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McVeigh (the OK City bomber) linked to Palin. A question for Sarah.....

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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 01:16 PM
Original message
McVeigh (the OK City bomber) linked to Palin. A question for Sarah.....
Many of us have seen the video of Palin stumbling on the question of whether abortion-clinic bombers are terrorists.

See video here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=223206&mesg_id=223206


What somebody needs to do is ask her whether she thinks Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist. Then relate the following facts....



Robert Kennedy Jr: If Palin Wants To Play Guilt-By-Association Then Media Should Discuss Her Secessionist Party Ties



Alaskan Independence Party: The Last Refuge of a Scoundrel

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/alask...

In 2004, America's malleable mainstream media allowed itself to be manipulated by artful Republican operatives into devoting weeks of broadcast attention and drums of ink to unfairly desecrating John Kerry's genuine Vietnam heroics while obligingly muzzling serious discussion of George W. Bush's shameful wartime record of evasion and cowardice.

Last week found the American media once again boarding Republican swift boats against this season's Democratic candidate armed with unfair and hypocritical attacks artfully designed by GOP strategists to distract attention from the cataclysmic outcomes of Republican governance. Vice Presidential hopeful Sarah Palin has taken to faulting Senator Barack Obama for his casual acquaintance with a respected Illinois educator Bill Ayers, who forty years ago was a member of the Weathermen, a movement active when Obama was eight and which he has denounced as "detestable." Palin argues that the relationship proves that Obama sees "America as being so imperfect that he is palling around with terrorists who would target their own country."

The Times dedicated a page one article to Obama's relations with Ayers and CNN's Anderson Cooper obliged Palin by rewarding her reckless accusations about Obama's patriotism with a major investigative report. Fox, meanwhile, is still riveting its audience with wall to wall coverage of this pressing irrelevancy.

But if McCarthy-era guilt-by-association is once again a valid political consideration, Palin, it would seem, has more to lose than Obama. Palin, it could be argued, following her own logic, thinks so little of America's perfection that she continues to "pal around" with a man--her husband, actually--who only recently terminated his seven-year membership in the Alaskan Independence Party. Putting plunder above patriotism, the members of this treasonous cabal aim to break our country into pieces and walk away with Alaska's rich federal oil fields and one-fifth of America's land base--an area three-fourths the size of the Civil War Confederacy.

AIP's charter commits the party "to the ultimate independence of Alaska," from the United States which it refers to as "the colonial bureaucracy in Washington." It proclaims Alaska's 1959 induction as a state "as illegal and in violation of the United Nations charter and international law."

AIP's creation was inspired by the rabidly violent anti-Americanism of its founding father Joe Vogler, "I'm an Alaskan, not an American," reads a favorite Vogler quote on AIP's current website, "I've got no use for America or her damned institutions." According to Vogler AIP's central purpose was to drive Alaska's secession from the United States. Alaska, says current Chairwoman Lynette Clark, "should be an independent nation."

Vogler was murdered in 1993 during an illegal sale of plastic explosives that went bad. The prior year, he had renounced his allegiance to the United States explaining that, "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government." He cursed the stars and stripes, promising, "I won't be buried under their damned flag...when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home." Palin has never denounced Vogler or his detestable anti-Americanism.

Palin's husband Todd remained an AIP party member from 1995 to 2002. Sarah can be described in McCarthy-era palaver as a "fellow traveler." While retaining her Republican registration, she attended the AIP's 1994 convention where the party called for a draft constitution to secede from the United States and create an independent nation of Alaska. The McCain Campaign has reluctantly acknowledged that she also attended AIP's 2000 Convention. She apparently found the experience so inspiring that she agreed to give a keynote address at the AIP's 2006 convention and she recorded a video greeting for this year's 2008 convention. In other words, this is not something that happened when she was eight!

So when Palin accuses Barack of "not seeing the same America as you and me," maybe she is referring to an America without Alaska. In any case, isn't it time the media start giving equal time to Palin's buddy list of anti-American bombers and other radical associates?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7386216&mesg_id=7386216




Slate -> The Fray -> Press Box
6 posts - 3 authors - Last post: Sep 15
In addition to Todd Palin, the AIP also claims Michigan Militia founder and gun dealer Norman Olson as a member. Recall that Timothy McVeigh ...
www.slate.com/discuss/forums/thread/1803266.aspx - 36k


Bob Ostertag: McCain/Palin's Militia Politics
Oct 18, 2008 ... Very interesting that Norm Olson relocated to Alaska in 2003. He's a real fan of Palin and a member of the AIP (aka AKIP). ...
www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostertag/mccainpalins-militia-poli_b_135836.html - 146k - Cached - Similar pages
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I hope she tours the pro-America states discussing her involvement
with this home grown terrorist. Doesn't this bring up "serious questions" that could turn into "serious allegations?"
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Oberman already did something on AIP, He's always in need of new
material. I wonder if he'd like to do a followup segment? :bounce:
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. We are winning without this
Wouldn't we be just as guilty of smear by association?
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Why are you knocking the effort here Nan?
Edited on Sat Oct-25-08 01:28 PM by happydreams
The repukes have already accepted guilt by association as a viable attack issue with the Obama Ayers link.

