A Boy Scout gets lost in the woods. - Democratic Underground

Squatch

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 03:54 PM
Original message

Poll question: A Boy Scout gets lost in the woods.

A few days later, a cold, hungry boy is saved due to the efforts of hundreds of people, the National Guard, a couple of helicopters, some really bad-ass dogs, a Crockpot of chili, and a blanket.

Should he have to pay for the rescue?

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

eppur_se_muova

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message

1. A minor? Of course not. The comparison to Mt. Hood climbers is specious.

Not saying how I feel about that incident, just that this is not comparable.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

dsc

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message

2. kids are always different from adults

I could see circumstances where the adults might have to pay but no circumstances where the kid should.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Atman

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #2

10. The kid shouldn't have to pay.

He's just a dumbass kid. But he walked off...if you're going to charge people to be rescued, make it policy, don't be selective based upon the number of merit badges or the income of the findee.

.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Atman

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message

3. Quite a double standard, eh?

But...but...he's a Boy Scout! Those guys on Mt. Hood were just stupid yuppie scum.

.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Lex

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #3

5. He's a child.

That's one very big difference.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Atman

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #5

12. He has parents.

I'm only asking for a consistent policy. There doesn't seem to be one. It seem based more upon the perceived social status of the lost person, as opposed to any real set of standards.

.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Lex

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #12

19. His parents didn't cause him to be lost.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Atman

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #19

22. Neither did you or I

:shrug:

.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Lex

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #22

32. Exactly.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Maddy McCall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 03:58 PM
Response to Original message

4. He does. It's called taxes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

WI_DEM

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #4

6. at least his parents do. I agree with you.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

supernova

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:03 PM
Original message

Yes absolutely

We pay taxes here to support our local emergency response teams. That's what they are here for. I'm surprised this is even a poll question at DU.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Maddy McCall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:08 PM
Response to Original message

24. ...

Emergency responders feel their greatest call to duty when a child is lost.

We've had to go out and do night river rescues of children who put in too late on the river. Nothing at all makes the job more rewarding than finding the kids alive--it gives emergency responders the morale to go out the next day on the more mundane calls, like grass fires and fender benders.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

supernova

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #24

27. And thanks for all you do

Maddy! It's a tough job. :-)

And it is great to see an incident turn out so well this time. Sometimes they don't. I was a bit worried because it's been freezing here the past couple of nights.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Maddy McCall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #27

34. I volunteer...

when I'm not at my "real job."

Volunteer emergency responders go through the same training, but our hours are limited by our real jobs. The guys and girls who do this kind of work full time are the ones who deserve the kudos. I can get away from it when it wears on me. They can't. :(

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Horse with no Name

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:23 PM
Response to Original message

52. I'm less surprised every day

:eyes:

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

LSK

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #4

23. Agreed

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

slackmaster

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #4

40. That's right

By the time he reaches middle age, he will probably have paid far more in taxes than the rescue effort cost.

Taking care of each other in that kind of situation is just part of the social contract we live under.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

AlCzervik

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:00 PM
Response to Original message

7. the government can pay for a bridge to nowhere, i think they can rescue a lost camper.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

leftofthedial

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:00 PM
Response to Original message

8. no. the yuppie scum who got lost on Mt. Hood (or their survivors)

should have to pay for it

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Maddy McCall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #8

13. You ever been in a car wreck?

Do you think that police, emergency response, rescue should only respond if the wreck wasn't your fault?

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

leftofthedial

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #13

31. I guess I needed that :sarcasm: two by four after all . . .

:sigh:

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Maddy McCall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #31

35. I misread your post...I apologize.

Can I be excused if I assert that it was rhetoric? :)

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

leftofthedial

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #35

47. you are excused.

it was my bad

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Maddy McCall

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #47

50. Nah...I was...

too eager to jump on my soapbox. :)

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

LSK

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #8

16. why?

Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 04:09 PM by LSK

Im a dumb yuppie scum sucker who sometimes likes to go camping and hiking in mountains too. Shit happens. Thats why we have fire and resue teams in our society. Shit happens and people shouldnt be banned from enjoying the great outdoors.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

leftofthedial

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #16

33. I was being vaguely sarcastic

REI should pay

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

LSK

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #33

46. ok

Wouldnt be the 1st time I misread sarcasm. Sorry.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

leftofthedial

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #46

48. I should have used the thingy

but I'm onto something, I think. Maybe REI should pay.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

NightWatcher

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:00 PM
Response to Original message

9. If I gotta pay for a war, I'll gladly pay for search and rescue operations

I'd rather a boy scout be found than bomb a family of innocent Iraqis, Afghanies, Iranians......

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Lerkfish

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message

11. the scout leader should, if anyone. They were charged with his care and lost him.

But I'm against charging people for their rescue unless flagrantly intentional to get themselves in jeopardy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

progdonkey

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:03 PM
Response to Original message

14. if the kid just honestly got lost...

