How bad would it be if we recalled every military person serving outside the US?

And we closed all the bases. And stopped with the foreign military aid.

How bad would that be?

We could us the cash here to restart the economy.

Korea, Vietnam, and especially the Chimp wars were all useless wastes of time, money, resources, and most importantly, human lives. It's time to put an end to all of this horseshit, never again use the United States Military for anything other than the actual defense of the United States of America, and audit every last cent out of the so-called "defense" budget which is not used for that purpose.

I think we could recall military personnel on a costs/benefit basis, but a broad proposal is just dangerous.

want us thinking that cancer is dangerous and we better be protected with good insurance.

That doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong about cancer being dangerous.

Bryant

their own hegemonic fantasies.

We don't need to be the world police anymore and maybe we never did.

We interfere with their countries and put bases on their (holy)land. They have a right to their religion of choice just like we do. Their religion calls us infidels and forbids allowing infidels in their counties. To many countries and people, we are the terrorists.

trying to stomp out Homosexuality.

Bryant

and they want a religious government.

I'm pretty sure you could find plenty of secular Saudis and even Iranians, who are not as keen on a religious state. Should the will of the many trump the rights of the few?

Bryant

You think the majority of Saudis and Iranians are secular? hmmm With our democracy falling apart why would they want our style of government?

:crazy:

I also don't think the majority of Americans are Secular.

DO you think the Governments of Saudi Arabia and Iran are superior to that of ours? Really?

I am in favor of self determination - but i think that goes for individuals as well as nations, to a certain extent.

Bryant

I wish Americans didn't think they have the right to rule the world like it's some kind of god given right.

:eyes:

I'm not too concerned.

Their hatred of America is the only thing keeping the radical Islamic world united. Remove America from the equation, and they will go right back to killing eachother for being Sunni/Shiite. Which is the way it should be.

N.T.

...they will all need jobs! Those are not in abundance these days, and with the promise of bringing soldiers home comes the reality that the economy here isn't so sweet. A lot of soldiers are there for the money. It's a job that pays and has benefits.

Any savings we would encounter would need to be used to create jobs for those soldiers here at home.

such as infrastructure repair, running daycare centers, building affordable housing, etc.

The government wouldn't have to house them or send supplies all over the world, nor would military hardware get blown up and have to be replaced.

For one thing...........they will all need jobs!

The military may pay beans but the skills and training the folks who join get is worth more in alot of cases than a Master's degree. And once you add on the college tuition reimbursement, travel opportunities and free or reduced housing, bringing folks home to work at Target is in no way comparable.

It's really too bad that so many who join the military have to harass and harangue to see the college reimbursement money which is tossed around so cavalierly in those recruitment ads, though...

That's like saying that the only job at a large chain restaurant is cooking and serving food.

not make cakes and cookies.

Learning how to kill and killing people is a valuable skill?

Because that is the only skill that people in the military learn. How to kill people. And the military is great at finding people who already possess the skills to fire automatic weapons, pilot fighter jets, command submarines, steer battleships, implement the most complex soldier technology, and withstand 72-hour missions in the desert/jungle/whatever environment.

After finding these highly trained folks, the military then just teaches them how to kill people. I mean, what else are they going to do with all of those skills??

:eyes:

But your assertion is laughable.

To see things so black and white in the 21st century takes some serious dedication. Or medication. Either way, good luck with all that.

Sorry for you and all those that have no problem with war and killing.

And you actually sound like one of those people who is so rigid in their ideology that it doesn't cross their mind that their oversimplification of issues does them no favors.

Sorry for you and all those that have no problem with war and killing.

I could spend a second trying to find a single post where anyone has asserted in any way that they "have no problem with war and killing" but you and I both know there won't be one.

Along with disbanding the CIA.

.... particularly if we bring all our military back. Intelligence becomes even more important.

Early retirement ? Build bases here ? Would we keep them on the "military payroll"? If not, finding jobs back home might be a problem.



While the idea seems very appealing, I'm not sure it would save us much and more than likely would compound housing and employment problems here at home.

Just a thought.

Peace,
MZr7

overseas?

But they got a gigantic army.

enforce civil law, put down riots and to help in flood and earthquake damaged areas.

which would be the best proof they weren't needed.

It would show us to be stupid and belligerent! :dunce:

--IMM

but it is only mentioned by a few people in Congress, which is why I posted this speech from the other day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4643675&mesg_id=4643675


This was brought up at the debates, but just like the idea of single payer healthcare, there were no follow up questions and the other participants remained silent.

Instead we ignore, marginalize and label politicians if they say something out of the comfort zone.

:shrug:


http://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/27/chalmers_johnson_nemesis_the_last_days

"...CHALMERS JOHNSON: Well, they did not want to have their oversight abilities impugned. They weren’t carrying them out very well. You must also say that Eisenhower was—I think he’s been overly praised for this. It was a heroic statement, but at the same time, he was the butcher of Guatemala, the person who authorized our first clandestine operation and one of the most tragic that we ever did: the overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh in Iran in 1953 for the sake of the British Petroleum Company. And he also presided over the fantastic growth of the military-industrial complex, of the lunatic oversupply of nuclear weapons, of the empowering of the Air Force, and things of this sort. It seems to be only at the end that he realized what a monster he had created...


