An(other) open letter to Freepers and Lurkers.

Dear Freepers,

I have been on Democratic Underground openly as a Republican for nearly three years. I am not the only one. There are many moderate Republicans, Libertarians, and others that are not expressly ‘Democrat’ or ‘Liberal’ that post to and visit this site. The non-Democrats are here for pretty much the same reasons the Democrats are; we are all concerned that something very wrong has been happening to our beloved country and yours.

Recently these concerns, these fears, have been proven to be well-founded. So clearly visible is the evidence that even the most staunch administration supporter must admit, even if only to his or her self, that there is real cause for concern. Whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, a great crime has taken place against our national security interests, and the perpetrators are likely administration officials.

It is now an established fact that Valerie Plame-Wilson worked as a N.O.C. (Non-official cover) operative for the CIA. It is an established fact that she worked on Counter-Proliferation and gathering intelligence on Weapons of Mass Destruction. It is an absolute fact that someone leaked her identity, thereby destroying her covert status, to people who did not have the security clearance to apprehend that information. It is a fact that the CIA filed a criminal complaint with the Justice Department.

Only the most self-deluded of you can still tell yourselves that this whole thing was some kind of hoax cooked up by the Wilsons together with the CIA… in that case it is only yourselves you are fooling with such conspiracy theories. The rest of you should be FURIOUS that a national security asset responsible for telling our government who had what WsMD where and when was compromised. You should join those of us who have been carefully paying attention and DEMAND that the perpetrator(s), whoever it may be, be brought to justice.

Not to demand accountability is to condone illegal behavior by our government. Party affiliation does not demand that one protect criminals. Real patriots call for justice no matter who damages our national security, and there is no longer any doubt that real damage has been done.

Democrats and Republicans are not sports teams, but so many apply a sports fan mentality to politics. Wearing the team jersey, in this case, does not mean that you must support and cheer on your ‘team’ no matter how many rules they violate or penalties they accrue. It does not mean you must shout down the other ‘side’ while allowing your ‘team’ to raise ticket prices, destroy the playing field, and gouge us all at the concession stand.
This is not a game. This is OUR country. I am a Republican because I believe in states’ rights, fiscal conservatism, and limited global involvement where we are not threatened. This administration has demonstrably violated real Republican values on enough levels that I cannot consider them or anyone who supports them a real Republican anymore.

This is not about who is ‘right’ and who is ‘wrong’, although I am not ashamed in the least to say that the Democrats have been right far more often than not these last several years, - this is about doing the right thing for America. Real patriots will step up, have the strength and grace to acknowledge that this damage has been done, and work together with us fix as much of the damage as we can, bring the perpetrators to justice no matter what their party affiliation, and make sure that nothing like this ever happens again.
The rest of you will continue to dissemble, invent conspiracy theories, keep yourselves fooled, and enable embedded criminals to do only more damage to our beloved country.

This is not a game, these are not sports teams. As a real American patriot whose ancestors fought in the First War for this country, I’m asking other real patriots to step up and demand accountability for and from those in power.

We here are on the side of the Constitution. We are on the side of law, order, and justice. We are on the side of a free and Democratic America…

And you are either with us or against us.

-Dr. E

Beautifully stated, my friend.

:patriot:

Your compliments are priceless. :blush:

:patriot:

Thanks for that post. Well done.

:toast:

and send it to newspapers? People need to understand this is not a partisan issue, and you've said it perfectly.

ps by changes, I ment reference to freepers - this is important for everyone to understand.

edit: typo

I haven't done a LTTE in a while.

I suppose it's about time, thanks for the push.

:patriot:

The Dr's voice should be heard on a wider stage.

K n R

this is a wonderful letter and it is good to know that not all Republicans are as crazy as Bush supporters. It did used to be a respectable party- and hey, financially responsible- what an idea!

I really like your analogy of this not being a game. I fear that the average Bush supporter won't be able to open their eyes and see the obvious facts that you have layed out, though.

This is not a game. This is OUR country.

Very well said. OUR country is absolutely right.

Perhaps if more people on both sides begin to appreciate that we are all EQUALLY responsible for her, we just might be able to reverse the damage thats been done to our beloved America.

