So pissed. The entire sermon at my church today was a Mccain ad

Basically they harped on voting pro-life. Never mentioned the candidates by name, but the codewords were all there. Apparently it was the Bishops that came down and told the priests in the area to discuss this today.

Heres a direct quote:

"Catholics often face difficult choices about how to vote. This is why it is so
important to vote according to a well-formed conscience that perceives the proper
relationship among moral goods. A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes
a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, such as abortion or racism, if the voter’s
intent is to support that position. In such cases a Catholic would be guilty of formal
cooperation in grave evil. At the same time, a voter should not use a candidate’s
opposition to an intrinsic evil to justify indifference or inattentiveness to other
important moral issues involving human life and dignity.

There may be times when a Catholic who rejects a candidate’s unacceptable
position may decide to vote for that candidate for other morally grave reasons.
Voting in this way would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to
advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental
moral evil."


The racism and other moral reasons were not discussed in depth, just the right to life, pro-life crap. I am so pissed. I will be calling the church tomorrow. I am not a member, but went because out of town friends wanted to goto a church, and it was the closest one. I feel they wasted everyones time by preaching this crap. Even a friend of mine who is a Mccain supporter thought it was out of place and didnt welcome political discussion at church. Bat shit crazy I tells ya. I'm going to tell them their antics just made me donate some more $$$ to Obama.
:evilgrin:

Its great to vent here but it may also be time to tell truth to power where it counts.

Friends are still in town today so I will wait until they are gone. I am not a member of this church, it was just a close catholic church and my friends wanted to goto mass while visiting. I couldn't believe they think the most important thing in the world right now is fucking abortion. With all the wars, economy, corruption, they can only think of wedge issue shit? The more I think about it the more pissed I am. At least I saw a bunch of Obama bumper stickers in the parking lot.

Mother church isn't scared of anything but taxes.

I survived Catholic school. What did it for me was a stuffed shirt of a priest telling my class that women had a duty to die in childbirth to save the baby because the baby might be a boy. Since I was sure I was going to grow up to be a woman, the church and I parted company right then. I was ten.

I feel sorry for folks still under the Vatican's boots. They've been conditioned since birth to be terrified of life without the church. Catholics are more likely than their Protestant brethren to be liberal and favor both choice and birth control, but the Vatican still controls the minds and hearts of too many, and they allow the Vatican control because they fear hell in the future more than the hell on earth Vatican control of law produces in too many countries.

Cut your friends some slack. However, do mention that churches that engage in politics often find themselves paying taxes. Then hang up.

which is why you cannot vote for a man who has personally been involved in the killing of innocent people. On the issue of 'concern for the lives of the unborn', tell them you agree there alos. Since Republicans refuse, over and over again, to provide life-saving healthcare to pregnant women and to their children after they are born, you agree, it would be 'evil' to support anyone so immersed in the culture of death. In all conscience, no good Catholic who has taken to heart, Jesus' teachings could even consider voting for this party anymore (I am a Catholic btw). So, if it is the Republican Party they were referring to, I would be total agreement with them. Otherwise, they are contributing to the anti-right-to-life policies of the party of death and destruction and torture.

Makes me ill every time I hear this talk of being 'pro-life' as they completely ignore the record of 'anti'life' of the Republican Party, not just their illegal wars, but their refusal to provide health-care for millions of Americans which results in the deaths of tens of thousands of citizens.

Where does that fit in the scheme of things?

And that the GOP had full control of the gov't for 4 years, yet made no attempt to ban abortion. They don't want to ban it because it takes away their wedge issue.

Ask you priest why he supports the GOP is he wants to see fewer abortions.

:rofl:

and resulted in even lower church attendance.

go to the priest and tell him you want your money back b/c you did not donate to the McCain campaign.

tell the priest you will not donate money and you will encourage others to not donate money to a church that is a McCain campaign shill.

