are they supposed to be rehabilitated when no one is willing to hire them? Will they be encouraged to stay on the straight and narrow? What about people who have been hospitalized for mental illness? So they are supposed to starve? They aren't allowed to work, have dignity, which helps their mental health?!

If you start life with at least a small trust fund and some connections, America is the promised land. For the other 95% of us - make one mistake or have one misfortune and it's Indentured Servitude for the rest of your life. And your childrens childrens children will carry your shame you miserable fucking peasant.

NOW GET BACK TO WORK PROLE!

and you are out of commission for a few years what would your credit score be than?

What if you have mental illness issues?

This is discrimination it is class warfare and should be seen at treated as an assault on the people especially the poor.

Everyday this corporate piggishness sucks worse and worse.

and our rights.

Someone with bad credit is often just someone who ran into a financial emergency without the benefit of a safety net of a caring family to temporarily bail them out.

It is a tool. A useful tool in my view. Not the only thing I look at but one of the things I look at.

It is easy for people to potshot my hiring decisions, but it isn't your ass on the line, is it?

If not, you're just power tripping. I appreciate that you have responsibilities towards your clients, but 'necessity' is often a convenient justification. Do you have Lawyer's Professional Liability Insurance, or the equivalent if you're not an attorney? If so, then I'd say you have a degree of flexibility, and a degree of responsibility to consider your employees' interests as well as your own. Perhaps, in the interests of equity, you should start encouraging your clients to run background checks on you.

Besides, what you learn from a background check is only as good as your ability to interpret it. I had no credit score until last year (and I'm in my 30s) simply because I had moved to this country in 90s but never applied for credit, instead living out of my checking account.

I am insured. I also have a deductible that I rather not pay. Beside the point is not to be incompetent and untrustworthy up to the point where you can be sued. The point is to keep things private that should be private and not to get my clients money stolen period. Not to reimburse them after litigation after one of my employees steals all their money.

Bad credit happens for many reasons. One of those reasons is you have a habit of being lent money and not paying it back. I want to know if a potential employee has a habit of that. If all their outstanding balances are medical providers and not Macy's, maybe that is an insight into their good character. And the opposite is true also.

Forgive my cynicism, but you seem to think that your paying them puts you in a superior position, when they are giving you 2 weeks of credit in exchange for their time and effort. Now, I'm sure your take your responsibilities to your staff as seriously as you your responsibilities to your clients, but I think your employees are equally entitled to assess your credit history. I've had a situation before where I went to work on a normal day, at a company I had worked for several years, only for all the staff to be told at lunchtime to empty their desks and go home - turned out the boss hadn't paid his rent on the office for almost a year, had run the business into the ground, and the 9 of us who were working there were suddenly out of a job with no severance package or legal recourse, because he'd declared bankruptcy.

Basically I object to your contention that being a hirer gives you the right to investigate your employee's private financial affairs and make decisions based on potential motivation, without any quid pro quo on your part to reassure them about your financial probity.

Also I know a couple people who were robbed of years of social security build up and tax returns (because their company wasn't paying it).

Just because people own a business doesn't mean that they can be trusted.

A person with a poor credit score is not a thief; someone with a criminal record is. If you're paranoid, carry insurance; your employee's financial lives are not your business, regardless of your position (I assume from your description that you're an attorney). You need to get some counselling; you have serious mixups between professionalism and power worship.

Or their pet ran up high vet bills, or maybe their spouse abused their credit, or maybe, maybe, maybe. Sorry, but judging somebody's trustworthiness based on their credit score is utter and absolute bullshit, in fact it's almost downright fascist.

Frankly, I don't know what business you're in, but if I were to be a client of yours and found out the amount of checking you do into your clients' personal life, I'd drop you like a hot potato and sue you for invasion of privacy on top of that. Why the fuck are you accessing the psychiatric and medical records of somebody who is paying you good money?

We got along fine before this credit score madness, we would do even better without it.

And my bad credit is due to people like YOU, business to business clients, not paying their bills, not due to any fault of mine. But you would brand me a possible thief, or a gambler? Fuck you and the horse you stole to ride in on! :P

:sarcasm: (well, somewhat)

Look I'm not for giving up a little freedom to gain a little security, and I'm CERTAINLY dead against giving up one atom of freedom so that companies can operate more efficiently.