Its my fervent hope that your letter accomplishes just that. In fact, I've rarely read anything that I believed had a better chance.

-chef-

I'd be posting at the RepublicanUnderground.com

Why is it so hard for the Bush apologists to see what they are defending? This administration is organized crime masquerading as a political party. It's no longer about political philosphy or policy minutae...it's about profiting on policy decisions and destroying our country in the process.

I've done the requisite research.

The reason the rest of America doesn't is based on the 'ignorance is bliss' principle.

:boring:

country. Valerie Plame risked her life to make sure such would never happen. what say any of you if it does? Or would it just be "Bill Clinton's Fault"?

Democrats and Republicans are not sports teams, but so many apply a sports fan mentality to politics. Wearing the team jersey, in this case, does not mean that you must support and cheer on your ‘team’ no matter how many rules they violate or penalties they accrue. It does not mean you must shout down the other ‘side’ while allowing your ‘team’ to raise ticket prices, destroy the playing field, and gouge us all at the concession stand.

This is not a game. This is OUR country. I am a Republican because I believe in states’ rights, fiscal conservatism, and limited global involvement where we are not threatened. This administration has demonstrably violated real Republican values on enough levels that I cannot consider them or anyone who supports them a real Republican anymore.

**************

I don't agree with your politics, but I do agree on the sports mentality. When I see a talking head republican stand up to his/her party for the crap going on, I applaud them. But I see some here who discount the persons "eyes wide open" moment and just bash the person for having an R next to their name.

In the past I enjoyed having "healthy discussions" where I would enjoy arguing differing philosophies with others who might be Republicans, knowing that I could have a beer with them and enjoy the same basic outlook on life that many of them did. I can only hope that we can find some way of getting a media or other way to get the message out as to what is really going on to many out there that I think are just lost and are getting increasingly sucked into this excuse mongering bunch. I'd like to think we can have a healthy country again that we can all enjoy and be proud of, even if we have disagreements.

The sad part of it with your sports fan analogy reference is that I agree SO much with that. And what makes it sad for me is that it is making it harder to be a good sports fan that I was in the past where I really enjoyed it. This year, my college team didn't even make the NIT, let alone the NCAA's, but I've run a web site for over a decade that allowed our schools' alumni to do a healthy NCAA tournament pool, complete with live by the minute team and pool scoring updates, etc., since they've been in it many times over the years. This is the first year that I've pretty much completely put it aside with a lot of other higher priority items to do. Not having a team in the tourney makes it a little easier for me and some of the fans I think, but I've already had a number of people calling me and asking me where the pool is this year, and I think some of them are pretty strong Republicans too (even though we didn't talk much politics on those mailing list discussions. I miss that, on the other hand, my conscience won't allow me to be buried in it any more. I'm hoping that next year both the team and our country will be in better shape that we can return to having healthy life distractions again.

Now though, I'd rather feel like I tried my darndest to help the grass roots get this country back and doing it in ways that I'm most able to do it. Your post here is a good effort on your part too. Thanks very much! I know good liberal sports fans and good conservative sports fans, but we both need to keep our focus on the reality of what's happening not devolving into a high fiving shouting match that does noone any good when many don't see the real dire consequences of it.

:thumbsup:

Great post. :hi:

If it was the Clinton admin doing this right now I'd probably be posting the same thing over at a conservative website. ;)

I'm SO pissed... I lost all the stuff I stole from you over the years because I thought I had saved it all before reformatting my hard drive... :cry: :argh: :cry:

Sooo.... when you gonna blow DU's bandwidth and do a gallery? (notsosubtlehint...)

http://www.seedsofdoubt.com/swamprat/index.htm

It's missing a lot of pix, including new ones, but I do not maintain that site so I have little control. If I had time to do some web authoring I would improve it, but I am too busy in school to do much else.

Here's another new one: :D

the Bret Hume one you did after the London bombing. His face changed and he suggested that it was a good time to buy stocks because of the tragedy.

You are great with graphic design ... I hope that that is what you are studying in school!

