What would happen if we all just rejected the healthcare system en masse?

If every person (without a serious illness, because of course some people could die in the short-term without healthcare) who's tired of stories like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4275949

just said NO MORE, with one voice? Cancel all of our healthcare policies and walk away.

Would doctors suddenly be forced to either find a way to work with patients financially, or risk losing a dramatic portion of their business? Would they still turn away people without insurance if almost *everyone* was without insurance? Would they even have a choice, if they wanted to maintain financial stability? Imagine--physicians agreeing to payment plans! Even, dare I dream, for the people who need payment plans the MOST--poor people?

Would the government finally DO something about this ridiculous mess when every HMO and insurance company is screaming in panic, the doctors are screaming in panic, and the American people are standing firm and saying NO! We will not waste our money in this greedy, useless industry ANY MORE. Universal healthcare or to hell with the whole system.

I know that enormous boycotts like this don't work very often, but the uncertainty of the times very well might HELP us in that respect. People are more likely to pay attention. People are more likely to accept it, and get involved.

It's just a pipe-dream, but man...I would love to see the insurance companies come begging, hat in hand, to do business on OUR terms for once. I wonder if the government would "bail out" the insurance companies by agreeing to single-payer universal healthcare for all Americans?

*sigh*

would cancel theirs?

canceling my plan and joining a boycott would result in good healthcare for ALL Americans--not just me--then yes. I would.

The problem is getting enough people to agree to do so. Everybody is suspicious of everyone else, and nobody trusts anyone else to go along with the plan.

That's why I said it's a pipe-dream. But still...it's a nice dream.

Everyone is out for themselves whether they're republicans or democrats and they'll screw anybody over for their own benefit. Just like the time ten of us planned a walk-out in order to get holiday pay for the ten of us who were the only hourly employees not on salary like the owner and the office staff. Face to face all ten made an agreement not to come into work the next week beginning on Monday and out of those ten only three, myself and two crew chiefs stayed home while the other seven came in, kissed ass, called us three trouble makers and if the boss would fire us then maybe some of our pay could help pay for some holidays. No one was fired but there were a few ass kickings the next week.

we can change plans if we choose.

to be an illusion in too many cases, insurance companies canceling policies on technicalities or refusing to pay for care at the last minute, resulting in too many good people who thought they had great coverage being bankrupted by serious illness.

Our system is broken beyond repair. Nowhere is this more evident than in the number of bankruptcies among people with "good" employer based insurance plans.

Get educated.

of thousands of employees without the problems you describe. On that plan, which we've personally had for more than 20 years, I don't need to "get educated." And neither do I need to get educated about the problems others have had with insurance; I'm well aware of the fact that we have a broken system. Your condescension is striking.

The fact that I'm saying our personal plan is good doesn't mean that I'm not in favor of either Obama's plan or of single-payer insurance. I think everyone should have insurance as good as mine, or as good as Federal employees have, and I'm very aware that most people don't. So I strongly support universal health care.

But I think the idea of Americans -- in all health conditions -- simultaneously canceling their health plans makes no sense.

When did I ever claim to know anything about you except that you occasionally make accusatory posts?

What I said about "good" insurance stands. Too many people are finding out too late that insurance plans are in business to make money, not take care of them.

The problems with insurance got worse when Unions fell out of favor and employees were left with whatever their employer wanted to give them for health care. If you ask me, which you haven't, Unions need to re-emerge. As to the idea of the OP if we could all do it together I think it would work, but that is a big if.

Who cares. Ain't gonna happen.

to participate. It would be a horrible thing to expect people to suffer and potentially die for the sake of others--particularly strangers.

If republicans continue to somehow block a fair health care plan for every American, perhaps we should take the matter into our own hands.

I wonder why we approach the healthcare issue on only, it seems,on how to get premiums to an affordable rate. As I see it,the rates are outlandish for two reasons: 1)insurance companies greed for high profit 2)sky high medical costs. Why do we 'allow' for either one? We've all had medical billing that is over the top.

I for one am tired of hearing about malpractice insurance as being a huge expense, maybe it is, but I have three doctors in my family and none are lacking for anything. My husband is a home builder and cabinet maker and no one gives a rat's _____ about high energy costs, commodity prices (copper, for instance)and lumber. Although we've recently seen easing in copper and wood, we have no one out there bolstering our business as the insurance companies do for the medical field. Am I wrong?