That's what this is about: freedom.

The freedom to reinvent yourself, and the right to privacy.

Companies managed to hire people before they had credit reports, and they can do so again. I'm sure that IQ tests would be useful too but I'm dead against those as well.

my credit score is in the dumpster and i'm an excellent employee. i don't get how it is useful in hiring.

:shrug:

If even the best talent in the country starts having credit problems (and it's logical to assume many are), then employers are going to have to learn to depend on other metrics. I'm all for criminal background checks to make sure you're not hiring someone with outstanding warrants, but pre-employment credit checks are only necessary in a very small percentage of jobs. I think this practice is often abused, and I'd like to see it stopped. If I found out any of my vendors were engaging in overzealous background checks, they would find themselves without a client, and in rather short order.

I'd like to see legislation that cuts down on abuses and invasions of privacy, as well as legislation that eliminates the zombie debt industry. We had a run-in with that on some furniture we bought when we were first married. The furniture company went bankrupt the same month we paid everything off, and their debts were picked up by another company. Unfortunately, the data the furniture company sent was taken from a YEAR-OLD snapshot of the database. In other words, the new company thought we owed the full twelve months of payments, plus interest, plus late fees. We went back and forth with them numerous times, faxing canceled checks, sending certified letters, and so forth. We thought we had it all sorted out, but then they sold the SAME DATA to another company, so we had to start all over again. This kind of thing can really mess with a person's credit score.

Fortunately for us, it was more than ten years ago, so it's not a big deal. We never buy things through store credit systems like that anymore, because you don't want just any old fly-by-night company to get hold of your credit information or have the power to influence your score. Nowadays, we buy everything on Amex and just pay it off at the end of the month.

My car insurance went up because they pulled my credit report. Why should a payment to them be tied to anything based on credit? I hae never missed a payment to them in 33 years.

If I were not to pay them, they would just cancel my account.

I will be doing some car insurance shopping. And I will (finally) be correcting the inaccuracies on my credit report.

n/t

had credit scores above 700. None of the poor people I know and live around are crooked enough to do that.

Progressive insurance got caught raising the rates on customers based on credit scores and had to refund it because it was not based on actuarial tables. Companies do this because they can get away with it.

People like you believe this because you think corporations are infallible.

Let's pull the credit reports of McCain and Obama. Whomever has the highest score wins the election.

The lower the score, the more likely to screw up the country.

Those who have the accidents or claims should pay more. And those who don't have them should pay LESS. Period. The accident record itself is quite sufficient to predict risk. Credit has no place in it. That's again, just an excuse to charge more and to harass people who are already having a tough time. It needs to stop.

For instance, I've been driving since 1966 and never had an accident. Do I pay less? Nope. (I should be exempted from paying car insurance, for pete's sake.) Isn't my history a better predictor of future risk than how I pay bills? Come on, that's looney.

What really amazes me is that this acceptance of it, and justification of it, is such a commonplace attitude among people.

Period.

...just not the current system of scores. Anyone that used credit has had a credit rating since at least the sixties. Instead of a score, merchants would use local credit agencies to check your credit. The advent of credit cards and mega banks made mega credit reporting agencies feasible. Merchants rely on these agencies to provide them with information on an applicant's credit so they can judge whether to extend them credit or not. It is a necessary evil.

1. With getting a job
2. Car insurance
3. Renting a house or an apartment.

...it gives companies, prospective landlords, or insurance agencies an inside look at your past responsibilities and how you handled them. When you apply for credit, insurance or home rental, these people/companies use credit scores to judge your worthiness. As a landlord of many years, I check the credit of every prospective applicant, and cull them accordingly.

Credit scores can be hurt by so many different things that may not have anything to do with the ability to pay rent or insurance premiums. Medical bills are the first to come to mind. And even though someone may have finally paid off that awful hospital bill 2 years ago, it stays for at least another 5 on the credit report - and sometimes even longer.

And why raise someones insurance premium automatically when the past payment history for said insurance premium has been sterling for years and years?

...and easy! As far as prospective rental applicants, one of the biggest factors I use is rental history. If you have no rental history, a credit check is all you have left, other than personal references, which are skewed because no one is going to give you a reference that is not going to be good.

I would think about the only people without rental histories are kids moving out of their parents homes.