I have a couple of fine arts degrees, but now I am working on two science degrees... which reminds me, I need to go use a university computer lab now. ;)

LMBO!!!

Recommended

Sure, there are die-hards on both sides of the aisle, but Dems just can't compare to the GOP when it comes to swallowing and regurgitating every single damn-blasted lie that their leaders float to them. History is not going to look kindly on many of our recent Congress-critters of either party, but I think that the modern GOP is going to be looked on as having tolerated and enabled some of the worst assaults on our democracy since the civil war.

I didn't know you were a Republican. If I had, I might have had a little (not much, mind you) more tolerance for some of the plain weird to simply horrible ideas I've seen you post. :evilgrin:

GREAT post and it'll be a very wonderful LTE. Go for it. :thumbsup:

I've long suspected that there are MANY real Republicans that are mad, embarrassed, ashamed, or all of the above, about the actions of this administration & it's blind-to-reality supporters.

Please send this to as many papers & media outlets as you can. Please, also, form a political activist group of your like-minded Republican peers. You are correct when you say we must fight this together.
This isn't a sports contest, it is our LIFE & OUR FUTURE! Dems cannot fight these neocons alone, but w/the help of GOOD Republicans, we can get rid of them & begin the healing process of our nation.

Thanks again for proving that Republicans can in fact be human. :)

. . . when you and I can argue civilly about the proper balance between meeting human needs keeping government spending in line.

Does anybody remember when Republicans and Democrats used to do that?

As an empiricist, I tend to lean toward things like 'facts'... so I imagine there would be much we could agree on.

As for that which we cannot agree on; there is a reason 'civil debate' is constructive and good for democracy. We have not had 'civil debate' in this country for over a decade.

Hopefully we can get back to that.

a REAL Republican stand up and speak out. I am a lifelong Democrat, and I'll tell you, the disagreements I have with you on states' rights, fiscal policy, and foreign involvement are paltry (and at least in the case of fiscal policy, likely close to nonexistent) when compared to the differences you and I both have with this administration's policies. I am a patriot, and I am with you- and I am glad you are with me.

You're absolutely right- it's not like rooting for a sports team. I believe that a new paradigm has emerged in US politics, and it is an evil one. It is the idea that elected Congressional Representatives and Senators of a particular party should stand together with their party no matter what. The idea that party loyalty is more important than loyalty to the ideas and causes that brought them to power in the first place. The idea that the voters of their party should punish them for not "toeing the line" and voting with the party's priorities when those priorities are intended only to continue their party's power without regard to their party's ideological goals, over the priorities of their constituents, over their own ideological goals, and over any idea of values, ethics, or even their own highly-touted morality. I will point out that if a party has ideological goals that can only be achieved at the cost of this kind of behavior, which really is a sacrifice of the ideological goals of nearly ALL US citizens of ANY party, it should spark serious consideration of whether those goals are a good idea. A dog licks its balls because it can. One expects somewhat more thoughtful behavior from an adult human being.

I do not question by this whether your ideas on states' rights, fiscal conservatism, and foreign involvement are worth such a cost; it is not a cost that would be required to support those ideas and enact policies that follow your views. It is the social agenda that I question, and I suspect that you do not share it. An agenda that is so difficult to justify when compared with the underlying idea of liberty surely must be at least suspected to be incompatible with our Union's philosophical underpinnings. This is demonstrated forcefully when one realizes that in order to enact this agenda, brainwashing is required to ensure this lockstep behavior. So not merely the goals themselves are questionable, but the only possible means of achieving them lead to behavior that I only barely hesitate to label as disloyal to the principles upon which our Union is founded. Not by the majority of your party; but rather by the individuals you have permitted to take its reins.

The idea that our lawmakers, far less our elected and appointed administration, not to even mention our judiciary, should or even would ever behave in this manner is in and of itself a betrayal of the principles on which this country is founded. Worst of all, by placing party loyalty above loyalty to our country, this idea is poisonous to our Union. If there is a way that this wonderful experiment can be brought to a crashing halt and all of us find ourselves under the heel of a tyrannical boot, this is it.

