Joe Lieberman disgusts me. But Howard Dean has convinced me to stop fretting about that asshole.

I admire Howard Dean more than I hate Joe Lieberman. (But if Lieberman fucks us over again, Dems have to throw his ass out!)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/18/dean-applauds-move-to-kee_n_144667.html

DNC Chair Howard Dean welcomed the decision to keep Senator Joseph Lieberman as head of the Homeland Security Committee and, consequently, in the Democratic Caucus, saying the move was pragmatic, magnanimous and politically shrewd.

Speaking to the Huffington Post just moments after it was announced that Democrats in the Senate had voted to keep Lieberman as committee chair, Dean said the party had done the right thing by not giving into urges for retribution.

"You know, the desire of revenge is great, of course. But the truth is public policy doesn't run on revenge very well," he said. "And when you see the trouble this country has gotten into in terms of foreign policy, where Bush basically ran a foreign policy based on petulance because he was mad at, for example, Mexico, for abstaining on the Security Council when the Iraq War came up, if you have to actually run the country, it is best not to do it based on feeling of anger towards your enemies."

The Democratic Party chair, who will be leaving his post this January, went on to applaud Barack Obama for putting hurt feelings aside and welcoming the Connecticut Independent back into the party fray. He also predicted that the caucus would benefit from keeping Lieberman, who spent the past year campaigning alongside John McCain, often criticizing Obama and the Democratic Party.

"My point of view is that Barack won," Dean said. "He can afford to be magnanimous. And if we happen to win both recounts and Georgia, Joe is the 60th vote. And the truth is -- and I certainly don't have to defend Joe Lieberman because, you know, we have an interesting history -- but the fact is, he does vote 90 percent of the time with the Democrats. And no, he shouldn't have said all those things. But why not clean the state? Why not start all over again? Why not allow him to vote with us on the 90 percent of the stuff? He will be a good vote on climate change -- and this matters. He may be a good vote on election reform, which I hope we will get to. So, you know, he may end up - though it is a little against the odds -- he may end up being the vote that allows us to conduct business when Mitch McConnell decides we shouldn't."

They won't be getting any money from me unless something changes soon.

Wow, you're threatening to withhold your money on the 15th post! :hi:

I'm sure they're worried about it.

I think in the long run this will be a fine decision.

Lieberman seriously better not fuck us over. He's done nothing to earn anyone's trust but the Republicans.

In the end, Reid has ultimate control of the committees. I'm sure that there was a lot of discussion about bucking the leadership and consequences.

The symbolism here is huge. The rabid base (me) doesn't like it and wants Lieberman punished. But the independents and independent leaning Republicans will see it as evidence that Obama is calm and rational.

I think it plays well and has few pitfalls.

His constituents will probably vote him out in 2 years. In the meantime I'm sure they'll have him on a short leash.

I hope not.

It'll be ok

He is ineffectual in his chair and acts to shield Bush and Republicans from investigations. THAT is why we want him out. He works for Bush. Our Democratic Party is lying to us. Talking about what he did during the election is a misdirection.

If Lieberman is protecting Bushco, why are the Dems protecting Lieberman? Perhaps they too would
like to protect Bushco?

I do agree that the meme about "revenge" is false. Two teams.....same owner.

for being partisan.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/3071

to step down after one term as chair. get your facts straight

I dont like it, but I accept the reasons for it. You can be spiteful like the GOP has been for years, but it will get you nowhere. They want us to fight over this, i'm sure they are laughing it up that after being wiped out in Congress, they still have infleunce. This kind of argument is not helping us and being vindictive won't bring the country out of this recession.

in catering to him.

Aren't we?

Stop the insults with those of us who feel the party that just won is giving up.

Thats a smart choice in the end, sir. I am sorry that you cannot see basic logic for allowing Lieberman to keep his chairmanship, but despair that change isn't happening fast enough for you. Beauracy is a slow-moving sprawling mass and it takes time to get things done, but if you alienate some of the potential votes towards change, how is it helping your bottom line for brining about change? Please answer that.

Number one being that he was a traitor. Number two being that he is being given chair of a committee that has some power over the administration. How well has been wielding against the Bushists? Not very, in my view. Can he be trusted to be fair to Obama's admin? Not very much, in my view.

But if Howard Dean is advising not to worry, I will try not to worry too much. I can only hope they're not being their usual Demofuckingcratic selves, thinking the appearance of magnanimity will get them more than more treachery from Joe the Traitor.

We need every vote we can get, because the GOP will try to break us when we bring up Universal health care, cancel out new spending on a green energy revolution, and new supreme court appointments. I think hes a scumbag, don't get me wrong, but the end is what matters. A vote from him for health care weighs the same as a vote from Reid

Furthermore, if he uses his bully pulpit to obstruct Obama, particularly on issues related to the war, his votes weigh more than the average GOP asshole--or average Democrat's for that matter.

