These people are nuts... we are going to be a 3rd world country

WTF? http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown


"The government has abandoned the original centerpiece of its $700 billion rescue effort for the financial system and will not use the money to purchase troubled bank assets

Paulson said the administration is exploring other options, including expanding the program beyond banks to nonbank financial institutions which provide essential credit to both businesses and consumers"


Folks we are in serious trouble here. We as a nation are BROKE - at the government, business, AND personal level. There are too many people who think the solution is to hand out more credit when credit was the cause of this mess to begin with.

You can not hand out credit to everyone and expect things to pick up as if we were back in 2005 and business as usual will go on.

The only way to solve this problem is to PRODUCE. Produce something of value, cut back on spending, build up revenues, and PAY OFF DEBT. Both at the personal, business, and government level.

The sad truth is this will require masssive changes to how we live and how we think. Too many people don't want to accept that.

If people don't get this in their heads we as a nation are looking at being cut off from the rest of the world and being viewed as the biggest dead beat nation in history.... and we will live a life reflecting that.

I can already see the desperation setting in for the lower economic level. At the retailer I work at shop lifting has gone through the roof the past few months, and for things you don't typically see. We have caught people for shop lifting baby food, food in general, soap, laundry detergent. Product we never typically see frequently being stolen.

When we have a situation where people are feeling they have a need to steal items such as these we are in trouble. I fear that MANY more people in the middle-upper classes are going to have to spend more than they can pay back, default, and lose everything before enough people wise up to all of this. The question is will it kill the country by the time they do?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J72VAQQSn2c

I look and only see a fool not a thief.... and about 50% of the nation is still fooling its self in to thinking we can make all this better if we could only find a way to get more credit. They will be in for a rude awakening when they realize the days of easy credit are gone for good....

Take a look at Europe.

Not exactly the same, but in the same deep shit.

By far. They will wash their hands of us and move back up while we crash and burn. The dollar won't even be the reserve currency in the future... just watch.

that survival is more important than growth. Unfortunately, conventional wisdom has it that growth is necessary for survival. We need a new model where stability trumps growth.

Thanks. :hi:

* This is a public service posting on behalf of the International Association of Fruits & Nuts, Ad Hoc DU Chapter.

:silly:

** This message may or may not reflect the opinions of 1plain1peanut, AcadamiaNut, aquanut, B3Nut, blackwalnut, bobbonutrino, bozosleftnut, bulugnut, BUSHISNUTS, butternut, butternutty, buttnutt, Canadiangunnut, Carnut, CarNutAtl, CA_liberal_nut, Chanute, Coconut Buddha Ape, coconut55, CoconutMonkey, coconut_oil, conspiracy-nut, darlademnut, deeznuts, DemNutz, democratinutah, deznuts, deznutts, donut, donut33, donutrevolutionary, Donuts, donutwant, econut, elvisthenut, fleabitpeanutmonkey, fluffernutter, fordnut, FruityNuts, fuzzlenutz, gaygunnut, GnomesLeftNut, grapenut1998, graphixnut, gunnut12345, HangingSaddamByHisNutsack, hazelnut, HealthNut, Historynut, Jacknut, jakenuts, JaneDoughnut, JustFiveMoreMinutes, just_anuther_gurl, KnuteThingrich, KNUTSY, konominut, leftnut22, leftrightwingnut, leftwingnut, LeftyWingNut, Lefty_WingNut, Lela McNutt, Letters From A Nut, liberalgunnut, LiberalInUtah, lilpnut, Lonenut23, lonenutcracker, loosenut, Lugnut, MACanuto, madminute, MilsurpNut, Minuteman, Minutes, monkeynuts6969, monolithic_juggernut, Mr Peanut, Mr. Peanut, mrpeanut, my15minutes, NONnutcase, NoToCubanRepubnuts, nsaixphnutex, numinut, Nut Grinderswitch, Nutboy, nutcase, nutcracker420, nutcrakcer, nutgrass, nuthatch, nuthead2ub, Nutkinnews, Nutmeg, NutMeg021576, nutmeg08, Nutmeg1576, Nutmeg61, Nutmegger, NutmegJenny, NutmegYankee, nutmeg_express, Nutniks, nuton2wheels, nutone, nutria, Nutrino, NutritionFacts, Nuts, nuts101, nutsco101, nutshell2002, nutsnbolts, NutterFluffer, NuttinBut, nutty left, NuttyFluffers, nuttywoody, nututhissite, oaknut, omgiamgoingnuts, Opera Nut, ornanut, paolonutuni, peanut, Peanut Gallery, peanut3729, peanut57, peanutbrittle, PeanutButter, Peanutcat, PeanutGallery, PeanutOne, peanutz, Permanut, pnutbutr, pnutchuck, pnutfarmer, PoliSciNut, PolitiNut, PublicHealthNut, publichealthnut1, pucknut, Racenut20, reichwingnut, somenut, soulforpeanuts, soulforpeanutz, Soynut, spacenut, Spudnuts, superbeachnut, TahitiNut, the wingnuttiest, tofunut, twominuteshate, undamynutz, Unuttymuh, videonut, walnutpie, weenut1, Wingnut19, Wingnutblogger, Wingnutsawry, wwwalnut, or yoganut.

U.S. government will give $700 billion in bonuses directly to corporate executives, with no strings attached. This system is more efficient because it eliminates all the middlemen. Bonuses may be increased up to double for executives who efficiently eliminate jobs or ship jobs overseas. Within ten years, it is expected that at least a few cents will trickle down to a checkout clerk at the caviar store.

and the economic crisis would be OVER for that cost.

Give 100-200 million people under a certain income guideline $3000-$7000 each... that's several mortgage and or car payments for most people... and enough breathing room to afford something extra.