I believe that the most important lesson our founders wished us to understand was that liberty must precede all other loyalties. If we are not first, foremost, and always dedicated to liberty above all things, safety, country, religion, political parties, or anything else, our ability to even have loyalty to any of these other causes will eventually be compromised. Liberty must be first among our values, driving the formation of ethics that counsel us not to give up any of our own without a clear purpose and a clear end to the surrender of it, and that prick our consciences when we see another's liberty compromised, and finally to morals that make it the highest imperative. I see people all the time contend that life is more important than liberty, that safety is more important than liberty, that patriotism is more important than liberty, that religion is more important than liberty, that someone's political party affiliation is more important to them than their liberty. When any one of us either condones the compromise of ANYONE'S liberty by one of us "acting in the common good," whether that compromised person is "one of us" or not, the liberty of ALL of us suffers. If a person does not believe that liberty must precede all other values, then that person probably should consider whether they really want to live in the US, because that is and must be how we live here. If we ever stop, we will fall.

And the worst effect of this lockstep mentality is not on the Republican party; it is upon the Democrats, who have little choice in the face of such behavior (assuming it is successful, as it was for over a decade) but to engage in the same behavior themselves, unless the voters step in to end the lockstep. And the worst threat of this lockstep mentality is not civil war; it is tyranny, when there is no choice but to sign up for one of the "teams" and move on without examining where one is going. This is a recipe that was followed by Germany in the middle of the twentieth century (though only by one party in that country); and we all know how that came out. If we don't want that here, we MUST recognize the peril and fight it.

That extends to what preceded it as well; "litmus test" voting, the belief that a voter should pick an issue and vote always for the candidate that represents their view on that issue, without regard to the candidate's position on other issues. By doing this, BOTH parties have been at fault. A voter must be wiser than this. And it's not really a matter of intelligence; it's a matter of a) taking the time to find out and b) taking the time to think it over. The news media have played their part in this, as well; the idea that a fundamentalist Christian is too dumb to make a choice based on anything but abortion, gay marriage, and the religion of a candidate is not merely propaganda intended to convince the fundamentalist Christians that they should do so, but insulting. I had wondered how long it would take these folks to realize the extent to which they were being led around by the nose. It is beginning to look like at least some of them have figured it out. (I am not stating that you are or are not a member of that community; it is immaterial to me. If you are a patriot of our Union, and willing to place liberty above life, that is enough for me, and many another.)

I had almost lost faith that Republicans like you still existed. Until last November, I feared that our Union was lost, that the locksteppers had won and that there was no way back. I confess it, and I confess as well that I should have known better. The polls tell me that you were just enmeshed in your own affairs, and had trusted that you didn't have to watch over it. I suspect you've learned a lesson that you'll not soon forget; I certainly hope so. It was a long wait for you, but ultimately worthwhile. One of the most famous members of your party said it clearly: "You can't fool all the people all the time."

I hope that if my party succumbs to the same malaise, I have the courage to stand up and say so as you have; I hope that I am not ignoring and have not ignored signs of it. I don't think I have; but you stimulate me to check rather than blindly assume. Thank you for that. And thank you collectively for looking up and noticing, and doing something about it at the polls last November; I, at least, pledge to you that I will make an effort to watch my party for signs of this problem and act ruthlessly and militantly to eradicate it if I see them.

Hmm, I think I got up on the grandstand a bit. Forgive me.

I agree with you.

I knew Bush would be a disaster during the Debates with Gore. 'Fuzzy math' my ass. Gore knew what he was talking about and Bush used people's ignorance to his advantage. I knew then that this would be a dangerous president... I just didn't know how dangerous.

:toast:

You are a true patriot! Proud to be associated with you here.

