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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:21 PM
Original message
The Should-Be Most Hated Man in America
The vitriol against George Bush is well-deserved, of course. But I bet many of you don't realize who has royally screwed this country over more than even our delusion President: William "Bill" Kristol.

Bill Kristol has been a Republican strategist for many years and has headed numerous conservative think tanks. He founded the Project for the Next American Century (PNAC) and was chairman of the New Citizenship Project. In 1993, he chaired the conservative Project for the Republican Future, whose founding charter was to literally "kill" the Clinton Health Care initiative (not amend).

Joseph A. Palermo, of HuffPo writes:

I would like to remind people that in 1993 William Kristol circulated an influential memo arguing that any and all health care proposals coming out of the Clinton Administration should be opposed "sight unseen." He couldn't be bothered by honestly assessing the merits of the Clinton health care plan, he wanted the Republicans to just crush it to stop the Democrats from attaining any victory.


This op-ed, from a New York Times Columnist, quotes Kristol's famous policy memo's word for word:

The potential for Republican defection is a new thing. Conservatives have long recognized — and worked hard to prevent — the danger of a breakdown in party discipline. In 1993, William Kristol, then chairman of the Project for the Republican Future, orchestrated the defeat of the Clintons’ health care plan. In an influential memo, Mr. Kristol wrote: “Any Republican urge to negotiate a ‘least bad’ compromise with the Democrats, and thereby gain momentary public credit for helping the president ‘do something’ about health care, should also be resisted. ...The plan should not be amended; it should be erased.”


So what does this matter, that he damned Clinton's Universal Health Care? Clinton's health care plan was compulsive, which would greatly increase our domestic industries chances of competing with foreign workers who may get paid less per hour. Health care alone contributes $1500 to the cost of a Big Three vehicle, according to Kenneth Thomas.

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/dec/31/business/fi-autos31"> Here's a snippet from the LA Times:

The Big Three’s production cost in the U.S., including the cost of supporting retirees, is about $75 an hour per worker, according to a recent Canadian Auto Workers Union study. For foreign automakers with plants in the U.S. – without the same retiree costs – the average is $60 to $65 an hour, the study found.


Consider that for a second, thats 20% less per worker per hour the Big Three would have to pay IF ONLY WE HAD HEALTH CARE!

Lets look at it from a personal standpoint. Heres some information from the National Coalition for Health care

Since 2000, employment-based health insurance premiums have increased 100 percent, compared to cumulative inflation of 24 percent and cumulative wage growth of 21 percent during the same period.

Workers are now paying $1,400 more in premiums annually for family coverage than they did in 2000.

The annual premium that a health insurer charges an employer for a health plan covering a family of four averaged $12,100 in 2007. Workers contributed nearly $3,300, or 10 percent more than they did in 2006. The annual premiums for family coverage significantly eclipsed the gross earnings for a full-time, minimum-wage worker ($10,712).


Here are two of the worst stats for healthcare...

It is estimated that 50% of all personal bankruptcies occur because of medical expenses.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust, premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance in the United States have been rising four times faster on average than workers’ earnings since 2000.


The United States spends about 20% of our GDP on health care between discretionary and mandatory spending. Health care spending accounted for 10.9 percent of the GDP in Switzerland, 10.7 percent in Germany, 9.7 percent in Canada and 9.5 percent in France, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

That is a 10% difference of our GDP, in US spending that amounts to saving over $1.5 trillion per year. Think of the extra money we would ALL have, the less stress, less bankruptcies, and *gasp* even higher business profits.


Now for part two: If you were inquisitive, perhaps you have meandered over to the PNAC website. You might read some of the statements posted on that site. Heres a snippet that basically sums up what PNAC is about:

American leadership is good both for America and for the world; and that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle.

America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests.


Sound familiar, Bush Doctrine? Pre-emptive warfare to justify genocide is a summation of what I have read pertaining to PNAC. Kristol is nothing short of a warmongering neocon in the pocket of the Defense sector. If you've ever read his opinion columns in the NY Times, he has called for more military spending several times, and "fighting along with U.S. soldiers and marines in Iraq" means we should get into a war with Russia.

Billy Kristol should be the most hated man in America for cutting down what was our best hope at universal coverage and his cheerleading for the Iraq war, but he rarely gets a mention. I hope this will be rectified soon, the man is a political whore-- willing to do anything so that his friends retain power and get rich while screwing Americans out of life,liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cheney is hands down the "most hated man in America"
Kristol is a pathetic asshole, but even he is not in the same league as Cheney.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Deleted message
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I don't want them to "suffer" per se. I say let them sit in solitary
confinement for the entire time they are on trial then POW! Game over.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Deleted sub-thread
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Don't leave Norquist & Rove out.
Make it 5!
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I think three at a time is good. Anymore and the brain can't focus on them.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. One after the other will do. After a fair and impartial trial of course.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I got this perfect piece of real estate off the Cuban coast for them..
You know, just to hang out at, no trial needed. Make sure they don't leave though, k?
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Arctic Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Of course.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. Independent Tribunal....
for all of them... With a comprehensive public review of all their crimes... After that, I have no specific desire except an appropriate objective judgment and sentence be rendered.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I don't think any of us had any delusions about BushCo
Especially pertaining to Health Care. During Clinton, we had the best hope for it. He campaigned on the platform in 1992, got elected, had a slim majority, but Kristol had to fuck the whole thing up because it would "give Democrats too much power" and marginalize the GOP. He had done more harm to this entire country I honestly believe.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. Limbaugh & Hannity should be fairly high on the list.