I would do it, absolutely. If I had the nerve, I would also go to the local tv affiliate and let them know about my actions... maybe take a camera crew... because there are ways to fight back that are effective.

asking for your money back to bring attention to this issue might be one way to do it.

for the last two weeks. I haven't talked to her today yet, to see if it happened again. She's furious. She asked me who she can report them to, but since it's all "code words", not actual candidate names, I don't think it's enough to revoke their tax-exempt status.

I suppose I should recommend she call the bishop.

Just thought maybe the Rockville in your s/n meant rockville, md. The MD area bishops seem to be pushing this very hard. I went to their website and they have a big thing on Faithful Citizenship. Of course right under that is the "October is the right to life month". Arrrrgh.

was made.

I left the Catholic church decades ago for a wide variety of reasons, so I can't say what's going on here in Maryland.

What goes on inside them is creepy, many of the people who attend are creeepy, and the smell is also creepy.

...you just sit there and are a passive recipient of anything the preacher has to say. Your job is to set there, agree with it, and dole out money.

No thanks!

Or did you give him tacit permission to continue?

I did think about getting up and leaving, but I am hoping a discussion with the Parish voicing my displeasure over the sermon and the fact the Bishops have ordered the churches to spew these talking points.

against the war. And one ass of a priest who talked about how evil the long-hairs were and how noble the war was.
(Just sayin')
Anyway, I'd ask them if they are believe in all the pro-life tenets, or are they just against abortion? Then ask what is the best way to end abortions. Birth control and education is the answer. If they still are being pricks about it, call the IRS.

congregations or does nothing else matter to them other than abortion. You should write a letter and let them know tithes will be down if McBush win this election. They love other people's money.

Fugg all religion.

Just once I'd like to read how someone stood up, shouted out that this isn't right, and walked out.

That week's donation can just as easily go to Open Door Mission or Catholic Charities as it can to St. fill-in-the-blank.

He said that "if illiterate women in India could learn to take their temperature and practice the rhythm method so could American women." He also railed about Science and progress being "destructive". I stood up, interrupted him and said" first of all, you may have noticed that India has a population explosion and the Rhythm method doesn't work." I further pointed out that is was far more destructive to encourage the birth of children who they know will die and resulting in the early death of the mothers as well through the rigors of malnutrition and repeated pregnancies! Then I asked him if he drove a car. He replied "yes". I asked if he had electricity in the rectory. He sad "yes". I advised him to stop using both because they were the results of the technology he despised as he used the argument "If God intended men to do such things they would have existed". Then I walked out saying I would not subject myself to anymore of this misogyny and propaganda! BTW, this was a Catholic Church 20 years ago!

:yourock:

I just started thinking about how they're always tools for fascist elements and homophobes and I'm like, why am I a part of this organization?

I switched my "envelope money" to the ACLU -- they are truly doing the Lord's work, and like Jesus, are despised by the hypocrites for it.

I would recommend going to the following site and filing a report on this church and priest

http://www.projectfairplay.org/report

I'm in a parish that's a bit more center-left so I don't see them pulling this stuff as often, but I would report them in a heart beat if they did.

:shrug:

Like working for peace instead of war. Helping the homeless and poor. Compassion towards immigrants (said we all were once immigrants). But after each of those points he came back to the abortion and unborn baby killer points.


At the end he asked everyone to pray to god and listen to who god says we should vote for. God will tell us the correct person to vote for. I was like, WTF, I didnt know there was a correct choice, shouldn't it be based on our research and opinions on the positions?

This is why I rarely go and only when asked to go by friends / family.

preordained and there wouldn't be an election.

And that the election is not to elect the pope or any other damn religious leader.

EML

God will tell you who is the right person to vote for...namely Barack Obama!

That's what She told me a little while ago anyway.

Re At the end he asked everyone to pray to god and listen to who god says we should vote for. God will tell us the correct person to vote for.

to vote for Democrats based on war and other important critical reasons.