We are being kicked out of the country by the Iraqi's themselves. Everyone can see this, there won't be as much opposition, public opinion or in the senate itself, to leaving Iraq. Most people are fed up with this. Getting health care passed will be MUCH more difficult. And furthermore, if hes voting against us still in the war, whether we kick him out of chairmanship, he will still be voting against us in the war. Your argument holds no water, sir

It's a committee charged with overseeing the executive branch. Lieberman can make trouble if he'd like. He can ignore matters--such as possible war crimes a certain soon-to-be previous administration may have committed--that he shouldn't ignore. He needs to be watched very carefully. If he'd just been tossed out, presumably his votes would not change, but he'd have no power to set any agendas.

That power isn't granted to him as chairman. He already has ignored these things for whatever reasons, but we can't get bush impeached anyways because there won't be enough support, period. Either way you look at it, we need his vote to breake a filibuster or else we won't get the ambitious goals Obama has passed. We need to stop worrying about the inner workings of the Senate, they will work that out themselves. Just know that he will lose his Senate seat most likely next election for what he has done, and by then he will be completely obsolete.

Why wouldn't he?

the Attorney General must put that through the pipeline, Lieberman won't have say on the Bush administration. Government oversight only makes inquiries on the government in power, I believe, and are otherwise limited. Even so, you don't think they won't replace his chairmanship is Joey boy doesn't play nice?

What evidence have Dems given us that they won't let themselves be pushed around by Holy Joe again--and again? They should have just tossed him over and been done with it.

But I'm trying not to worry!

:evilfrown:

I am speaking from my heart, about where I see the party going. We are as tied to a certain country, more so than ever with Rahm's pick. We are getting the same old same old back into power positions.

To call people like me idiots is not very wise.

The change just happened....right before our eyes.

Good luck looking for it. If you are so easily disturbed by someone asking you to see the bigger picture, I guess you shouldn't leave your glass house

You people need to lighten up, we have seen what spite does to a government, haven't you had enough of that the last 8 years?? Get past your own selfish revengeful nature to look at the bigger picture, please. Its for the good of the country if we get help enacting Obama's plans and I don't care who casts a ballot for those measures as long as it helps us in the end.

for what that's worth. There was no pretense they were all buddy-buddy.

I will try to be too.

What will we fret about next? Oh noes!

dammit i'd rather be mad and stuff! There goes Howard, being all sensible. :p

Just cause Howard Dean says it does not make it right.

Even though the insiders scorn him.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/3071

We can not trust Lieberman at all.

now howard is a party man. your petulance never fails, but i get a kick out of your adulation being thwarted.

I wish someone inside would leak what's going on. This can't just be capitulation based on the faulty calculation that Joe's "90% with us" is a reliable indication of his trustworthiness in that powerful position.

Why do you think they're rewarding this asshole, madfloridian? Are they being stupid or what?

There's a place for him, but they did not even hear or read all the messages from the grassroots.

:shrug:

I will swallow my pride here.

But keep that fuck our of my sight before I change my mind.

:evilfrown:

The media will have a field day with Lieberman as David defeating the Democratic Goliath. How can they defeat terrorism if one old man can bring them to their knees? This is a PR nightmare for the Dems. As for getting rid of him if doesn't toe the line, forget that aspect. They can never get rid of him now. This was the only chance they had and they blew it because if they do it in the future it will only make him seem more the victim. Sorry, but I suspect this will bite us just as confirming Mukasy(sp) did.

These two guys are smart savvy politicians who I respect. Since they're both extending the olive branch
to LIEberman; I can only imagine that there MUST have be some important quid-pro-quo horse-trading going
on here. Such as Lieberman pledging to cooperate with Dem. Caucus on key issues and upcoming votes, esp.
in light of Dems likely picking up 2 more seats, bringing total to 59, + 1 (counting LIEberman) = 60.

You want decent health care? You want to close Gitmo? You want bottom-up financial relief extended to
low-income homeowners facing foreclosure? You want an intelligent win/win approach to saving the US auto
industry? We may only see these things with a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.

Just a thought.

So as much as I wanted Lieberman strung up by his teeny-tiny shriveled-up balls, I defer to Dr. Dean's better judgement.

Besides, Sen. Bayh already said that the caucus could kick Jerkface out any time he becomes too big for his britches. So from this point forward, Joementum is on double-not-so-secret-probation -- and he knows it. I'm willing to let it play itself out for the time being.

But campaign for the real Democrat in the next election in Connecticut.