:bounce::applause::yourock::applause::bounce:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_rights

States' rights as "code word"

It is often claimed that the term "states' rights" has been used as a code word for more recent defenders of segregation, perhaps due to the use of "States' Rights" as the official name of the "Dixiecrat" party led by segregationist presidential candidate Strom Thurmond. George Wallace, the Alabama governor who famously declared in his inaugural address, "Segregation now! Segregation tomorrow! Segregation forever!", later remarked that he should have said, "States' rights now! States' rights tomorrow! States' rights forever!" Wallace, however, claimed that segregation was but one issue symbolic of a larger struggle for states' rights; in that view, which historians dispute, his replacement of segregation with states' rights would be more of a clarification than a euphemism.<4>

In 1980, on the opening day of his presidential campaign, Ronald Reagan said "I believe in states' rights" in a speech at Neshoba County fairgrounds near Philadelphia, Mississippi, which had been the site of the murders of three civil rights workers in 1964. Some, such as Andrew Young, felt the speech and its location made for a racially-symbolic gesture,<5> though campaign staff have flatly denied any connection.<6> At the same event, Thurmond (who was, by then, a senator from South Carolina) declared: "We want that federal government to keep their filthy hands off the rights of the states." Thurmond had been an ardent segregationist decades before, though he publicly opposed it during the 1970s and later.

-----------------------------

Civil Rights Movement

During the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s, states' rights became strongly associated with Southern racial politics, with proponents of racial segregation and Jim Crow laws denouncing federal interference in these state-level policies.

Brown v. Board of Education (1954) overruled the Plessy v. Ferguson (1896) decision, but the Fourteenth and Fifteenth amendments were largely inactive in the South until the Civil Rights Act of 1964(42 USC 21) and the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

With Martin Luther King's nonviolent campaign for civil rights, a bus boycott, sit-ins, and desegregation attempts by freedom riders (several were badly beaten by white supremists) and others achieved the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

There was states' rights opposition to voting rights at Edmund Pettus Bridge, which was part of the Selma to Montgomery marches that resulted in the Voting Rights Act of 1965. James Reeb, Jimmie Lee Jackson and Viola Liuzzo are three civil rights workers who were murdered by opponents of civil rights.<2>

...might also get impeachment on the table...

:toast:

The short answer is 'no', I am not for unlimited state sovereignty. I'm for balance between state identity and national homogeny.

No state should be able to override the US Constitution and decisions of the Supreme Court. When it comes to the interpretation of the Bill of Rights, the SCOTUS has the final word.

BUT... there are plenty of 'gray' areas regarding personal freedoms that I believe should be left up to each state to determine and shape their identity.

These include, but are not limited to; prostitution, drug use, regulation of industry, regulation of natural resources, and more. Personally I believe that elections and education should be more federalized, with each state deciding for itself whether to impose higher standards or not.

There is not room for the limitation on certain civil rights, including the right to marry.

Used to be Republicans that were all about individual freedoms.

Go fig.

:shrug:

Segregationists were for it when states defended segregation, and medical marijuana advocates are for it when states attempt to undo the idiocies of the federal War On Some Drugs.

Shame the traitor!

Traitor to our Country, not his party.

Well done Doc.

bush and his cabal need a high sticking penalty. A trip to the Hague works for me.

Stuff gets done when there's loyal opposition and negotiation.

I never knew you were a Republican, but knowing that you are does not bother me because I can see you are a rational person. I think it is good to have some Republicans at DU just so long as they are here to carry on a rational discussion and not try to smear everyone who does not follow the Bush party line. While we may not agree on everything I can see that you are a level headed person so I think it is a good thing to be able to hear your perspective on things. Thanks.

...about REAL republicans..

..." I am a Republican because I believe in states’ rights, fiscal conservatism, and limited global involvement where we are not threatened."...

Let us get past this and still be able to have this same dialougue. We all need to talk. Thank you for saying this!

on my paternal AND maternal side. They have fought in wars to protect this country ever since. Altho I have no immediate relatives in the Iraq war I am still disgusted with this administration.

This war is not protecting our country, it is only protecting the oil interest. The oil interest who are gouging us for every cent bush will allow.

BRING OUR TROOPS HOME. REALLY SUPPORT THEM. And hold those in this administration accountable for the destruction, domestic and foreign that they have done.

I'm with you. 100%.

Although I'm sure we would have many disagreements on individual issues, you are the kind of Republican I grew up and argued constantly with, and though we disagreed there was always the honest desire to do what is best for the citizens of this, once great, nation.

