Big Three Bankruptcy == Destruction of the UAW in the auto industry

letting the Big Three go bankrupt is a neo liberal (free trade, unrestrained markets ideology) right wing agenda

remember Kirk Kerkorian?

he wanted to take over a huge share of GM stock some time ago, so as to force the company into bankruptcy

why?

because when a corp is in bankruptcy the corp can strong arm the union into accepting horrific terms

anyone who wants to destroy the UAW needs to take a couple of courses in US labor history

the Big Three must not be allowed to fail

they are an economic driver of the US economy

they've had unfair competition in the US for decades, since the foreign manufacturers came over and opened up union-free operations

The free market adherents in here who apparently despise all those lazy auto workers who make too much money and sleep all day, doing nothing ....

:sarcasm:

Really ... You are going to get hammered ....

Here they come ....

people here is when tech jobs are lost. That's the only 'industry' that seems to garner any sympathy around here.

I dont see it that way ....

I have seen concern for most all factions within the workplace .... I have not seen a stratification of empathy towards one work type or another .... I have seen a consistent support for unionization, especially by those who publicly profess their union associations ...

I personally think we should ALL be paid like autoworkers, and that they set the standards for worker compensation ... I dont believe the auto manufacturers are suffering from high wages and compensation, but from their own stultifying misconceptions of the marketplace and their willingness to cut quality standards to scratch out higher profits at the expense of quality ...

Auto workers helped establish the middle class : We enjoy the fruits of THEIR struggles from decades ago .... THEY fought for these rights and compensation ...

For the sake of our collective future: Is it not time to show our support NOW for the idea of a middle class ? ..... I dont see how grumbling about a perceived lack of support from one sector or another should stop us from recognizing the peril we face COLLECTIVELY ....

Auto workers have ALWAYS rejected outsourcing, and have been fighting it tooth and nail for decades ....

swear, I have not. It is one of the biggest things that surprised me about DU, it is one of the most frustrating things about DU. I've posted this very sentiment here more than once in the past.

I think that we should just let Wall Street and the lying thieves go to hell and bail out the working people in this country and I think that we should start with the auto industry. Because was stated very well in a thread I read earlier, it will cost us more if we don't save it. The death of Detroit will be the death of many jobs and companies that manufacture the supplies and goods that it takes the big three to keep going.

Heard on Thom Hartmann yesterday: govt buys the stock (a couple billion) then gives the stock to the employees, they fire the board and choose a new one from among themselves.

Bailout cheap at the price, industry saved and now run by professional automakers.

It's really just that simple.

For me, anyway.

What are you, unpatriotic? Every American deserves a shoddy, gas-wasting rattletrap with a close expiration date. If you don't buy an American car, the economy will go to hell.

And anyone who interprets this as an anti-union rant, you're wrong. This is an anti-American Manufacturer rant. You union guys are forced to support the worst car makers in the world, because they're the only ones who can provide you jobs. I don't envy your position, but I think you would do better to find something else to make in Detroit, because American companies just can't design or build good cars.

Look - even if they did go into bankruptcy - what is to stop the UAW from buying the corp and running it themselves?

It all comes down to price of where it would again be profitable - and a product that folks can afford. Sometimes it is bankruptcy that determines that. It is not the end of the automaking industry. It is change. This is not destroying the UAW. This is a possible gamechanger that has the potential to benefit the workers, who would now be co-owners and investors, and consumers, who cannot afford what GM and what the Big three offer.

I do not consider myself a neo-liberal, or a republican. But, to give the workers a chance at owning their future is only possible if NO bailout were offered.

Flame away.

Or do they just like being used as a poster boy for management?

But I found a couple of very interesting points on another site, whether this is true or not I have no idea, I'm just running it up the flagpole to see who salutes.