Many people who have rental history, but do not want you to know they have been evicted or left without paying, say they have no rental history. I have seen it thousands of times! Kids moving out of their parents' homes are a terrible risk, by my experience.
I rent (homes)to young couples who are newly married, occasionally. There is about a 50% chance they will not breach the contract.
The best risks are married couples in their late thirties and up. My worst tenant nightmare was renting to a young (early twenties) police officer. Totally trashed the house, and I mean thousands of dollars of damage!

No tenant is going to tell you they have been evicted, unless there were extenuating circumstances that they think they have a reasonable case for. (I had this happen, once.) It's a gamble everytime I lease a home. Even if you have stringent qualifying standards, you never know. Renting is almost non-profitable, anymore. With increasing property taxes and insurance rates taking up 25% of your yearly income on properties, if a tenant defaults on payment, you can wind up in the negative column pretty easy!

You're saying that paying my CCs on time is more important than paying my rent, right?

Right?

GFY.

But, to deny employment is wrong. How can someone dig themselves out of a hole if they cannot get the tools because they are in a hole?

I thought car insurance was required by law in most states? It is in Ohio, where I am. To deny car insurance because of bad credit is simply kicking people when they're already down. (I do not know what the law is in Ohio regarding credit checks/insurance purchase.)

and people who have fallen on hard times, often due to no fault of their own. I have poor credit - but I am extremely trustworthy and responsible. I pay all of my bills on time and in full. I ran into serious financial trouble a few years back while caring for two elderly and sick parents and then paying for one of their funerals, while battling a debilitating illness myself. I caught up on all of my late bills and have been current for over two years, but still have lousy credit. Guess you wouldn't rent to a deadbeat like me.

edited for grammar!

... of a landlord/owner, just as they insist on checking that of tenants. A tenant needs to know a landlord or owner has the financial resources to maintain property. They need to know the track record of landlords with regard to making repairs and honoring the privacy of tenants by being able to check with former tenants.

The above has been laughed off by many landlords that I've said this to. The recent bailout, the mortgage meltdown, has cast a new light on the whole situation.

Too many landlords are just petty tyrants who use their position to aggrandize themselves. Soon, a hard time may be had by all -- including those who wish to lord it over other people with regard to jobs or a roof over their heads.

Bring it on!

I don't want my bank to be hiring people who are over their heads in debt. It's a fact that people with personal financial problems are more likely to fall to the temptation to embezzle money than are people with sound finances.

A low credit score caused by a confluence of unfortunate circumstances should not by itself disqualify anyone for a job.

Bank employees handle or have access to huge sums of money. Most non-bank employees don't.

Credit scoring job applicants ought to be illegal in most cases. Corporate America, i.e. Big Brother, just wants to know every damn thing about you. For no good reason.

Bake

1960's, no. Unheard of.

Btw, I was first licensed as a real estate agent in 1974, and they weren't even used in buying a home then. Payment record on other loans, yes, which makes sense. But no score. And interpreted by a human being, not a machine.

I was a credit manager for a fortune 500 company back in the mid seventies. A credit check was required for every applicant, no exceptions. The only difference was that it was done on a more local level than a national one. Dunn & Bradstreet was used for a commercial credit rating, while organizations such as local retail merchants associations were used to check on individuals.

Retail merchants associations were for retail credit cards or check cashing. Homes loans, no, they verified their own applications themselves, not through some "mill" through a 3rd party. There were qualifying standards which included prior mortgages, or if none, then rent history. What counted most after income-qualifying by a pretty standard formula, was stability, meaning length of time at one address. Also lateness didn't count for much as long as payments were made. Late fees as such, were rare and not high at that. Fees to make payments were unheard of. And prepayment penalties were illegal. Up until the early 1970's there were usury limits on interest.

Odd minor things like lateness on utilities payments, etc., didn't enter into it. There was no expectation of perfection like there is now. I think it has completely gone overboard. It has become nothing more than an excuse to charge higher rates.

The fact that banks were local made a big difference, I agree. We should encourage more of them. It's pretty hard to inflate appraisals to a local banker who knows the area.

I think using credit scores for employment is preposterous. It's nothing more than an excuse to snoop and discriminate.

Yes, things were much better back in the seventies. I bought my first home in 1976. I had a 10% down payment, I qualified the 25% of net salary for mortgage, and had a stable employment history. That's about all you needed back then!