So, here's another :kick: & R for your collection.

as an LTTE (though of course replace freeper with something else). I think it really could open some eyes.

At 36 years old i can honestly say (and i hope this doesn't offend you), you are the first admitted Republican that i have witnessed speaking rationally and intelligently. I'm sure there have been many folk who were Rs who i've spoken with who were reasonable and intelligent, but no one who has said out loud to me "I am a Republican" while i was in the course of talking with them has seemed particularly sane.

I grew up on Long Island, so that's probably a big part of it... well and the 10 years in Buffalo is the other part.

rock on Doc

K&R

First is north east MA.

... I've since lost track of him. We had many disagreements on Clinton, though I might even have some more things I might come to terms with him on issues such as corporate influence over him, etc.

The big thing we used to agree with towards the end of the last century was the problems with Microsoft being a monopoly which he hated as much as I had along with Bill Gates and everyone perpetuating it and we saw eye to eye on many things in our careers too.

I could always have a drink with him, shoot a game of pool, play a hand of cards, etc. and we had a good time, even if we had some healthy arguments at times and kept in touch with each other even after I left the bay area for a few years after that.

What was interesting was just about a year ago, about a year or so after I lost track of him when I think he left the bay area, I could have sworn I heard him calling into Thom Hartmann from Seattle, and he sounded like a changed man on that show, really getting in to what Thom Hartmann was saying, etc. I tried to ask Hartmann's people to a pointer to a phone number of address, etc. that I could reach him, but didn't hear back from them at all.

That just made me feel good that there are more people like you and him out there that are starting to come to their senses about what's really going on, and know when agendas by elected officials cross party lines and are no longer just "partisan" things any more.

message to heart. If only they all would.

Try posting something like this a freerepublic and see how long it's up. Your words indicate that we share many of the same values. Change party affiliation until the gangsters and nuts are purged from your home. If they can't clean up their act you're welcome here.

Stunningly direct, charged with the electricity of dissent, quintessentially American, infused with the respect and admiration the Constitution deserves.

This cannot be recommended enough.

You are a great American.

There are far 'greater' Americans than I.

Andy Stephenson was one. If all of us put a fraction of commitment into bettering this nation that Andy did, America would be the divine model of prosperity and Democracy by now.

Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame.

Al Gore and Jimmy Carter, even though it wasn't until a few years ago that it sank in.

There are so many who have worked selflessly to improve not just our nation, but the world, that it is hard to feel 'great'.

I just hope that the small things I do help... even if it's a little. For most of us, that's all we can do.

Thank you.

:patriot:

end up contributing to something great. At this dire moment in American history, that's precisely what is needed.

Dr. e-

I just took a look at your journal and you bring hope back to me.

It is good to know that a Republican realizes what has happened to our country. On one of your rants, you rightly stated that our country has become a fascist state.

This group of criminals are not Republicans, but few people in the party see that.

And just a question of curiosity- have you stated your thoughts on any of the right wing boards- and if so, what kind of response did you get?

Thank you for being a good American and a proud Patriot.

"Banned"

The right wing boards I've been on obsess over 'proving' that I'm not a Republican.

Their logic, invariably, is that since I agree with the 'Liberals' on certain issues, I'm just 'pretending' to be Republican. That way they can stick their fingers in their ears and scream 'I can't HEAR you!!'.

I'm a moderate Republican for sure, but their methods proved to me that they are more concerned with labels than they are substance.
Some RW posters were reasonable, most have no concept of rational debate.

One site even banned me because the Mod didn't like that I discussed their methods here on DU.

I know that DU doesn't tolerate right-wingers, but DU also doesn't pretend that they are open to opinions hostile to Democratic goals. Many right-wing sites claim tolerance for different points of view, but in reality they cannot debate the issues and tend to be less informed. So I try to frequent actual debate sites where they actually debate.

DU has been a source of sanity for me, as well as a magnificent resource for the empirical debator. ;)

{grammar}

:)

I laud you, Sir, for your bravery and your sound sentiments. May your ideas fly through the ether to root itself in a better place within political discourse.

That means something... Thanks.

Anyone not worried about the state of our nation at this point is...I just don't know. Just "Not right" in some way or another, I guess.

k&r!