It sounds like that particular priest decided to go beyond what was written in the statement.

My husband and I have not gone to our church over the last several months for that same exact reason. I will withhold my money and my support when they open their mouths to spew politics. It makes me sad because my faith is a very important part of who I am and is what shaped my Democratic beliefs.

I gave to Harvesters' House instead and will do so again. I figure that my money is of much more use there and makes me feel as though I am more closely following my Christian beliefs.

"... to enforce Christ's moral teachings? Father, is there ANY virtue whatsoever in having NO CHOICE? When Christ said 'My Kingdom is not of this earth' was he lying? Must the Church us Caesar's laws instead of it's moral power? Oh, ye of little faith!"

:shrug: :eyes:

Furthermore, I strongly believe that churches should be taxed. They are nothing more than conservatve political operatives anymore.

But it's ok to kill humans, allow genocide, and other "Christian" like things in foreign places, all in the name of their god.

"A Catholic cannot vote for a candidate who takes a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, such as abortion or racism...At the same time, a voter should not use a candidate’s opposition to an intrinsic evil to justify indifference or inattentiveness to other important moral issues involving human life and dignity."

Therefore, because you believe racism is an intrinsic evil like they said, you cannot use McCain's opposition to the "intrinsic evil" abortion to justify indifference or inattentiveness to the important moral issue involving human life and dignity that you believe racism to be. And that McCain's supporters frighten you because they have become so racist, and so does McCain because he doesn't say and do enough to discourage their racism. Therefore, you had to make a decision as to which was the lesser of the two evils, and you decided abortion was it. Therefore, to take a stance against racism, your conscience tells you to vote for Obama.

Also, I can think of plenty of reasons to vote for Obama that fall within this statement:

"There may be times when a Catholic who rejects a candidate’s unacceptable
position may decide to vote for that candidate for other morally grave reasons.
Voting in this way would be permissible only for truly grave moral reasons, not to
advance narrow interests or partisan preferences or to ignore a fundamental
moral evil."

Considering the last 8 years of Republican immoral & horrific rule

Take your business elsewhere.

Don

The last couple of times I've gone to a church, I've noticed the money passer thing has been pretty light on the donations. I'm surprised they still think people will put in 10% of their income.

There shouldn't be a tax exemption for religion in the first place.

spreading their "god hates gay marriage" crap to CA via phonebanking crom Utah -- why can't they just be happy in their perfect MormonLand state, they have to try to force their BS on us here in CA!!

It's time to find another church, or stop going to church completely?

and walked out. Kinda makes me want to go to church just to see if they say something like that so I can walk out.

I may get my friends together and go next Sunday just to see

... should have been included at the end of the sermon just to make it official. :eyes:

promoting the social mission of Jesus, and even the vision of RFK. My pastor even spoke of Jesus as "community organizer", right after Palin attempted to trivialize the role. Of course, I live in the Chicago Archdiocese, home of Rev. Michael Pfleger, Rev. Andrew Greeley, and Saul Aulinsky's "Back of the Yards" Council.:dem:

I am still searching for a place like that. Teaching about compassion and togetherness instead of these divisive issues.

worked among Hindus and Muslims, giving him an appreciation for both faiths but a total lack of patience for the preachers of hate and bigotry. Yes, I am indeed very fortunate, although I can't say that I have much admiration for our Cardinal, pedophile enabler-in-chief!

Shows what the Catholic Church can be, if it chooses.

wouldn't want to cooperate with evil... :dunce:

Are they handing out the Catholic Answers voting guide? What is a real piece of work. :crazy: :puke:

Called "faithful Citizenship". I wont do them any favors and post the link. You can google it if you want. Its a bunch of propaganda talking points that are skewed towards voting against abortion and choice. The website link is front and center on my local archdiocese website.

I didn't bother picking up any printed propaganda afterwards, I was attempting to find the exit as fast as possible.

Yes I am.