And, I agree with you on using these scores for employment standards. Honest, hard-working people have problems, too. Maybe we should run a credit check on the companies we apply to and tell them we will have to take a pass based on their credit score!

...and the survivor will be unaware of their former spouses spending.
I know a Lady that found out her Husband used up ALL their credit "Money" by betting the Horses...ruining their credit....and of course..SHE has to try to repair the damage.

Another Case: One of my close Woman Friends was a victim of Identity theft....The thieves RUINED her credit.
When she tried to get another job she was turned down repeatedly for Jobs that she was most qualified for...
..I feel so sorry for her....it's so damn unfair..

It sucked out loud, cost me about $3,000 to get my credit reports unscrewed.

My point is that it IS possible to undo the damage, but it takes some work.

We need another fannie and freddie since the last ones went casters up.

Real interest rates right now should be 5.25%. How many are?

I had a collection agency call me last month, to tell me that I owed $40 to our local health clinic.

Supposedly, I didn't pay 2 co-pays for office visits.......a year and a half ago!!!! :mad:

I always pay my co-pays. Unfortunately, I don't have proof that I paid these co-pays. I don't keep
organized records of office visits, that go back that far.

This is a scheme, as far as I'm concerned. They say I owe. I don't think I do. However, the collection
trollop was quick to tell me that if I didn't pay it, "Your credit rating will be ruined."

That infuriated me and I calmly said, "You can't threaten me with that, because we could care less about
our credit score. We pay cash for everything and we have a mortgage and we don't live and die by that
number. So, you're not going to blackmail us into paying money we don't owe, by threatening our credit
score--because we don't care."

And we don't!

He didn't know what to say! I'm sure that many people throw themselves into a tizzy and beg him not to
harm their credit.

A collection agency said he owed $80 to Hollywood Video. He wrote and asked which Hollywood Video and for what.

The only response was another threatening letter.

He wrote again saying that he'd been to the HVs he usually patronized, and they said he was current and owed them nothing. So would the collection agency please provide documentation, as requested in his previous letter.

Never heard from them again. Nothing new appeared on his credit record.

So in the future, I'll always turn it on them to make them prove it, the bullies.

Ask them to provide you with dated records of your visit. Then your bank should be able to provide you with a payment record for that date.

(Psst...BTW: My ex used to work for a major hospital system and he swears that every year, they would send out letters to all their patients saying they owed a $20 co-pay -- even though they didn't.)

Then I would have laughed, told them, "I'm just not going to pay it, so go right ahead and report it; knock yourselves out; have a good ol' time," then hung-up.

For that matter $40 is not worth their time to report it. So it'll just get written off.

money was usually borrowed locally which made it easier for the lender to deem credit worthiness. What I hate about it is that it is used by whoever for reasons that always appear to be wrapped up in an excuse to charge higher rates or prices. If you pay cash for everything you're punished because you have no credit! I've seen credit scores used that hurt people as in renting a place to live. You know people who lose jobs often see a fall in their credit scores because of how they may temporarily be forced to live before finding employment. Even years of excellent credit are disregarded. It's just part of the big data base in the sky.....AND, for 15 years I was a single woman, self-employed with a very high credit score. It didn't help me because, after all, I was single (no hubby in the background for backup, I guess), a woman, an obvious risk :sarcasm: and self-employed therefore, in a line a credit I secured to fix up a home which I bought outright, I HAD to be charged a higher interest rate. Again, credit scores are spun to be what the lender wants them to be. Yes, I am fed up.

edit: Maybe we ought to set up a system to tell us about the thieves that do the lending.

...when they're even known, that is. Right now in the stock market, that's exactly the problem - there's no disclosure of the banks or corporations liabilities. What a one-way con game this is!!!

I agree, there's always some excuse to charge more. Scores need some severe "guidelines" at the very least (I'd like to see numbers done away with altogether). For one thing, medical bills should not count at all - everybody knows they're unpayable. Also, as a post mentioned above, a spouse's problems shouldn't count... that's "guilt by association" isn't it?

People with bad credit scores have a tougher time getting jobs, getting insurance, getting an apartment. It seems odd that if you are trying to work your way out of a tough financial situation that the system would make it harder for you.