You are so dead on ... it's about our country and our Constitution, that's where our allegiance should lie.

Thanks Doc. I agree with all the LTTE calls ... and may I suggest you also send a copy to Cafferty, Olbermann and anyone else who may be receptive.

There damn sure is !!!!

And one I'm proud to be associated with.

Thanks Doc.

anymore. It's about true patriotism vs. an anti-American agenda that is taking over our government. If only more from the right recognize that this is what is going on like you do.

This really does need to be sent to some newspapers, read LOUD AND CLEAR on tv so ALL of America can have their ears opened to the truth. Great Job!

Glad I recommended and :kick:

K&R for you, my friend. :patriot:

Thank you so much!

gawd I HATE it when republicans claim they are "fiscally conservative" - and NOT just for the past 6 years. Democrats simply do not agree with some of the garbage republicans like to spend money on - THAT DOES MAKE DEMOCRATS FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE

I -DO- believe in fiscal conservatism. That's why I can say that the current Administration is not Republican.

-Because they are spending America's wealth to enrich assholes. -I don't think I can put it more succinctly than that.

do you think only republicans believe in fiscal responsibility??? And republicans have LONG favored the wealthy over the working class, it has not just been going on since that bastard bush was installed - and I'm not going to cheer people who only finally saw the light only after repukes DESTROYED America - when it finally started AFFECTING THEM....people who probably still see that piece of SHIT reagan as the second coming :puke:

you seem to know everything about me.

Just like all the assholes on RightWing sites did.

Did you know that I was a 'Clinton's cocksucking liberal commie faggot' on the sites where I've criticized Bush?
Just like I was a 'Witch-Hunter' When I said I disagreed with 'favored nation trading status' being granted where it was not due?

I know for a fact that I am not influenced by partisanship. -Otherwise I would not be here.

It's great that you know so much about me that I did not even know.

Got anything else for me?

I'm just curious, I guess.



:shrug:

I come to this board to get away from republicans because I live in repuke hell in north Texas - it makes me sick to hear about "fiscal responsibility" as if repukes have always spent money wisely - THEY SUCK AND ALWAYS HAVE

means I will always have to deal with people who know everything about me because I'm still a Republican.

I don't understand. What part of;

"This administration has demonstrably violated real Republican values on enough levels that I cannot consider them or anyone who supports them a real Republican anymore."

-can you not grasp?

I had my young adulthood during the 80's and therefore, started to follow current events under the Reagan adm. Call me a cynic, but from what I've witnessed, this 'fiscally conservative' has always seemed to me buzzwords meaning drastic cuts in important social programs, corporate welfare, and running up huge deficits to support spending on militarism. If that's fiscal conservatism, and it seems to be in my experience, I'm having none of it.

were properly 'fiscally conservative'.

I just believe that it's a fairly 'conservative' trait to be 'conservative' and spend only what one can afford while 'conserving' the rest.
Nor did I say that Democrats cannot be fiscally conservative.

Self-described 'conservatives' lately are anything but.

I suppose there's always something to get pissed off about, eh?

:smoke:

At least in the majority. And the ones that are seem to be looking mostly at cyoa in 08'.

read so many good ones. I really hope that you take the advise of many other DUers and distribute it as wide and far as possible in the form of a LTTE. DU used to have a distribution list for major newspapers. I'll see if I can find it.

I so appreciate this post and am looking forward to reading your journal when I have more time. If we could just rationally disagree and have true conversation and dialogue about why we think one form of governing is better than the other, then perhaps we would all end up as moderates because we would understand the others POV without hatred and fear, and we would once again reach our political decisions through true compromise. B* and the PNAC philosophy have trampled on the constitution, ignored human rights, denied privacy, and ignored the laws which define government itself. We are no longer a Republic.

:kick: and R!

Our M.'Coon met with a sad fate. He was so gorgeous, so vibrant. I'm not a cat person, but I do miss him sometimes.

:cry:

I remember years ago when Republicans like you seemed so common.

Thanks for still existing. Both parties need to be strong to keep each other in check.