I no longer have insurance. Mine went sky high and that was with a high deductible of $10,000. I was single at the time and hadn't used the insurance and healthy. Still am, thank God....but

Really, think about that.

NOW.. if we actually had single-payer universal health care, just how much "malpractice" would there be?

Think about that one.

MOST people sue because it's the only way to get the mistakes rectified. Otherwise, they're out of luck.

If you could just go to another doctor or another hospital and have the mistakes corrected, would you sue? You see, it's not very likely.... we're PUSHED to sue because of the damned system, then we get blamed for it!

We'll get decent health care like the rest of the "developed" nations when we DEMAND IT!

I avoid all contact with the medical system. Only an acute crisis would change that. I am lucky to be healthy enough to get away with it, so far.

So anyway, I'm already there, and there are some 40-some million Americans like me.

It is probably true that the "Medical Insurance" scam would be bankrupted if it had only sick customers, but I don't know if that is a practical strategy to force change or not.

simply remove Senators and Congressmen from office if they don't get it done.

Give it, say, two years (?) to build as large a citizens' network as possible in every state, and basically lay it out—"If we do not have a national single-payer health care plan by the end of such-and-such Congressional session, then you're gone." Sure it would take time and effort to build a movement with some clout, but since we keep going without healthcare year after year, what's to lose? Don't allow other issues to creep into it; maintain focus on healthcare only. I think it would have to be nationwide, simultaneously, because if you focus on one or two legislators at a time, they can always say "I fought for it but opposition to it was too strong for me to override."

The only reason our government doesn't look out for us is because we put up with it. oktoberain is right about acting en masse—Remember on the movie "Gandhi" when Gandhi tells the British governor of India, "100,000 Englishmen simply cannot control 350 million Indians if those Indians refuse to cooperate"? There are 535 members of Congress; there are 300 million of us.

There are already a scattering of people in Congress who favor a national single-payer healthcare system, and a growing number of doctors as well. That's a good jumping-off point—doctors organizations, nurses' organizations, as well as groups like this http://voicefortheuninsured.org/ and this http://covertheuninsured.org/

Thoughts?

Congress never does anything for the people unless forced to by self-interest. So you have to get political and you have to get in their face.

"If we do not have a national single-payer health care plan by the end of such-and-such Congressional session, then you're gone."

See, *I* think that's a brilliant thing to say--and to demand. However, it would be extraordinarily difficult to get people to stop voting for beloved Dem politicians based on that one issue. We are very good at eating our own when this happens, and (god I hate to use this cliche, but) we tend to throw each other under the bus when demands like this are proposed. There's an entire contingent of our own party/ideology that will scream, "One-issue voter! Ideological purity!" the moment that we start to gain an ideological foothold on issues like this. It's frustrating to me. There's nothing wrong with being a one-issue voter when that *one issue* literally affects the life and health of every American citizen.

imagine what that could do in terms of switching on the light for the electorate? "Wow, it actually worked. Let's try it with an aggressive Marshall plan for clean enery now!"

private insurance.

the insurance they currently have.

Golly what a tough decision !

Let me see -- $500 per month when unemployed to keep up COBRA coverage, or wander down to the local free clinic? Hmmmm, how shall I decide?

WE WANT UNIVERSAL SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE DESPERATELY and our legislators want those campaign contributions from the insurance, hospital and pharmaceutical industries desperately. That's the impasse.

And members of Congress have great insurance compared to the rest of us.

even when I myself was covered. And I'm sure millions of people with insurance have thought about what should happen if they or their spouses lost that coverage. And have seen it happen to friends of theirs.

Somehow they manage to empathize with those who need to see a doctor but can't afford to.

And LOTS MORE PEOPLE NOW know people who have lost their insurance or had the co-pays increased or had to wait for several weeks to see a doctor even on their plan.

And those stubborn people who find it tough to empathize will get their wake up call when they lose their jobs and need to pay COBRA or have their company owners decide to let them sink or swim with the $2500 individual credit they'll get from McLame to try and buy insurance on the privatized market.

I and many others would give up our private insurance in a second if we were given universal health care.

If we knew we wouldn't have to pay huge COBRA expenses if we lost our jobs, we would be delighted.

Corporate lobbyists for the hospital, pharmaceutical and insurance industries contribute millions to our legislators who need tons of money to get reelected, to help convince those legislators that
-- the people really do "want their own doctors" more than they want to be free of the prospect of going bankrupt if they have an accident.
-- the people of Canada and England have to wait too long for their operations and Americans would rather face the prospect of going into debt to pay huge medical bills than to have to wait an extra few weeks for elective surgery. (Don't tell them that urgent operations usually proceed rapidly. Don't tell them that it often takes a few weeks just to get a doctor's appointment on many HMO plans.)