They have no interest in a rising tide to help "float all boats". In their BRUTAL world, it is sink or swim. This is true in 99.9% of everyone I have EVER know who identifies themselves as REPUBLICAN! The MORE difficult they make it for the poor, the happier they are.

My boyfriend's identity was stolen, so we have to pay a higher deposit on our apartment because of his bad credit (never mind that he has excellent rental history). After this mortgage bust and economic recession, I'm beginning to wonder if credit scores will become redundant.

I hate the people involved with them. (Yes, I said hate, and mean it.)

That is what I was charged for a routine CBC blood test, which I have several times a year to check my thyroid.

I went to a new hospital to have the test and was charged $700. I refused to pay it and it is now on my credit report.

How do I remedy this being on my credit report? I have repeatedly spoken to the insurance company and the hospital and the collector about this charge but I don't know how to fix it.

One, your state Attorney General's office, which probably has a Consumer Division of some kind. Ask them what you can do, or who else you can contact about it. There are boards which license insurers, which you could complain to, but the state AG could give you info on that. Another approach is the Federal Trade Commission. They oversee all business entities and also the credit reporting agencies.

Seriously, all the info is here:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre21.shtm

It's actually pretty rare for creditors to press such a dispute unless they have an open and shut case.

* Nobody knows what algorithms any of the scoring agencies use to arrive at the numbers they assign.
* It's almost impossible to find out what affects your score, since the algorithms are proprietary.
* If your score is negatively impacted, it's on you to do the sleuthing. None of the scoring agencies will assist you in any way. Phoning them will get you trapped in a circular maze of automated-attendant menus more often than not.
* If there's something in your credit history that's bringing your score down, whether it's your fault or not, it's going to cost you a great load of money to fix it. If it's not your fault, there's no recourse or restitution.
* "Free" credit reports aren't, no matter what the slick ads say. You're entitled to one per year anyway. But by the time you can obtain one, it's usually too late and you're stuck footing the bill to fix the mess.
* Even vigilance is of little help. By the time you notice money running out of your credit cards or bank account, damage has been done and it's going to take a load of effort, time, and probably more cash to put things right.

Currently, all the laws favor big corporations who can hold secrets over your head. Consumers? Meh, they're just a source of income. The more that can be strip-mined from them, the better. :sarcasm:

The credit card industry or credit scores (all the same industry) say: .." If you are a good little consumer.... we'll let you slave away at minimum wage and we'll charge you the highest interest rate we can get away with. Then , when we send your job to China, we'll deny you Bankruptcy and you'll still have to pay us back all the interest and late fees." See how wonderful that is? And of course, if you get sick and can't pay our gold-plated health care.. we'll send over 2 big burly Deputies (who you pay handsomely from your tax dollars) and they will throw you into the street and taser you. Ahhh.. I love the smell of Reaganomics in the morning... Don't forget.. "They hate us for our freedom."

<do I need to put a sarcasm thingy here?>

I couldn't agree with you more. IMO, this kind of thing is where the revolution needs to start... I mean the one with pitchforks and stuff.

I don't feel the slightest bit free anymore, and a lot of it has to do with credit scores.

I had about a 700 which took years to build. So I get laid off a couple months ago and now I have to go bankrupt. So I'm a deadbeat for life now? I will miss out on good jobs because I was let go in the biggest economic downturn in 80 years? FUCKIN SWEET!

i am showing how much 'crap i am willing to eat?' i think not. i think it is almost comical that you are upset with people with good credit scores...as if it somehow makes them below you...interesting...

sP

Sometimes you can't "live up to your obligations" for reasons beyond your control. Then what?

Who wants to be "obligated" to an economic system that capriciously throws people out on the curb like garbage anyways?

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for some people a clean credit score is more important than a clean criminial record (which i what i was always told to maintain by my parents)

I don't give a shit about credit scores anymore because I can't.

If pure random chance can destroy a person's credit rating, there's no ethical use for it.

If my wife and I lived in some civilized nation with a decent health care system our credit score would still be outstanding.

As it is I don't care anymore if the financial system collapses. If the vast majority of people end up with shitty credit scores as the result of collapsing markets, maybe we can rebuild the system in a manner that is just.

Fuck credit scores.

:grr:

A store sent us our bill a month late, which we paid immediately. It was for $50. But it cost us more in car insurance for years while we tried to get it straightened out because we had ONE payment in over 30 years that was 30 days late and wasn't even our fault.