...then he shouldn't suffer any sort of punishment. If he runs away just because he wants some attention, etc., then he should be punished in some way.

But even then the punishment should be far less for a child than for an adult who should understand the danger his/her actions are possibly putting the rescue workers in and the financial costs, not to mention the possible harm to the community caused by having all of the rescue workers focusing on finding this one person who should've known better instead of being available for other real emergencies.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Bill McBlueState

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:03 PM
Response to Original message

15. No

If you charge people for their rescue, people will be a lot less likely to radio for help when they need it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Squatch

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #15

18. You, Sir, have hit the nail squarely on the head.

Thank you for distilling this issue to its fundamental. :applause: :applause: :applause:

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

rocktivity

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message

17. It's not as though he's a skier who went off-trail for the "adventure" of it

Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 04:05 PM by rocknation

He got lost, that's all--and he IS a child. If anyone should pay, it the adults who were supposed to be supervising him, but even that's not fair.

Money isn't everything--the landslide majority, but not EVERYTHING. Consider the expense part of the tutition to The School Of Doing The Right Thing Simply Because It's The Right Thing To Do.

:headbang:
rocknation

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Colobo

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message

20. Not at all.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

melody

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:07 PM
Response to Original message

21. We already pay for it

As well as Barb and Jenna's security. I'd rather pay for a lost Boy Scout being returned to safety.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Catherine Vincent

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:09 PM
Response to Original message

25. Yes. Simply because it's the right thing to do. n/t

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

LSK

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:11 PM
Response to Original message

26. why dont we just make a law banning people from leaving their living rooms

:sarcasm:

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Cant trust em

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message

28. Kidnappings/missing children/lost hikers

Why are we all supposed to care about this? Is this always such a national epidemic?

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

LSK

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #28

29. yes, apparently rescuing lost hikers is causing our national debt

:sarcasm:

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Midlodemocrat

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #29

39. .

:rofl:

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

uppityperson

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message

30. Was he wearing a tiara?

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

mikelewis

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:43 PM
Response to Original message

36. Why bother rescuing him at all... wolves gotta eat too.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

David Zephyr

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message

37. No, I got lost in the woods with my scouts when I was a boy.

I'm thrilled they found him. These stories seem to always have a bad ending. I'm glad this one, for a change, has a happy ending and that he's home with his mom and dad.

I got lost once in the woods and when we were found (about nine hours later), I was so embarassed to learn that helicopters and search teams had been out looking for me that I could have died. Still, I was glad to be "found". It was dark and I was terrified.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Midlodemocrat

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message

38. no. he was camping with a group of people and got lost.

very different than risking life and limb on mt. hood.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Little Wing

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:50 PM
Response to Original message

41. No, the Boy Scouts should

They lost him.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

Greyhound

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:51 PM
Response to Original message

42. I could see an argument for making the Boy Scouts liable as they

are supposed to be supervising the scouts on these trips, but there is no comparison between the two cases.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

rasputin1952

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message

43. There are many people that get lost all over the place...

there is no way they should have to pay for their rescue.

We pay taxes for situations like this, and therefore have the technology to get a pretty good search going. Many of the people involved in searches like this are volunteers, they expect nothing but to hopefully find the lost person alive and well.

Things happen to people, the Coast Guard pulls people out of the water all of the time, sometimes under horrid conditions, the Dept of the Treasury doesn't send them a bill.

Lives should be saved, and the cost be damned....we are a civilized community

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

boston bean

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 04:56 PM
Response to Original message

44. I've been out of the loop, they found him?? nt

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

MissB

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #44

53. Yes. Alive even.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

gravity

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:04 PM
Response to Original message

45. Hell no

It's the same reason why we should have universal healthcare, social security, or welfare. The government should help take care of its citizens when they are in need.

Thats what our taxes help pay for. It's like insurance, most people lose money on it, but it ends up helping those who are in need of it the most, and provides a sense of security which is worth more than the money paid.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

MissB

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:21 PM
Response to Original message

49. I almost pasted an update to the Mt. Hood story the other day.

The people rescued recently (the teachers and dog) held a fundraiser for the search/rescue people.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

petronius

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:23 PM
Response to Original message

51. No, but his 'Orienteering' merit badge should be revoked

On the other hand, this should count towards earning his 'Wilderness Survival' merit badge, so I suppose it's a wash...

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

B2G

(714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 05:39 PM
Response to Original message

54. I am so sick

of the jackassed posts about people paying for their own rescue.

Is money the only thing that matters here??

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

mithnanthy

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Tue Mar-20-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message

55. They should be required to wear

some sort of tracking device. They could have found him right away. I don't know why people don't insist that all Boy Scout/hikers have this device....just in case. IF they don't comply with that requirement, then they could be fined, at least.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top

DU AdBot (1000+ posts)

Sat May 04th 2024, 02:17 AM
Response to Original message

Advertisements [?]

Top

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.