Liberal base, gays, outraged at rick warren invocation

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081217/pl_politico/16693

AP Barack Obama’s choice of a prominent evangelical minister to deliver the invocation at his inauguration is a conciliatory gesture toward social conservatives who opposed him in November, but it is drawing fierce challenges from a gay rights movement that – in the wake of a gay marriage ban in California – is looking for a fight.

Rick Warren, the senior pastor of Saddleback Church in southern California, opposes abortion rights but has taken more liberal stances on the government role in fighting poverty, and backed away from other evangelicals’ staunch support for economic conservatism. But it’s his support for the California constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage that drew the most heated criticism from Democrats Wednesday.

“Can you imagine if he had a man of God doing the invocation who had deliberately said that Jews are not going to be saved and therefore should be excluded from what’s going on in America? People would be up in arms,” he said.

but now that I know who he is, I am disappointed with his selection to deliver the invocation at Obama's inauguration. Couldn't they have found a more liberal minister to do it or at least one that didn't publicly support Prop. 8.

Especially the part where Obama went to kiss the feet of Rick Warren, virtually anointing him as the evangelical pope of America.

The one thing I ignored almost completely was the Saddleback Church event (I'm not a religious person). Yeah, I know many say Obama has to reach out to "people of faith" but I had no interest this "debate."

It was about Obama pandering to a religious bigot -- that was a telling issue in his campaign. Ignoring that meant you closed your eyes to a significant piece of evidence of where he was coming from. That is not "following the campaign closely."

He is a politician...that's what politicians do. Maybe you need to put things into perspective. I knew he went to the Saddleback Church but didn't remember the specific minister (I know...how awful). I didn't watch the event because I didn't approve. I heard about it on the news but I don't remember anything coming from the event that should make it stand out. I don't need you to decide whether I followed the campaign closely enough to make my opinion valid.

Some are very principled. The "they all do it" is a lie perpetrated by the panderers. And a lot of people buy into the lie.

Care to name some politicians (of national prominence) you think don't pander?

the only thing I saw was some faith thing with a cone of silence. Thanks for telling me he was anointed the evangelical pope of America..I just thought he was a religious leader of the right wing.

That might restore some of my hope in his promise of change.

edit: And I don't think it's just liberals and gays who are outraged either, I think just about anyone who isn't a bigot is outraged. And I truly hope that includes the "pragmatic" center.

a minister who is racist: outrage!
a minister who is an anti semite: outrage!
a minister who is a homophobic and misogynist: awww lets give him a chance
i can see what bigotry is still acceptable in america.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=100204&mesg_id=100204

For all the uproar yesterday about us outrage junkies - not too many folks are willing to attempt to disagree that the exact same Bible used actively today against a different group of people is completely beyond the pale but as long as it's just us queer folk, then it's totally ok.

of Obamas handlers sitting in a room in DC, with coffee and croissants. They are deciding who will perform the invocation at the inaugural.
"The unwashed masses that didnt vote for Obama, who are they ? anyone remember?"
"They are called evangelicals..they hate gay people they hate jews they hate blacks they hate women"
"How can we get their vote?"
"I know! I know! lets put one of them on stage!! oh yes, lets put one on there...oh my god..I knew I got that Harvard degree for a reason..now, what do these people look like? and where do they live?"
"I think they are in the south, they are poor, I think. anyone have a picture of them? someone has to have a file somewhere.."
"Well, its a brilliant idea..how about..lets see..John Hagee? they like him!"
"No, hes too fat..lets see...how about...wait...didnt Obama visit some guy named Rick Warren? Hes a pastor..lemme look..yesss...he doesnt like gays....doesnt like women being uppity...wants to covert jews....oh look, he really doesnt like gay people..hes perfect!"
"well that cinches it then...that should shore up the vote for 2012!"
"Okay I have to go, I have a power lunch at noon with my broker.."
"Tata!"

... afterwords we get him in here and talk to him about his stupid ideas. Ya know, Change his mind.
If we can get him to see the error of his ways he may just change the ways of thousands of rabid assholes for us and all we had to do was talk to the sob.

Now THAT is smart politics.

Before that, I was outraged about Furman and Goolsbee. I was "thanked for my concern".

So meh. If it's OK to gore MY ox in the name of "bipartisanship", then it's good enough for everyone.

So fuck us because people don't see corporatist issues as clearly as civil rights issues?

People knew that Obama was an economic centrist. And everyone knows that "economic centrist" means "right wing corporatist with a smile". People didn't expect him to be so brazen about something as simple as civil rights issues--not to mention abortion.

I am sick over Summers and Holder but I never expected the brazen arrogance of choosing someone like Warren.

The reality is, people don't know how bad Summers and Holder are. Not to mention the new education secretary. Warren makes it loud and clear how bad he is, so it becomes symbolic.

to the democratic wing of the Democratic Party, and a lot of people are little gunshy from being shouted down for daring to question how "change!" became "don't rock the boat!" so very, very rapidly.

<<snip>>
On Wednesday, the Huffington Post reported that gay people and progressives were not pleased when Barack Obama chose Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at inauguration. CBNNews reports that they aren't the only people upset:

So let me get straight to the point.

Liberals and gay activists aren't happy with Barack Obama for choosing pro-life and prop 8 supporting pastor Rick Warren to give the invocation at Obama's inaugural. But pro-life readers seem to be equally upset at Rick Warren for agreeing to it.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/18/pro-lifers-hate-warren-in_n_152042.html

please do not call them "pro-lifers", they are anything but that. Call them what they are... either anti-abortionists or anti-choice, or make something up. But don't give them the dignity of being called "pro-life".

I can understand the beef with Warren, but why wouldn't Big O want a prick like him to owe a favor? Warren won't necessarily have any influence over Obama's policies, but he will be indebted to being given his little piece of the stage.

What's that verse in Proverbs that mentions acts of kindness as the equivalent of heaping coals on your enemies heads? Just my opinion... :shrug:

That's the same thing the outraged right-wingers are saying.

simple, huh?

Care to explain this, then:

http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/504326.aspx

Why are the right wing extremists outraged at Rick Warren?

equivalent of right wing extremists? Talk about simplistic. Go back to your Obama worship.

anti-social behavior.

this morning by Juan Williams (:eyes:), and also was discussed heavily on Stephanie Miller's show as well as Thom Hartmann's show right now.

helps evangelicals to see him as a uniter rather than a threat, the decision to have Warren deliver the invocation will be a wise one.

I agree.

All this time, what have the fundynuts been doing but bitching and complaining and crying and whining over being so "persecuted"...

Now they have one of their own giving the invocation.

They should be happy, right?

noooooooo.......!!!!!


Now their complaint is that Warren is actually going to be on the same stage (let alone the same city) as Obama The Fetus Killer.

Give 'em something positive, and what do they do? More complaining. What does that make them look like?

Assholes.

My glee over showing those crazies for what they really are overrides any "outrage" I might be able to work up (not being very successful at working up the outrage, BTW) at his choice in the first place.

In the end, if enough overtures are made and slapped down, they can't keep up the pretense that they're being "persecuted" and maybe they'll finally shut the hell up about it.

that a sizable portion will. Right now, Obama is getting high 70% ratings for the way he is handling the transition. That number includes a bunch of the fundies, so why not reach out to even more?

As much as I hate the fact that he's not the Liberal I want him to be, I take solace in the fact that he is trying to unite Americans--unlike his predecessor who SAID he would be a uniter, but was always a divider. We are going to need all the unity we and President Obama can muster in order to tackle the challenges our nation faces.