:shrug:
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Maybe she's like Matt Damon and thinks we should be above that.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Absolutely. They have been terrible
I don't know? I guess I feel like now is the time to be positive.
However, I don't want to throw cold water on anyone's research, so carry on.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. The minute you put the lid on something like this, truth is lost.
Edited on Sun Oct-26-08 12:28 PM by TheGoldenRule
I really don't understand posts like yours because I want no stone left unturned in finding out the truth about these traitorous criminals.

If Obama has nothing to hide this won't hurt him.

However, he did tell Matt Damon to chill out on his statements which I think it total bullshit and anti free speech. Which is what this country was founded upon, don't forget.

Frankly, I really am getting sick of this cover up shit being done by ALL politicians to ultimately protect themselves.

Rethugs & Dem's on both sides of the aisle wouldn't even Impeach * because it (maybe) could have hurt the presidential campaign. What total b.s. :puke:
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Hey, if the Gucci fits, wear it!
Maybe Obama should not be the one to raise the issue, but, if RFK jr. or any other surrogate wants to make the most of Palin's separatist leanings, why not? Had CBS gone to the wall with Dan Rather on those Air National Guard memos in 2004, we might have been spared the last four years!
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Right. After all as Bachman said: "we want to know if someone is anti-American"
:evilgrin:
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AmyCamus Donating Member (371 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
14. We're the good guys. We should act like it. We can win without acting like Republicans.
The OP is an epic FAIL.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. Where is the link to McVeigh?
I see common political philosophies, but no link to McVeigh.

Is this supposed to be a question?

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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. via Norm Olsen. ....
Edited on Sat Oct-25-08 06:57 PM by happydreams
This link of AIP to the Michigan Militia needs further exploration. Todd Palin, or even Sarah may well have known McVeigh.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. So, Palion knows Olsen, Olsen knew McVeigh? (edited to add)
Edited on Sat Oct-25-08 07:12 PM by ColbertWatcher
I read that. It's just a comment to an article. I was hoping to see links to news articles and images of AIP's membership rolls, photos of McVeigh with Olsen, Olsen with Vogler or AIP members or under their banner.

Hell, I'd even accept a blog post with all the connections spelled out.

As it is, the connections seems weak.

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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. Whether they are weak or not depends on what you are trying to do with those connections
If you are trying to make a legal case against Palin for her link to domestic terrorism I agree. But if you are trying to expose "who she is and where she came from", I think it is good info.

Oberman could do a followup on an earlier segment he did showing the larger context of these orgs like the AIP.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-25-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. I didn't know Vogler was dead until I read this. Are they saving this for this week or what? I've
only seen on MSM twice, once by Keith and the time by CNN. She's still wearing the polar bear pin.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. More on the political alliance between Sarah Palin, Vogler's AIP, and right-wing militias
Edited on Sun Oct-26-08 02:57 AM by leveymg
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/10/10/palin_chryson/

Meet Sarah Palin's radical right-wing pals

Extremists Mark Chryson and Steve Stoll helped launch Palin's political career in Alaska, and in return had influence over policy. "Her door was open," says Chryson -- and still is.

By Max Blumenthal and David Neiwert


Oct. 10, 2008 | PALMER, Alaska -- On the afternoon of Sept. 24 in downtown Palmer, Alaska, as the sun began to sink behind the snowcapped mountains that flank the picturesque Mat-Su Valley, 51-year-old Mark Chryson sat for an hour on a park bench, reveling in tales of his days as chairman of the Alaska Independence Party. The stocky, gray-haired computer technician waxed nostalgic about quixotic battles to eliminate taxes, support the "traditional family" and secede from the United States.

So long as Alaska remained under the boot of the federal government, said Chryson, the AIP had to stand on guard to stymie a New World Order.

SNIP

Though Chryson belongs to a fringe political party, one that advocates the secession of Alaska from the Union, and that organizes with other like-minded secessionist movements from Canada to the Deep South, he is not without peculiar influence in state politics, especially the rise of Sarah Palin. An obscure figure outside of Alaska, Chryson has been a political fixture in the hometown of the Republican vice-presidential nominee for over a decade. During the 1990s, when Chryson directed the AIP, he and another radical right-winger, Steve Stoll, played a quiet but pivotal role in electing Palin as mayor of Wasilla and shaping her political agenda afterward. Both Stoll and Chryson not only contributed to Palin's campaign financially, they played major behind-the-scenes roles in the Palin camp before, during and after her victory.

Palin backed Chryson as he successfully advanced a host of anti-tax, pro-gun initiatives, including one that altered the state Constitution's language to better facilitate the formation of anti-government militias. She joined in their vendetta against several local officials they disliked, and listened to their advice about hiring. She attempted to name Stoll, a John Birch Society activist known in the Mat-Su Valley as "Black Helicopter Steve," to an empty Wasilla City Council seat. "Every time I showed up her door was open," said Chryson. "And that policy continued when she became governor."