...CHALMERS JOHNSON: Well, I don’t see any way out of it. I think it’s gone too far. I think we are domestically too dependent on the military-industrial complex, that every time—I mean, it’s perfectly logical for any Secretary of Defense to try and close military bases that are redundant, that are useless, that are worn out, that go back to the Civil War. Any time he tries to do it, you produce an uproar in the surrounding community from newspapers, television, priests, local politicians: save our base.

The two mother hens of the Defense Facilities Subcommittee of the Senate Armed Services Committee, the people committed to taking care of our bases are easily Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas and Dianne Feinstein of California, the two states with the largest number of military bases, and those two senators would do anything in their power to keep them open. This is the insidious way in which the military-industrial complex has penetrated into our democracy and gravely weakened it, produced vested interests in what I call military Keynesianism, the use and manipulation of what is now three-quarters of a trillion dollars of the Defense budget, once you include all the other things that aren’t included in just the single appropriation for the Department of Defense.

This is a—it’s out of control. We depend upon it, we like it, we live off of it..."

We maintain a Navy to keep the see lanes open so that we can have trade deficits with China, Japan, Germany etc.

We keep troops in S. Korea to serve as a trip wire for N. Korean aggression, while S. Korea whose economy is so much larger than N. Korea spends far less on defense on a GDP basis than we do.

We keep troops in Germany for what reason??? Russian expansion when the EU's economy is an order of magnitude bigger than Russias. For that we get to run a trade deficit with the EU countries???

Why are we in Iraq???


The only conceivable deployment that makes sense is Afghanistan, and we are there because we were attacked by folks who were given sanctuary in that country. I don't buy the fact that those folks would have ever given up Osama Bin Laden.

How is it in our national interests to back stop Taiwan and Israel?? China has not destroyed Hong Kong so I think that Taiwan would survive in some form if they were absorbed by the Chinese. After 50 years I think our debt has been paid to that island. They need to figure out how to get along with their mother country.

The same for Israel. They have had over 60 years to figure out how to live in peace with the crazies around them (the short answer is that they will never live in peace with those crazies, but what benefit to us to continue to support Israel??).

We need a crash energy program to make us regionally energy independent. It is by far the most important national priority.

will get pissed off at you for suggesting that they should stop killing others.

:crazy:

presence, all too often we are penny wise and pound foolish :(

and I don't see the point in discussing something so far fetched. I'm more interested in discussing what could actually be done to reduce our force presence overseas.

Is that too hard for you?

:eyes:

no need to start a new one.

No one would be patrolling the sea lanes. Piracy would be rampent. No oil transport. No multinational trade. Famine in Japan, Africa.

Bad idea.

:crazy:

We patrol ours, India patrols theirs, France patrols theirs.

Et Cetera.

In part because the treaty we signed with them limits their military. In those situations it would be a serious diplomatic problem to withdraw our military, at least without an agreed upon plan that would give at least a decade for transition.

Japan has a 'protection' force (can't recall what it is actually called ..... but it looks just like an army.

The names of all those Confeds off our bases here at home. Seriously - if the Peace People in the Democratic Party want to shut down all of our bases . . . I want to change the names of all of our Domestic bases that have Confeds to those of Northern/Union Army Officers. ;-)

Thats a lot of men to get packed up, and machines to decontaminate and scrub squeaky clean. Not just tanks, everything gets "de-bugged".
Ever see a camel spider? Yikes! Don't want them buggers sneaking in and setting up camp anywhere around here...

:eyes:

stop-loss an opportunity to go home and resume their lives. I think we have enough bases stateside to accomodate the remainder who might wish to stay on active duty. Foreign base closings would save a pile of money, reducing military/defense spending. Might even allow our forces to be "defense" forces instead of policemen to the world.

Good idea.

Edited to add: Perhaps to accomodate the personnel currently outside the US it may be necessary to reopen some of the bases closed in recent years. If this were done with helping the impacted communities in mind, reopen the ones in the most economically strapped areas. If we must spend money on military forces - pay, equipment, etc. - it might as well be done in an area that can benefit.

... this would be a bad idea.

.... I feel smarter knowing that.

Thanks for your insight and obvious grasp of deep issues.

:eyes:

I imagine there would be many regional power vacuums resulting in a large number of localized power struggles.

... and offering them training in the healthcare professions would be a win-win situation if we transition to single-payer healthcare. Soldiers coming home would need jobs, and right now -- even without single-payer -- we need more doctors, nurses, med techs, etc.

I don't think closing every base outside of the US is a great idea. Unless you plan to let allies just fend for themselves which might sound great in a utopian world but realistically we might seriously regret it in the long run.