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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:29 PM
Original message
It's another.. "What do we do about the DLC thread!!!!!!!!!

This is the story!!!!!!

Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Bernard Madoff, founder and president of a New York firm that invested funds for wealthy individuals, hedge funds and other institutions, was charged with operating what he told employees was a long-running $50 billion Ponzi scheme in what may be one of the largest frauds in history.

Madoff, 70, head of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, was arrested today at 8:30 a.m. by the FBI and appeared before U.S. Magistrate Judge Douglas Eaton in Manhattan federal court. Charged in a criminal complaint with a single count of securities fraud, he was released on $10 million bond guaranteed by his wife and secured by his apartment. Madoff, wearing a white-striped shirt, dark-colored pants and no tie, looked down as he left the courtroom with his wife, declining to comment.

“It’s all just one big lie,” Madoff told his employees on Dec. 10, according to the government. The firm, Madoff allegedly said to them, is “basically, a giant Ponzi scheme.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=anWXzISP4XCg&refer=home

AND THE DONATIONS!

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?zip=10022&last=MADOFF&first=BERNARD

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?last=MADOFF&first=Peter

http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?last=Madoff&first=Mark

THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!




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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. Guilt by association
We don't need to use Republican tactics against our own party
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Veritas_et_Aequitas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. What, praytell, is the DLC?
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The Democratic Leadership Council!
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amdezurik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. relates tothe DLC how?
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Look at who he gave money to!
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amdezurik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. yes, and?
got a quid pro quo or just random accusations?
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. And this could blow up into a huge scandal! DUH!
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amdezurik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. coulda, woulda, shoulda
so you got nothing, OK all we needed to know
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. This story just broke yesterday!
Edited on Fri Dec-12-08 12:47 PM by Joanne98
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. You will see the same names all the time. This is the Corporatocracy
R and D and irrelevant, in reality.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Here's more on Madoff......

The WSJ fills in more details regarding the Madoff case, and it's actually more gobsmackingly unbelievable than it was last night.

For one thing, Madoff didn't invest simply on behalf of a couple of dozen multibillionaires; he had many common-or-garden millionaire clients, many of whom were introduced to him -- I'm not making this up -- through the Boca Rio Golf Club in Boca Raton and the Palm Beach Country Club in Palm Beach. Apparently the ability to invest with Madoff was sold as a side benefit of joining the clubs -- as ever, if you make something seem exclusive, people will clamor to get it.

It gets worse: a chap called Harry Markopolos has been saying that Madoff was a fraud in May 1999 -- almost a decade ago. Obviously, nothing happened, but Markopolos didn't give up: he wrote the SEC in 2005, saying that "Bernie Madoff's returns aren't real". But until Bernie Madoff himself admitted that fact, the SEC was nowhere to be seen. Others saw it too: Cassandra did, and, according to Henry Blodget, many of Madoff's investors reckoned that he must be a crook and that this was a legal way of profiting from fraud.

There was every reason to believe that Madoff was cooking the books. He posted regular small monthly returns, adding up to 10% per year, year in and year out -- essentially the Holy Grail of high returns with almost zero volatility. Even in recent months Madoff perpetuated the fiction:

Mr. Madoff's Fairfield Sentry Ltd., a hedge fund run by Madoff Investment Services to invest in shares in the S&P 100, claimed to be up 5.6% through the end of November, a period when the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index was down 37.65%. In October, Fairfield Sentry was said to be down 0.06%, a month when the S&P 500 lost 16.8%.

Now those kind of returns are very attractive to country-club millionaires: you can see where that part of the fraud came from. But it turns out that Madoff's largest investors were fund-of-funds managers, including huge names like Tremont Capital Management.

Such managers do one thing, first and foremost: they exist as an extra pair of eyes to oversee the actual fund managers; they're a risk control, and they're sophisticated enough to smell impossible returns like Madoff's. I simply can't believe that they funneled billions of dollars of client money to Madoff without ever talking to his chief risk officer (there wasn't one).

There's also the question of the $50 billion number, given that Madoff "only" had $17 billion in assets under management, according to his SEC filings. I see three possibilities which might explain the difference:

Madoff, falling apart, can't add up, even after including all the fees he extracted from the funds.
The amount of funds that Madoff reported to the SEC was a fraction of the amount of funds that Madoff reported to his investors.
Madoff borrowed the extra $33 billion, as Kaja Whitehouse suspects.
I think the second option is the most likely, but insofar as banks lent Madoff anything unsecured, they're feeling really stupid right now.

