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Article: 'Stalin's army of rapists: The brutal war crime that Russia and Germany tried to ignore'

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 12:00 PM
Original message
Article: 'Stalin's army of rapists: The brutal war crime that Russia and Germany tried to ignore'


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1080493/Stalins-army-rapists-The-brutal-war-crime-Russia-Germany-tried-ignore.html

By Andrew Roberts
Last updated at 11:55 PM on 24th October 2008

Relations between Russia and Germany have not been good since Vladimir Putin's nationalist sabre-rattling this summer, but they are about to get a whole lot worse.

A new film about to be released in Germany will force both countries to re-examine part of their recent history that each would much prefer to forget. Yet it is right that the ghastly truth should finally be acknowledged...

...

Marta was one of two million German women who were raped by soldiers of the Red Army - in her case, as in so many others, several times over.

It was a feature of Russia's 'liberation' and occupation of eastern Germany at the end of World War II that is familiar enough to historians, but which neither country cares to acknowledge took place on anything like the scale it did.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Actually, this subject has been delt with a great deal in the West. Even the Russians admit it...
Edited on Sat Oct-25-08 12:08 PM by MookieWilson
and feel no remorse.

Zhukov said his troops were entitled to their fun.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. It wasn't "fun." It was bitter and deliberate revenge.
There are good reasons the Germans were terrified of falling into Russian hands. And why no one in the world shed a tear for them.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. I know it wasn't "fun." BIG mistake for the Germans to pursue the Battle of the Buldge. nt
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I know that we read about in my history classes.
Even when I did a semester of study in Russia, the profs told us of the war crimes the Russian troops committed. It's not like they don't admit it.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. I wonder if this will be released in the US
Any word on that?
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Wilber_Stool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. As many as three million Russian
Edited on Sat Oct-25-08 01:07 PM by Wilber_Stool
POWs were sent to the concentration camps. Only a hand full returned. And then Stalin, thinking that anyone in custody that long must have been turned, put them into the gulag.
The good war indeed.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. POWs weren't treated as heroes in the Soviet Union, that's for sure.
Edited on Sat Oct-25-08 02:27 PM by lizzy
Do you know that Stalin's own son was one? Stalin refused to swap him for someone else, and he then was killed while trying to escape.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Normally returning Soviet POW's were given a ten year in labor camps
on the charge of anti soviet activity.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. It just goes to prove that starting wars is not a good idea.


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slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. The stories of rape reached Berlin...
before the Russians, and many generals asked that women and children be evacuated, but Hitler refused. He felt that the good germans had already fallen, and did not believe anyone deserved to escape the bitter end.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. Which Generals?
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. And, American troops raped and prostituted the same "comfort women" the Japanese did.
http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2007/04/27/us-troops-in-world-war-ii-raped-and-prostituted-the-comfort-women/

Police officials and Tokyo businessmen established a network of brothels under the auspices of the Recreation and Amusement Association (RAA), which operated with government funds. On Aug. 28, 1945, an advance wave of occupation troops arrived in Atsugi, just south of Tokyo. By nightfall, the troops found the RAA’s first brothel.

“I rushed there with two or three RAA executives, and was surprised to see 500 or 600 soldiers standing in line on the street,” Seiichi Kaburagi, the chief of public relations for the RAA, wrote in a 1972 memoir. He said American MPs were barely able to keep the troops under control.

Though arranged and supervised by the police and civilian government, the system mirrored the comfort stations established by the Japanese military abroad.

The Babe Garden

According to Kaburagi, occupation GIs paid up front and were given tickets and condoms. The first RAA brothel, called Komachien—The Babe Garden—had 38 comfort women, but due to high demand that was quickly increased to 100. Each woman serviced from 15 to 60 clients a day.

In his book “Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of WWII,” American historian John Dower says the charge for a short session with a prostitute was 15 yen, or about a dollar, roughly the cost of half a pack of cigarettes.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. It is misleading to equate US troops behavior with what the Japanese did. Ask the Chinese...
Koreans, Philippinos, etc.

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. How so?
Rape and forced prostitution are equally bad for the victims.

Just as what the Red Army did is no more justifiable than what the German Army did.
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. So basically people are saying "the women asked for it"?

Sounds familiar.
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TheLastMohican Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. The thing is
nobody ever talks about the atrocious behavior of German troops in former USSR.

The fact is nobody knows the exact number of raped russian, ukrainian, jewish women in the Ukraine and Belorus, but judging by the number of partisans - their ranks grew like mushrooms after a good rain.

Just one stat - 623 Belorus villages were torched together with their inhabitants. The Germans knew what was coming and they had it fairly easy.
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Gwendolyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'm not excusing or defending anything.
You only have to open the pages of the old testament to find "historical evidence" of women and young girls taken as sex slaves, raped, etc... Apparently old Yahweh himself approved of these tactics.

Unfortunately, all wars are started by men, and end up being paid for by women. It's a kind of warfare in itself.

You know, it is possible, while defending one side or another in whatever war, to still deplore ALL acts of depravity no matter which side has committed them.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Not just women but children too....(boys and girls)
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. I do not in any way condone the conduct of the Red Army, but
I can understand their conduct. Some of those soldiers served with the 62nd Soviet Army in Stalingrad. After that they were redesignated as the 8th Guards Army. This army marched all the way to heart of Berlin. The soliders of the 8th Guards, marched across a homeland that was laid desolate by a retreating German Army. No villiges, no villigers, no crops, no live stock. All destroyed by the Germans. When they crossed into East Prussia, the Politrucks told the soldiers of the Red Army that they could extract a revenge against the Germans without the iron hand of Soviet Army discipline restraining them. It was revenge, pure and simple, nothing more nothing less.
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Catalina La O Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
18. `
`
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. Why else do you think their Serbian imitators saw no problem with rape camps in Bosnia?
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