Now, however, I no longer support the church. We need to elect Senator Obama because as a nation we deserve to have opportunity and hope. Any religion that gets mixed up in politics is not operating as a religion but rather an arm of the political party it is representing. Every religion that is currently supporting McCain just wants to keep the majority of people as indentured servants to the rich. They do not have our best interests in mind. I was hoping the Catholics had enough problems and would stay out of it. I would think the church would want the people to have jobs so they could give money every week. I think they are cutting their nose off to spite the face. I guess I just don't understand.

and a year or two later, it's why he stopped going as well.

I regret not contacting the pastor to explain why I left, and I regret that my husband didn't do the same. I hope that you do send them a letter explaining, or if you go back, drop a note in the collection basket explaining why you aren't supporting them anymore. (If you don't feel the need to be anonymous, maybe make out a check to them for ZERO dollars with the memo line stating "politics don't belong in church.")

Putting a recording of their violations into a youtube video and calling it out for what it is (coded language endorsing a candidate) would be tempting.

and every one of them is for Obama. The Bishops can rail all they want, but the rank-and-file aren't listening, any more than they listen to the birth control nonsense.

Problem is, this is the 21st century.

Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell.
Spirituality is for people who have already been there.

is a member at the assembly of God and doesn't even believe Catholics will go to heaven? They want to vote for people who don't even like them. And what I say to my pro-life friends...Bush has been in office for eight years and guess what? Abortion is still legal because it's the least of their concerns. They just use the pro-life crap to hook ignorant people.

and donate to Obama in the old church's name :evilgrin:

remind him of the church and state thing,and that there's alot more at stake than abortion, so what if they boo you, Fuck 'em.

but just motivated me to leave home by the time I was sixteen.

If religion really was all those things Jesus preached, then all pastors and ministers, would be living in 1 bedroom apartments and taking public transportation.

The elites use religion in order to protect their power structure using fear of eternal damnation.

TAX THEM!

supports Obama!

A few weeks ago the pastor brought a woman in to tell us how to vote. Instead of giving the anti-abortion speech he expected, she talked about all the teachings of the Church, and said it was our duty to examine the candidates and then examine our consciences. He about fell off his chair!

Friggin' jerks never mention those who died in wars, those not necessary, like Iraq.

Only the unborn matter to them. No one else matters at all. Iraqis can die, US troops can die, but who cares? Only the unborn whose mothers don't want them should be born, the rest of us can die first, so long as that happens.

Sorry, but you're smart enough know they're B.S.ing you on this stuff, so why wouldn't it follow that the rest of it is B.S. too?

Corporate greed without any checks and balances is moral.
Sorry for the rant, but children should not go to bed hungry. Iraqi families deserve not to be mangled by American gunfire.

If my church did this, it would no longer be my church nor would they get a cent of my money......ever.

in to the IRS.

If you want to stay Catholic, seek out the "renegade" parish that exists in most cities. In Minneapolis, it's St. Joan of Arc. In Portland, it's St. Philip Neri.

Also when the "homosexuality is an obimination" and other intolerance and hate preaching

against gays begins--???


And, of course, the BS about female inferiority --

Yeah -- they need a lot of booing --- !!!

or a candidate who has joked about bombing Iran and killing thousands if not millions of innocent citizens of that country. Nice values.

No to “preventive war”
John Paul II, Ratzinger, Tauran, Ruini. The position of the Church has been reiterated through the mass media. The crisis with Iraq has to be resolved within the framework of the United Nations

http://www.comunione-liberazione.org/articoli/eng/1/nowar.html

That crap really pisses me off. Sorry for the caps, but...:mad:

My assistant, who is Pentecostal, reported that the McSame thing happened to him last Sunday.

He also said he almost got up and walked out! Not shabby for someone who joined us a couple of years ago as a staunch conservative -- then spent a year and a half sharing a cubicle with me! :evilgrin: He's definitely on our side now, though he's still anti-choice, and probably always will be...