Recently we moved. We sold the house, payed off the mortgage, and rented* while we built in another area. Credit score dropped because we didn't have a mortgage ... which meant we weren't as credit worthy, according to them. We had a mortgage for 18 years and paid on time every single month. We paid off several student loan and car loans without a single late or missed payment. We pay our credit cards off every month (and only actually use 2 of them). What's wrong with this picture? Sure, we have a good credit score, but not as good as it was when we had a mortgage! Then there are the credit cards ... one said that our oldest card wasn't old enough (about 20 years old) and the other said our newest card was too new (that one's about 4 years old). Go figure. :shrug:

It's pretty clear that they want you to be in debt up to a certain point and then it smacks you if you go past that point. No one really knows what the magic number is or how they arrive at it. But it's a piss poor way to determine how much someone should pay for car insurance, especially for drivers who have had no accidents, tickets, or claims in over 30 years of driving. It's just as bad an idea to use it for employment. I'm sorry, all you bosses out there, but giving someone a job is likely to help them to improve their credit score. It's a good way to calculate risk for someone applying for a loan or credit card, but they have taken it way too far by using it for everything else. When will we see the day when you have to have a great credit score in order to vote?

*Renting: Yeah, that's a way the utility companies get more out of you, too. Water company wanted an extra non-refundable $50 because we were renting. Car insurance also went up because we went from "homeowner" to "renter." To them, renting=less trustworthy, regardless of credit score. :banghead:

Thus I have a few points on my credit score, probably from debit card use. I've handled my finances responsibly (and been lucky to avoid any personal catastrophes), living within my means and saving. Yet I can't rent a flat in places because of a low score. My current place just checked to see if I had any black marks from running out - nada.

You didn't ante up by gambling your financial future with credit, so now you won't be allowed to participate in the financial system, haw haw!

Well, the same thing has happened to me...I finally started an emerging credit card backed by a deposit (on which i receive no interest) and of course what they did was set the credit limit to the exact amount of my deposit and refuse to raise it, so more than trivial spending puts me in a risk situation for hitting my limit, thus making the thing effectively useless (I had hoped to expand my technical/media business by buying some more equipment - fat chance). And of course in the meantime they change the due date every month in hopes that they'll get $35 off me for making the payment on the same day as the previous month. I'm not impressed.

... proved to have a higher score than me, employed without a break for 20+ years, a six-figure income, a mortgage I always pay on time and $0 credit card debt.

On the other hand ... the lender said the mortgage we were seeking would have been easier and cheaper had I been applying for it alone. Her credit score may have been through the roof, but I was obviously the better risk.

So FICO is not the be all and end all. It is just one piece of the puzzle.

He was still living at home and half the people calling the house were bill collectors looking for him. When he bought a car, they charged him 20 percent interest.

Last year, he decided to get married and buy a house -- he walked into the bank and they gave him a mortgage -- 30 year fixed at 6 percent -- in about five minutes.

I'm still scratching my head, as are his parents.

When irrationally exuberant credit dries up, people will once again HAVE to DEMAND that they get paid enough to LIVE on...

When unions got busted in a big way (Reagan), suddenly a WHOLE BUNCH of the American public was suddenly "credit-worthy" and our long journey into darkness started :(

For too many years now, people have been using plastic cards to try and stay "in the game"...and the costs of it all are eating them alive..

and frequently is, determined by a number assigned by an unsupervised, unregulated, frequently arbitrary or erroneous number, by a company with no accountability/liability, and very limited redress by the victim. An official judgment of character based on information that is involuntarily gathered and can be fraudulently assigned by anybody that wishes, again with no accountability.

Where, or even if, you can gain a residence, whether or not you will be considered for a job, whether or not you are free to travel. It is a nightmare construct that would be completely abhorrent in any free society.

More fascism for the sheep.

In what sane country would some corporation get to maintain detailed records about my life and then demand that I pony up $9.95 to see them?

And it's quite easy to maintain a good credit score by being responsible.

The only big objection I have to the system is that medical bills can affect it. Many people have medical bills that set them back but that shouldn't impact their credit score if they pay their credit cards, mortgage, etc responsibly.

nm

:puke:

Of course what they dont tell you is that you have to pay to access their site and if you dont your credit score goes down. How ironic.

we have a total breakdown of credibility, and a total meltdown of every kind of asset from it? Did it work? Did the risk assessment scoring system predict a damn thing? Did it serve any legitimate purpose whatsoever? Or is it just another elaborate self-deception?