It is mostly people who don't know anyone who has experienced the sense of security and freedom it gives you to have national health insurance. Once you've had that feeling and thought about others not having to worry about finances to get medical treatment in many other industrialized countries, you want that feeling here in the USA too.

(as well as the "al franken" decade that followed)

most americans are in it for themselves.

and treated people for "tips" only during that period...(to pay for staff and the cost of the office).

but it isn't going to happen, regardless.

the insurance industry would be happy to see us go, your first clue might be that it's closing in on 50 million people w.out health insurance and instead of the industry trying to market to those people they say "see ya"

doctors and dentists are delighted to lose a large proportion of their business, i remember when being a doctor or a dentist was a full time job with jokes about the golf course on wednesday, now call any doctor and dentist and learn that they all have three day weekends (either friday or monday as well as weekends off) and short hours the rest of the time

doctors and dentists are no longer making money seeing insured patients, they are making most of the bucks doing cosmetic cash on the barrelhead work -- hence, when i had to see my dermatology for an insured issue -- i was hustled out of the office in under 5 minutes w.out any real discussion of my issue -- and i learned why when i got the note from my insurance co. that she was reimbursed all of $38 for my visit -- then the next lady comes in and gets a botox treatment and for that same ten minutes of work the office bills $480

you just don't get it, do you?

we already HAVE a massive "boycott" of the insurance/health care system -- we have around 45 million people who can't get health care, i was myself uninsured for 15 years, it helped fuck all

they don't want our business, they want to sell big money plans to employers and then when you try to collect on your plan, they find ways to avoid paying or even try to pressure employers to find a way to fire the seriously ill employee (my husband's employer has rec'd a lot of pressure over the years to get rid of an employee w. brain cancer, the gift which keeps on giving, since it requires tens of thousands in treatment ea. year but it don't kill the guy, but it's illegal to do this plus the guy could never be hired in another job so what is the decent thing to do -- alas insurance cos. aren't decent)

sorry for the rant but the idea you propose is what we have in practice -- MILLIONS outside of the system and all it means is more free time for health care givers so they can concentrate on where the REAL money is -- cash on the barrelhead cosmetic and prolonging youth procedures that only the well to do can afford

ever wondered why even your ob/gyn is offering cosmetic services? the real money isn't that $25 co-pay you give him, it's the $500 botox the lady is getting in the examination room next door, hell, they even have a gag now where they sell you a tummy tuck as a follow up to having a baby

if you don't know what the problem is, how do you figure out the solution? doctors don't want more work, more patients, they want more QUALITY (as in high paying, highly motivated not unpleasantly sick and disgusting patients = cosmetic ) patients

The people without insurance are people who can't PAY. Take away the people who CAN pay, and it becomes a whole 'nother ballgame, so to speak. Think of it like this: if poor people boycott a resort (like Disney World, for example,) the resort ignores it. If middle-class people with *money* boycott a resort, the management perks up and takes notice pretty darned fast.

And I don't think that people would die, or that families would be "ruined." I think the government would fall all over itself to assuage the voters. I think they'd try appeasing us ("We'll fix it soon...but please, please start paying for healthcare again now, okay?") then scaring us ("The economy will suffer Dire Consequences if you don't give your money to the HMO's again!") and finally threatening us ("We will not stand idly by while people make a decision they'll regret in the heat of the moment. We will not fall to Socialism, WHATEVER it takes." *cue ominous music*.) But in the end, the government will capitulate, as it must.

Of course, it's never going to happen. We don't trust each other enough. I hope that maybe an Obama administration can help to restore that trust again. We shall see.

primary concern for most people is preventing the worst case scenario from happening to them. In other words, they won't trust everyone else to drop their insurance coverage and won't want to be the only one without it.

The game that fits this scenario is Prisoner's Dilemma. It's very similar to what happens when 2 suspects are interrogated. One of them always squeals because they don't trust the other one to keep quiet. Sure the squealer usually gets punished, but not as badly as the other guy, who gets charged with the biggest crime.

Maybe even the jet.


mark

Drives a vehicle older than mine.
Most physicians do NOT live the lifestyle that most attribute to them. Some do, but most do not. Especially the ones serving in rural areas.