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Obama's team: things are going to get A LOT worse before they get better

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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:01 PM
Original message
Obama's team: things are going to get A LOT worse before they get better
Interesting post from Marc Ambinder. Scary stuff, but I'm *cautiously* optimistic Obama knows what he's doing. At least he and his team recognize the magnitude of this.

It's quite unsettling to talk to members of Barack Obama's transition teams these days, especially those who are helping with the economics portfolio. Without going into details, the sense I get from them is that they are very worried that the economy will get a lot worse before it gets better. Not just worse... a lot worse. As in -- double digit unemployment without the wiggle factors. Huge declines in aggregate demand. Significant, persistent deficits. That's one reason why the Obama administration seems to be open to listening to every economist with an idea and is stocking the staff with the leading lights of the field. In one sense, the general level of concern among Obama advisers and transition staffers is reassuring; they get the magnitude of the problems, and they're not going to assume that, just because the bottom has never dropped out before -- certainly not in the lifetimes of most people doing policy these days, the bottom will never drop out.

Where the discussion isn't going, at least in public, (or the PR level), is the possibility that the first foreign policy crisis the administration will face will be the complete economic collapse of a large, unstable nation. To be sure, Pakistan is nearly broke, and U.S. policy makers seem to be aware of that; but a worldwide demand crisis could lead to social unrest in countries like Indonesia and Malaysia, Singapore, the Ukraine, Japan, Turkey or Egypt (which is facing an internal political crisis of epic proportions already). The U.S. won't have the resources to, say, engineer the rescue of the peso again, or intervene in Asia as in 1997.

The public rhetoric from Team Obama seems to treat history as having ended in early October, which is understandable; the priority right now is on the liquidity crisis, the structure of government and the peopling of the administration and the domestic economy. Most of the administration's major policy voices don't have the luxury of time to game out scenarios. Now -- it can fairly be said that Treasury nominee Tim Geithner, himself an assistant secretary for international economic affairs during the Clinton administration, is aware of the precarious state demand in certain critical countries, as is Larry Summers. The question: what's the administration's policy in this area? Which countries can we afford to let fail? Which unstable states would concern us the most? Is there something the U.S. can do, in advance, should do, in advance, to forestall the collapse of other economies?

Link: http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/12/its_quite_unsettling_to_talk.php
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Most Economists Agree, and it's better to prepare everyone. Some folks still think
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 04:06 PM by Mike 03
this crisis will evaporate in early-to-mid 2009. Trying to convey the seriousness of it all is frustrating.

An Afterthought: I completely agree with you that it's a very good sign that Obama's team is facing this so directly, unlike Bush and his "Everything's Great" crowd of idiots.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. How many years do you think it will last?
I hope that at the end of it we have a new economy, not one based upon greed but rather social justice and renewable energy.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. A formal recession may last 1-2 years
But job growth and overall economic growth could lag for another few years -- at least that's what the economists seem to be saying.
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I hate speculating, but if I had to guess, I would be optimistic and hope that
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 04:12 PM by Mike 03
we see the worst of unemployment, bankruptcy and foreclosure in early 2010.

The real wild cards would be: Price of Oil, Deflation or Hyperinflation (?), Will our foreign partners trust that we can ever repay our debt? Loss of confidence is a huge issue and there's no economics textbook that can teach a Fed Reserve or Treasury Official how to restore that.

It is a huge predicament. And it frightens me, to be honest.

One GREAT sign is that everybody loves Obama's selections so far for his economic team, even the most conservative economists.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Ten. This isn't a short problem. Ten at the least.
WE HAVE NO FUCKING MANUFACTURING BASE IN THIS NATION. It has to be rebuilt from scratch and I don't hear any plans to do that yet.

We still don't have national health so any new business is going to be blindsided either by healthcare costs or losing valuable employees because of lack of it.

We still haven't made derivatives illegal. We haven't seen any legislation dealing with default credit swaps.

Anticipate that any of that will be fought to the bitter end.

So while democracy lumbers on, and the Republicans do their best to make the nation so disgusted with the Democrats that they vote Republican in the midterms, millions of Americans will experience true despair, many for the first time in their lives.

Oh, and don't forget global warming. We are going to lose more cities, deal with agricultural catastrophe, and generally find that this isn't the world we expected to grow old in. If we live that long.

Happy New Year

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. We have no manufacturing base - yet we produce more manufactured goods than ever.
Edited on Thu Dec-11-08 04:54 PM by Hannah Bell
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Blue Meany Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. To be frank, I don't think we should expect to ever see
the economy as large as it has been for the last few decades, for several reasons. First we as individuals, families and as a nation we have been living beyond our means (there are exceptions, of course, but this is the trend. This is not sustainable, so it will end. But as we learn to do with less, as I think we must, this in itself will be an impediment to our consumer-driven economy. Finally, we do not have the resources--readily accesible energy, an industrial base, or capital--to quickly rebuild our economy into one that is both modern and sustainable--in fact, I'm not sure anyone knows what this would look like, because we have been trying to acheive it. Somehow we have to find a way to provide full employment and incomes that allow for decent, dignified lives for all without over-producing and over-consuming, which lead to pollution and resource depletion.

The changes that are needed are massive, indeed unprecedented. But, hey, I'm an optimist: we can always go back to subsistence organic farming, which is, after all, sustainable.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Sure. After ten or 12 million of us die off.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. The ENGINE of the economic freight train
has ALREADY gone over the cliff. I think it wise of Team Obama to make that clear NOW.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-11-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. yes, it will get worse--everyone needs to be aware/prepared
this will not be 'fixed' overnight.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. I have appreciated the fact that Obama has been very sober and fact-based in this crisis...
Unlike that *hole currently infesting the White House, President Obama talks to the nation as though we are adult citizens of this country, not nitwits who can be fooled with continual lies about Terra terra terra.

This is a very scary situation, and I want someone at the helm who will actually acknowledge what's in front of our eyes instead of going "Look over there! Over there!" while cities drown and our life-savings goes up in smoke.

Hekate


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