The one thing I'm sure of is that Tremont and Fairfield Greenwich are going to face some massive lawsuits over this -- and will suffer enormous redemptions. (Does Fairfield Greenwich run non-Madoff money? It's unclear, but it's probably moot; if they did yesterday, they won't tomorrow.) If they're idiotic enough to place billions with Madoff, they have no business running anybody's money.

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/market-movers/2008/12/12/its-a-mad-mad-mad-madoff-world?tid=true

Who is Tremont and Fairfield Greenwich?
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Message from the Fairfield Greenwich group.. lol

December 11, 2008

Fairfield Greenwich Group learned today that Bernard L. Madoff has been arrested and charged with criminal and civil violations of the federal securities laws. Like numerous other money managers and investors, certain funds managed by Fairfield Greenwich Group have accounts with Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC. Needless to say, this is a shocking development and we are working with counsel to assess the situation and take all steps necessary and appropriate to protect our investors and the firm.

https://www.fggus.com/

They're soooo screwed!
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. This story is going to be HUGE!

Well it seemed to me that the "split-strike conversions" were profit shifting bookeeping tools. Money invested in the feeders did obtain split-strike conversion positions on their books that had an implied "yield" equal to their return but it seemed these were pre-arranged combinations that shifted return back to the investment vehicles and were "phontom" positions vs. Madoff securities. In the interim, Madoff presumably has use of the entire pool of capital, to do what he pleased, plus whatever that pool could command in terms of leverage from bank lines and financing sources. It could be in anything and everything. He could be doing mutual fund timing, or mutual-fund market impact trades. Credit arbitrage. Funding coiiup d'etats in Africa. or buying GSCI commodity swaps. More plausibly, he could be doing option and index-option market impact trades since he was ostensibly at the center of market flow, or he could be at the center of a loan-sharking network across America earning 50%pa, and here he was passing a paltry 9% back to investors. Either he was crooked beyond belief or he was an evil contrapreneurial genius. Who would have have thought he was both??!!

Some crimes are too perfect. Some facades too well-painted to be original or convincing. A good hustler knows he must lose sometimes in order to win. THAT is the reflection of reality that makes it believable, and gives confidence to the punter who will shortly be taken out. THAT was what was wrong with Bernie Madoff's ponzi. The people who were taken - like the Family Office and many others investors who in time will go public on their fleecing - wanted badly to believe they were onto to something that was so good that they ignored the most obvious signs of bogusness. It just didn't make sense. It just didn't add up. Even Jim Simons earns it. There is no free lunch.

http://nihoncassandra.blogspot.com/2008/12/bernie-comes-out-of-closet.html

And in the comments...

Via Bloomberg:
Not everybody was fooled. Jim Vos, investigating on
behalf of potential clients, found that the auditors, an
accounting firm Friehling and Horowitz, occupied a
single room (13' x 18') in Rockland County.

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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It has nothing to do with the DLC
Unless you have a link that the campaign contributions bribed politicians, you got nothing.

If anyone should bear responsibility, it is the SEC which is under the influence of the Bush administration.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Bush's SEC should take responsibility too. Unfortunately it started way before Bush!
And hey. I'm just doing a heads up. If you don't think the thugs are going to make hay out of this you're crazy. But there is some good news. OBAMA isn't on the list. THANK GOD!
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gravity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. They aren't
There is no link between the campaign contributions and the crimes. And if this fraud proves anything, it is the need for more regulation and the failure of the SEC.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. YET! We don't know what's going to come out.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-12-08 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. Madoff: Effectively Unaudited

Floyd Norris asks, of Bernie Madoff:

I assume his funds' books claimed to be audited. Who were the auditors? How were they fooled?

It turns out that investor Jim Vos already looked into that:

Madoff's auditor, Friehling & Horowitz, operated from a 13-by-18-foot office in Rockland County, New York, a small operation for the auditor of such a large firm.

In other words, Madoff might as well have got a chimpanzee to audit the books, for all the checks and balances that Friehling & Horowitz provided. Which, of course, is why he chose them in the first place. I'm sure they were well compensated for not asking too many awkward questions; it would be nice if they, too, go to jail.

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/market-movers/2008/12/12/madoff-effectively-unaudited
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