SNIP

The AIP was born of the vision of "Old Joe" Vogler, a hard-bitten former gold miner who hated the government of the United States almost as much as he hated wolves and environmentalists. His resentment peaked during the early 1970s when the federal government began installing Alaska's oil and gas pipeline. Fueled by raw rage -- "The United States has made a colony of Alaska," he told author John McPhee in 1977 -- Vogler declared a maverick candidacy for the governorship in 1982. Though he lost, Old Joe became a force to be reckoned with, as well as a constant source of amusement for Alaska's political class. During a gubernatorial debate in 1982, Vogler proposed using nuclear weapons to obliterate the glaciers blocking roadways to Juneau. "There's gold under there!" he exclaimed.

Vogler made another failed run for the governor's mansion in 1986. But the AIP's fortunes shifted suddenly four years later when Vogler convinced Richard Nixon's former interior secretary, Wally Hickel, to run for governor under his party's banner. Hickel coasted to victory, outflanking a moderate Republican and a centrist Democrat. An archconservative Republican running under the AIP candidate, Jack Coghill, was elected lieutenant governor.

Hickel's subsequent failure as governor to press for a vote on Alaskan independence rankled Old Joe. With sponsorship from the Islamic Republic of Iran, Vogler was scheduled to present his case for Alaskan secession before the United Nations General Assembly in the late spring of 1993. But before he could, Old Joe's long, strange political career ended tragically that May when he was murdered by a fellow secessionist.

Hickel rejoined the Republican Party the year after Vogler's death and didn't run for reelection. Lt. Gov. Coghill's campaign to succeed him as the AIP candidate for governor ended in disaster; he peeled away just enough votes from the Republican, Jim Campbell, to throw the gubernatorial election to Democrat Tony Knowles.

Despite the disaster, Coghill hung on as AIP chairman for three more years. When he was asked to resign in 1997, Mark Chryson replaced him. Chryson pursued a dual policy of cozying up to secessionist and right-wing groups in Alaska and elsewhere while also attempting to replicate the AIP's success with Hickel in infiltrating the mainstream.

SNIP

Yet Chryson maintains that his party remains committed to full independence. "The Alaskan Independence Party has got links to almost every independence-minded movement in the world," Chryson exclaimed. "And Alaska is not the only place that's about separation. There's at least 30 different states that are talking about some type of separation from the United States."

SNIP

This has meant rubbing shoulders and forging alliances with outright white supremacists and far-right theocrats, particularly those who dominate the proceedings at such gatherings as the North American Secessionist conventions, which AIP delegates have attended in recent years. The AIP's affiliation with neo-Confederate organizations is motivated as much by ideological affinity as by organizational convenience. Indeed, Chryson makes no secret of his sympathy for the Lost Cause. "Should the Confederate states have been allowed to separate and go their peaceful ways?" Chryson asked rhetorically. "Yes. The War of Northern Aggression, or the Civil War, or the War Between the States -- however you want to refer to it -- was not about slavery, it was about states' rights."

Another far-right organization with whom the AIP has long been aligned is Howard Phillips' militia-minded Constitution Party. The AIP has been listed as the Constitution Party's state affiliate since the late 1990s, and it has endorsed the Constitution Party's presidential candidates (Michael Peroutka and Chuck Baldwin) in the past two elections.

The Constitution Party boasts an openly theocratic platform that reads, "It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions and to restore American jurisprudence to its original Biblical common-law foundations." In its 1990s incarnation as the U.S. Taxpayers Party, it was on the front lines in promoting the "militia" movement, and a significant portion of its membership comprises former and current militia members.

MORE


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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Thanks for the effort leveymg. This is great info.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. We'll have a few years now to sort out these connections for Palin's 2012 run
:rofl:
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. Guilt-By-Association? "She was an AIP member!
"There's a joke -- she's a pretty good-lookin' gal -- there's a joke around, that we're the coldest state with the hottest governor. And there's a lot of talk about her moving up. She was an AIP member, before she got the job as the mayor of a small town. That was a nonpartisan job. But to get along to go along, she eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics ... And she's pretty well sympathetic, because of her former membership."


Dexter Clark added that secessionists should "infiltrate" the two major parties when they could advance their cause this way.


But Lynette Clark makes it clear that she does not believe in working within the American political system. Clark, who served in the Air Force during the Vietnam War, says she once believed in America. But no longer.

"My God, our country's been completely whored out to the highest bidders." We no longer live in a democracy, she says. "We have a partnership between a powerful state and powerful corporate interests. By any other name that's fascism. It certainly isn't a democracy. Mussolini must have a grin as wide as the Yukon River, looking at what the United States has become."

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/09/10/alaska_secession/index1.html
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moonbatmax Donating Member (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Best Part of That Speech:
...she eventually joined the Republican Party, where she had all kinds of problems with their ethics...

Yes, even Republican ethics are a problem for her, huh?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-26-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
20. Too late to rec! Sorry.
:kick:
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happydreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-08 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Thanks.
:hi:
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Swagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-27-08 03:20 AM
Response to Original message
22. so she's a terrorist..and a traitor
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