Slightly off the main topic, my brother is a grade-school teacher who teaches in a community just east of Toronto that is heavily populated with GM workers (whose truck plant is scheduled to go the way of the dodo in a year or two). He’s heard a great deal of water-cooler chatter about two things-
1. Honda and Toyota won’t build plants near the Big Three’s, because they don’t want to have to deal with the ex-employees of the Big Three- they tend to be the worst employees available.
2. GM lines and plants here in Ontario are reputed to be rife with corruption and outright theft.

areas of past unionization, or where former union members can be found

they prefer 'green field' areas, far from centers of unionization

as for corruption:

there's all kinds of smear campaigns against unions and union workers, most are pure lies

doesn't mean there can't be isolated instances of corruption but it's not typical

remember Nissan, as one example?

in Smyrna?

they drove bus loads of workers from other Nissan plants to the symrna plant to vote against the union certification vote...

they threatened workers with dismissal, etc......

they use intake screening to ensure they hire no one with any union sympathies

and, they set up shop in 'right to work' states in the south for the most part

It's the UAW's responsibility to all autoworkers to unionize these new plants and not reduce themselves to being toadies for the big 3, which I'm sure would love to shit all over them once they get their chance.

"right to work" states.

That's a euphemism for "union contracts don't mean squat."

The failure of one of the big three will cause the collapse of the other two along with the entire economy.

ALL, that is ALL auto companies will go bankrupt right behind the big 3. They'll just be the first. Then retail will follow. It is time to make jobs. FDR doubled. The government has to take control to fix what it has screwed up the last 16 years. The free market "ponzi" deal is over. The hand was invisible because it was never there.

:shrug:

Every time I see an SUV these days I think of this:

allowed to fail and reorganized. The MANAGEMENT of these companies have made bad decisions for decades, against the interests of their workers, the US citizens, global warming etc.. and have not been able to compete with the better managed japanese car companies that were ahead of the curve and make RELIABLE and fuel efficient vehicles. That doesn't mean that union jobs are out, or that the companies disappear. They need a whole new management, design and technology team, not overblown and out of touch marketing efforts and washington lobbyists that for decades pressured congress to avoid improving CAFE standards. GM had an excellent electric car (EV!) that was viable 20 years ago, what did they do? They crushed them and started making HUMMERS. I don's see how rewarding that behavior by giving them a bailout helps anyone, not the workers or the consumer. THey need to go into bankruptcy and be reorganized.

If the UAW had accepted better CAFE standards for American made cars, instead of siding with the company against them, a lot more union workers would have jobs right now. All the factories shutting down in the past year are the ones making SUV's and other gas guzzlers.

Other unions who side with CEO's to destroy the environment should take note of the UAW's fate. It doesn't help their own members in the long run.

This is the biggest problem. The UAW has former auto execs writing articles for their webpage. The foreign management issue shouldn't be a problem for UAW either. If they would work to get those plants unionized, then they'd be able to not worry about this instead of shilling for the big 3.

I will say it. The US needs to follow the Chinese and make it unlawful to discourage union representation in the workplace. China now has unions and if we go back to the strong union representation of the past the big corporations have nowhere to go and hide.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-10/21/content_10230509.htm

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/13/business/worldbusiness/13sweat.html

It took the Bush Regime eight years of hard work to fuck everything up to the point that the "neo liberal right wing agenda" can be enacted.

Mission Accomplished.

The UAW may not be the entire reason that the US auto industry is declining but it certainly plays a huge part. I am also against other unions that maximize the cost of the end product including the transit union in New York, without adding any real value over a lower cost or non-unionize employee. The auto industry MUST learn to manufacture reliable, sleek, efficient cars that that consumers will line up to buy. Non-union labor is not "unfair", it is the future of any US based manufacturing industry. US consumers don't want to subsidize the health care bene's and pension plans of union workers that sit in "job pool" room waiting like a jury pool to be called to bolt on some bumpers! Conversely, if the Big Three had more market share and had some serious demand for their product, there might not be a need for a "job pool". I refuse to pay $4-8K more for a car because the Big Three manufacturer is saddled with health care legacy costs.
Nevertheless, Hyundai, Kia, Toyota, BMW and other foreign originated auto manufacturers will grow their US manufacturing plants as they have been and will continue to eclipse the Big Three unless they can change the foundation of how they do business.