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If Cheney found legally complicite in Scooter trial?

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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:21 AM
Original message
If Cheney found legally complicite in Scooter trial?
Edited on Fri Jan-26-07 11:34 AM by thecorrection
Does this lead to impeachment? I'm just curious what the possible legal outcome for Cheney is.

EDIT:
Just to clarify what I mean... If it's learned that Cheney gave this info to someone who then gave it to Scooter, will Cheney be impeachable? I understand the current trial is about perjury and such but more could come from it, no?
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. Probably not.
If it's found that Libby learned of Plame's identity from people in the administration -- not from reporters -- then Libby is not guilty of purjury. Hence, he goes free. Then, an entirely new trial would have to be brought against Cheney for outing the agent. By the time that even got off the ground, we'd probably have a new president.
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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks!
Good to know.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. No
If Libby learned it from the Administration, he is guilty of perjury, because he lied under oath to the grand jury.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. THanks
nice when someone responds to a thread that knows what the hell they are talking about.

Also we are gonna find out the Libby learned Valeries's real name "Plame,Flame" from Cheney and was sent out to tell Miller. That is when the fun begins.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Whoa! My bad. Misread this from the Guardian article:
"Her account of events backed up the prosecution's case that Mr Libby found out Ms Plame's identity from administration officials rather than from reporters, as he told investigators."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1999552,00.html

Anyway, it doesn't change anything with respect to the possible impeaching of Cheney. As I mentioned in the previous post, the outcome of this case may open the door for a future case against Cheney, but such case would probably finish up after the Bush administration is already out of office.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Incorrect.
Team Libby does not deny that he found out about Valerie Plame from several administration sources; they do claim that he "forgot" or "misremembered." Your statement that "If it's found that Libby learned of Plame's identity from people in the administration -- not from reporters -- then Libby is not guilty of purjury. Hence, he goes free." is incorrect. The case is based on his learning about Plame from other sources -- not reporters -- and then lying to the grand jury while under oath. That is the perjury.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Right. I corrected myself in my next post. n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I hadn't
seen that.

Impeach Dick Cheney!
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. It depends on how Congress views
the actions of Cheney....

For the executive branch, only those who have allegedly committed "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors" may be impeached. Although treason and bribery are obvious, the Constitution is silent on what constitutes a "high crime or misdemeanor." Several commentators have suggested that Congress alone may decide for itself what constitutes an impeachable offense. In 1970, then-Representative Gerald R. Ford defined the criteria as he saw it: "An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history." Four years later, Ford would assume the Presidency, following a vote to approve impeachment proceedings against Richard Nixon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeach#United_States
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
4. Cheney is not part of this case.
This is strictly about Libby lying to the prosecutors. If it comes out in testimony that Cheney was involved in outing an undercover agent, that could lead to action (investigations) in Congress.
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justiceischeap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's what I meant I guess
I didn't word it properly. :)
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. IMO however
this is where they will lay the groundwork for the conspiracy charges that will come later IMHO.
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madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. I think that Fitzpatrick is giving Congress
what they need to move forward on a serious investigation of the VP and possibly the POTUS. Given what is known about Fitzpatrick it should be safe to say that it will be a very detailed account of what happened.

We may just end up actually being able to celebrate Fitzmas!!
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Cheney is not part of the case....yet
Remember this trial is all about wiping the sand out of the umpires face.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. Impeachment is political, not legalistic
Edited on Fri Jan-26-07 11:55 AM by rock
Of course, it has legal consequences (the person is removed from office). Congress can impeach for any reason they want, but usually they have a "good" reason (one that they can sell the voters). That said, if enought politicians think that's important, they could impeach dick.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Not true.
Impeach is not a criminal process. It is a civil process. It is, in every sense, a legal process. The fact that the head of the US Supreme Court sits in on the trial is a pretty good clue that it is legal, not political.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Well, I think what he means is that...
it's handled by the legislative branch, not the court system. So, the impeachment process is different than bringing criminal charges on Cheney.

I agree that both are legal processes, but there is a didtinct difference -- after all, you can be impeached, removed from office, and still found not guilty in a court of law (or, vice versa, I suppose, though if someone was found guilty of crimes, I imagine impeachment would swiftly follow). Tradition has been that people in high office aren't tried for crimes until after they're removed from office, though, so certainly impeachment would be the first step, not the last.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Correct
It's a political, not a criminal process. It has legal consequences, as I said before. But the whole trial is not constrained by legal nicities (rules or evidence and such). It's not an 'objective' proceeding. In theory the Senate (which does the trying) could meet and say let's vote! Then vote. Done deal.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well it SHOULD lead to impeachment. Will it? I kind of doubt it.
Only time will tell.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-26-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. It could be used as a reason eventually to impeach him.
First of all it will depend on just what's revealed about Cheney's role in the outing of Plame. Then it all depends on the will of the congress. Right now they don't have the will. In 6 months if public opinion has soured (even more) it could be cited as a reason for impeachment. Don't forget Cheney is suppose to take the stand in this trial at some point and given his penchant for lying ....
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