I submit that the financial crisis we're in, proves that it's a fraud.

Numbers can be manipulated to say anything.

Yes, there needs to be a way of verifying a person's background, and qualifying for loans (and that used to happen too in the "old days" before credit scores - and gee, no meltdowns). But this scoring system we're using is BROKEN in every way.

And worse, (as said by others here too) there is no accountability about how it's done... gee, what does that remind me of lately?

The things are a scourge, nothing but another way for the system to discriminate against people using blanket generalities rather than ADDRESSING and FIXING the problems that hold so many down.

And I say that as the possessor of a credit score of over 700.

That's what we get with credit score tyranny.

Funny, I had a huge rant on this issue back in 2005. Over three years ago, and not a damned thing's changed.

time is coming. Why do you think Buscho has deployed teh Army on U.S. soil for the first time since the Civil war... The THUGS are scared shitless - as they should be.

...and yes, I think most uses of it should be gotten rid of.

Certainly it makes sense for buying a house, or for getting another credit card. But then, the current crash is due largely to those who give credit for buying houses, and for new credit cards, waiving all of that stuff anyway.

The real use of it now is as a profit center. For example, one credit card company finds out you've been late paying another credit company, and all of a sudden they up your interest rate. For another example, your insurance company notes your low credit score, and all of a sudden make you pay more. That is ridiculous and unconscionable. And our current so-called "laws" allow this sort of thing.

When, oh when will people rise up and realize that WE ARE BEING OPPRESSED??? Instead, the most fascist personalities do very well under this kind of enforced discipline -- and they despise those who can't keep up with all the paperwork, numbers, due dates spread out all over the days of the month, etc. -- and the populace at large is kept in debt. Which allows the moneymakers to make more money, including the banks to whom debt == money.

The core question is this: do we exist to serve the structures we have built up; or, did we build the structures to serve us?

Ask yourself that question. Then look around and see how it's set up. Clearly, the structures need to be demolished and rebuilt to different specs.

for paying my outrageous debts on time, every time. For doing jobs I'd rather not do so that I could keep paying, paying, paying.

I'm glad that the system at least acknowledges my diligence, although the only thing I can win from it is more debt. I like to think of borrowing as betting against the economy. At least in terms of what it would cost to buy, my college education went up three times in value since I got my degree in the mid-nineties. The payoff is another story.

But I think I deserve something for not screwing off my debts. If you don't differentiate between me and someone who's defaulted, why was I paying all that time? Am I just a sucker who should have robbed the system while there was still a system to rob?

Fuckers.

"Unfair Isaac" would be more like it. One obscure private company assigns a three-digit number to each and every one of us, and it's used to control access to every sphere of lefe much like SAT scores control access to college. Remember ChoicePoint and the Florida voter roll purge? I'll take "Shadowy Companies That Wield Enormous Influence Over Our Lives" for $800, please, Alex...

A simplistic human construct with very little effective meaning to anything. In one hundred years, if we reach type 1 it will be gone.

Haven't used a credit card in years - loans are debt and debt has always equated to slavery for me. I'm not letting these greedy credit card companies dictate my life with their 'credit score' crap. What a crock of bull.

Tyranny is not a problem when there is only a small amount of power.

is basing auto insurance rates on credit scores.

That's one of the heights of irrationality that Republican policies have brought us.

Anyone care to argue for or defend that practice?

I have been a client of USAA for 33 years. I have NEVER had a car accident and have NEVER filed a claim against my insurance.

A hospital staff made a mistake and filed a $700 claim for a blood test (in itself a ridiculous charge) against my medical insurance, using the wrong social security number. I wasn't told that the claim was rejected until after the one year window for filing. The charge reverted to me. I have called everyone until I am blue in the face to refute this charge of $700. It ended up on my credit report. I had excellent credit in the past and it is not now.

Because of this mistake, my USAA car insurance went up. If capitalism = competition, then I should be able to find a cheaper car insurance company. So who wins?

How can that be right? Why should anyone be forced to borrow money they don't need and then subjected to the games the credit industry puts you through?