But no, these fuckers are going to perform the final coup de gras on our economy and crush America once and for all.

That will NOT fix the root causes of this crisis. You are still suggesting handing out money on CREDIT. That money will have to come from the treasury, which is in a DEFICIT right now, meaning the treasury will BORROW that money from China or someone else to send it to the citizens further compunding the problem.

it would be credit going back into the economy rather than straight into the banks.

At least on it's way to the banks, there would be useful consumption of goods.

I admit I was exaggerating when I said it would 'solve' the problem. It's just a less bad solution with a better shot at helping steer clear of the worst.

but we already are a Third World country

Among so-called industrialized nations, we rank about 47 in health care, we're number one in infant mortaility, we're way down the list in education, our functional literacy rate is a disgrace, our infrastructure is on the verge of collapse, we're pretty close to flat broke, we're enormously in debt, our military is understaffed and underqeuipped, about one-third of our schools are unfit for human habitation.

We just don't realize it yet. We believe the rah-rah crap.

I'm sending that to everyone in my address book.

Thanks for the great link!

Looks like the US should be studying Iceland for ideas on just about everything...

... for just the price of a cup of coffee a day?

Ever read the news instead of watching youtube?

Someone FAR more qualified to speak on the matter than you I assure you.

The problem isn't the labor or productiveness of Americans- it's a lack of money held by people who are doing the work.

Funny that a few pieces of paper can bring us to our knees, isn't it?

Knowing that fact, you know that this was a deliberate crash. Here:

:popcorn:

Enjoy your popcorn and the ride- you and I can't do ANYTHING about it. Until we have a system that pays for work rather than founded on the idea of borrowing, this insanity will continue.

that's my point. The house of cards is in trouble....

Paying debt off actually hurts production. Tightening our belts prompts layoffs.

This system cannot be fixed by sacrifice- only by removal.

:rofl:

This is year #2 in the classroom, right?

Thanks to budget cuts, my formerly "safe" job is in at least a little bit of jeopardy. I know that if it's left up to my principal, I'll be fine - I'm really well liked. However, I'm very, very low on the seniority list so if the district cuts jobs I may be in trouble.

The teaching part of my job is going well; it continues to be rewarding - I teach challenging but smart low-income kids who deserve to have a chance to make it in this country. However, the daily reports of budget cuts in governments and colleges and universities make me extremely pessimistic about their futures. It's not fair to them. It's one of the reasons that I'm so frustrated by those who ignore all evidence and seem to revel in making snarky comments. For my part, I remain extremely postive with my students and keep my economic fears to myself.

Thanks for asking. How's your year going?

I'm a little burned out at this point. Looking for my "happy place", if you will. :)

I'll get through it, though. :hi:

country, then you're really too deluded for me to have any desire to respond to you further.

Wow, that's pretty deluded.

that we're going to become a third world country. I don't particularly know what to think, to be honest. I'm not one of those weavers-of-spells and sellers-of-things-that-don't-exist that we call "economists".

I do think this - we gave the Bush administration (those wizards of good government) seven goddamn hundred billion dollars for a specific purpose, toward which purpose they declined to use it today. If that isn't a giant "what the fuck moment" for you, then I don't know what to say.

I've never known you to back down from your positions.

But no one seems to want to.

First of all, this country is going down the tubes and right now there is nothing that can be done about it. It started back with Reagan where promises were made to get the American people to vote for him and the party. They said things people wanted to hear and not what needed to be said. Reagan started us down the road of we can have it all for nothing. The national debt went through the ceiling, at least for that time. Protections for the American working people were thrown out the window all for cheap shit from Walmart. It was the beginning of the end for the United States.

Right now we have no way to dig ourselves out of this mess. We have to face the facts that we have given our industrial might to cheap overseas companies. As Wall Street got richer the average American got poorer. We don't even make the clothes we wear anymore. Even though our car companies are located here much of the content that goes into producing them is made elsewhere. Right now our country cannot support itself. Think about it, if imports were suddenly stopped this country could not feed the people, put clothes on our backs, we could not go to work if there were a job, and we couldn't even make a phone call to complain to someone because even that is done overseas.

This country is done, over with, and the sooner we can realize that the sooner we can start to make a new country.

Think about what it would take to get us back on the road. We would have to devalue the dollar. That is all there is to it because the debt we owe can never be paid back. We will have to cut military spending and it will have to be in the hundred of billions. We will have to tax imports to make American goods profitable to produce. We will have to raise taxes to repair our crumbling infrastructure. We will have to research and produce alternate energy resources and that will take more money. We will need to update factories with new technology and that will require us to allow them the money from sales to do. There are a million other things that we would have to do to get us at least back on the road to recovery.

Now, look over the above again. Do you actually think that the Republican party will go along with any of the above? They haven't so far. What makes anyone think they ever will? And it just isn't the party, it is the voters of the party that will not support any initiatives. Why? Because for the last 20 some odd years it has been pounded into their pea sized brains that allowing companies to do whatever they want and cutting taxes is the cure for everything. All they want to hear is the old something for nothing that Reagan and his band of thieves made so popular.

I'm sorry, but this country is done, over with, and the sad part is the people gave them the keys to drive us over the cliff.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the majority of the population can NOT survive on minimum wage! :grr:

==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.1
==================



This week is our fourth quarter 2008 fund drive. Democratic Underground is
a completely independent website. We depend on donations from our members
to cover our costs. Please take a moment to donate! Thank you!

whether the government buys the bad loans directly from banks or whether it infuses capital in the banks to make them solvent again is sort of the same thing.

the only real difference is that the banks then do the work outs with homeowners instead of a government entity like the RTC from the 1980s.

I was concerned about the government trying to buy the bad assets, because they are split up fifteen ways to sunday on the casino we call our market system.

Time will tell