You said,
"I am a Republican because I believe in states’ rights, fiscal conservatism, and limited global involvement where we are not threatened."

Those are the reasons I vote for Democrats. :)

And so very little seems to make sense in these dark days.

Thank you for being you -- a loyal, true and concerned *American*. :patriot: :toast:

I couldn't let this pass. I have hesitated to register with DU but this post made me want to not just sign up but also to let Dr e know that this moderate Democrat really, really, really appreciates what he just wrote. You give me new faith in Republicans.

Note: the responses to the original message make me proud to be a Democrat. Thanks for the rational discussion.

:hi:

:hi:

Most Republicans do not pay much attention and are fooled by the bright lights and loud noises. They follow whoever wears the mantle.

But not all of us do.

Good of you to jump in!

eom

for what they support and enable is antithetical to patriotism, everything patriotic.

I've been enjoying your posts, including this one. So glad you joined us here at DU.

Cheers,
Julie

Proud to give this the 120th rec.

I will also join the others and ask that you send this message far and wide. Your sports analogy is SO spot on! This obsession with party affiliation at the expense of simple, basic right and wrong has disturbed me for a long time in this country. I'm old enough to remember many wonderful debates with real Republicans where party was a minor detail in the larger exchange of ideas, but it now seems a lifetime ago. Thank you for showing me that kind of thing may be rare now, but certainly not entirely extinct.

Bravo! Great post -- it doesn't get much clearer than that! :toast:

Many Americans do treat politics as they would sports -- if their "team" is the Republicans, then they have to stick with them to the bitter end, no matter what.
A real patriot realizes it is not Democrats against Republicans, but rather we the people against those currently in office, acting as a watchdog and making sure they are carrying out the will of the people.
This is beautifully said.

Very well-written post. It seems you have been mulling this over for quite some time.

I despise the GOP structure, just as I despise the DLC structure. But I do have friends who are Repubs and friends who are Dems, friends who are Indies and friends who are Greens. We disagree on certain fundamental issues from time to time, but the one common thread we all have politically is that we recognize this country is on the brink, if not already fallen into, the abyss of social, economic, and political disaster. You might say bush is a uniter, because he's certainly united us all against him and the bush administration agenda.

I am bookmarking this thread, which I rarely do, to share with my friends.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I've refrained from the typical "repug" and "repuke" name-calling we get around here. Not to bash those who do it, but it's just not for me. There are people whom I admire on all sides of political issues.

Political affiliation is a very personal thing. Being Republican, Democratic, or whatever doesn't necessarily mean you always toe the party line. For example, Joe Lieberman is a warmongering fucktard who calls himself an "independent Democrat." John McCain is a disingenuous prick who calls himself a Republican. Two sides of the same dried-up turd.

I guess I'll reserve the name-calling for those who deserve it.

It's just an expression to call someone a Repug or Repuke, so if it helps someone to vent that way, I'm okay with it. And of course Repubs call us Demoncrats and DemocRATS and all sorts of silly names. But I know Repubs who are honorable people, and so I tend to steer my wrath towards the leadership like the GOP (or the DLC).

It is no longer a partisan struggle. Many in the Democratic leadership are complicit in allowing the damage that is being done to our country. Justice would demand that everyone responsible be held to account for their behavior.

:patriot:

Every traditional Republican should have been alarmed the moment Karl Rove was given a policy position in Bush's White House. You don't give policy jobs to people whose only career has been political hatchet man. You're supposed to stick those people in the party structure and let policy people handle the governing.

It proved without doubt that the only thing Bush does is politics and disdains government. Such complete dismissal of sound governance is what brought us Iraq, Katrina, Gitmo, Gonzales and probably a host of other things we haven't discovered yet.

Kudos, K&R, etc. Your voice is most welcome here.

Which is another reason to believe that elections have been rigged in this country.

Nearly all Democrats, Libertarians, and Greens voted against Bush. In '04 there was a significant percentage of Republicans voting against him too... or just staying home.

The math just doesn't add up.

I'm quite disgusted with these unscrupulous assholes.

They've spent the last two+ decades embracing corruption and making Eisenhower roll over in his grave.