They keep the lies and hate going out to the sheepies who will buy in to anything.




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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. True, but those sheepies don't have Congressional Votes
The sheepies who Kristol swayed could kill (and did) Universal Health Care. They are the prized sheeps, not the dumb electorate who listen to Limbaugh or Hannity.
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. K & R


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R You are right about all of that.
And I'm charged $1100 EXTRA PER MONTH on my mortgage because of medical bills. That's extra. Every month. For 7 years now. I think I deserve a modification or refi at a good rate by now. But instead, I'll probably be forced into a foreclosure or bankruptcy next month... if nothing's done by then.

I've known his name since the '80s and hate him already.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. retard?
really? not very liberal of you.

Not that i know who the guy is, but using the word retard as a descriptive term for a person is kind of an assholish thing to do. if he is an idiot, just say idiot.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I don't know if that is a strong enough word to describe
Bill Kristol. He is an the asshole to end all assholes
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. Good point.
I expressed my hatred of G. W. Bush in a popular thread a couple of days ago, but Bill Kristol, the head of PNAC, deserves universal scorn.
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camera obscura Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. He is human garbage.
It seems that a lot of people who used to take him seriously no longer do, but if there was any justice he'd be universally reviled.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. If Dante Alighieri were writing "The Inferno -- 2008", he'd throw into the center of Hell:
1. Dick Cheney
2. Karl Rove
3. George W. Bush
4. Alberto Gonzalez
5. Donald Rumsfeld
6. Bill Kristol
7. Rush Limbaugh
8. Sean Hannity
9. Rightwing radio generally

I'd have added Sarah Palin, but I figure Dante would've put her in Purgatory for the hope of redemption.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. Clinton plan was so unfairly trashed that the Annenberg Center did a survey...
and taking the name off the Clinton plan, asked about it and a few alternatives and it rated very highly - unless you identified it with the name 'Clinton'.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Never heard Annenberg did a suvery
You have a link to it? Was this FactCheck Annenberg, or just their policy center?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Policy center. nt
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. They should bring back STONING for BILLY BOY....squish his brains out...he is EVIL...like a CANCER
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
23. here's the real alarming stat on health care
the the US pays more for health care than any other nation. In terms of cost: We're number one.

the US ranks 37th in quality of care.

Think of that number for a minute.

36 countries world wide provide better health care for less than the US.

Yeah, a bunch are in Europe, as you'd expect but to get to 36 you gotta include places like Cuba and Costa Rica.

What the hell is wrong with us that we can't provide better health care but we pay the most? (A zillion answers, Bill Kristol is a big part of it. Well, and ppl like him.
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-07-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Yep, people should read World Health Organization reports sometime
They can find lots of information out, and its paints a pretty grim picture of how bad we've been shafted by our For-Profit health care system.

Heres the latest WHO report
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-08 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. what would our cost be if you subtracted...
pharmaceutical and insurance profit?
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Idealism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-08-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
29. Another example why Bill Kristol should be the most hated man in America:
This from his New York Times opinion page today, yet another urging for Republicans to reject Obama's administration (that isn't even in office yet) and their plans to right the economy, health care, and withdraw from Iraq:

President-elect Barack Obama and a Democratic Congress are about to serve up a supersized helping of big-government liberalism. Conservatives will be inclined to oppose much of what Obama and his party cook up. And, I believe, rightly so.


Sight unseen, oppose it. Very diplomatic Mr. Kristol. But wait, there's more. In this snippet you can truly see how it all comes full-circle, he says to not support a public works effort (like a new WPA) that would create civilian jobs, but instead lets ramp up that Defense spending and our poor under-funded military budget(WTF?):

Similarly, if you’re against big government, you’ll oppose a huge public works stimulus package. If you think some government action is inevitable, you might instead point out that the most unambiguous public good is national defense. You might then suggest spending a good chunk of the stimulus on national security — directing dollars to much-needed and underfunded defense procurement rather than to fanciful green technologies, making sure funds are available for the needed expansion of the Army and Marines before rushing to create make-work civilian jobs.


So let me get this straight: civilian jobs= bad, killing innocent Iraqi's= good? Oh yeah, and he finds time in that last paragraph to simultaneously shit on green technology AND keep his Defense company employers happy. All told, a win-win for Kristol. And the last reprehensible sputtering of this misguided tyrant of the day, found here show his contempt for public education:

Obama wants to spend much of the stimulus on transportation infrastructure and schools. Fine, but lots of schools and airports seem to me to have been refurbished more recently and more generously than military bases I’ve visited.


As if he hasn't done enough to influence us into an illegal, immoral war-- he wants to ensure that our plight doesn't become forgotten. He sounds like George Carlin when he said "Fuck the kids." Well Mr. Kristol, I guess in your expansive travels you might not come across any education statistics, so heres one I came across a month ago. The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development places the United States 18th among the 36 nations examined, USA Today reported Wednesday.

Any of you convinced that William Kristol should be the most hated man in America, yet?
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