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Would the Warren imbroglio sting as much if Prop. 8 had been defeated?

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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:40 PM
Original message
Would the Warren imbroglio sting as much if Prop. 8 had been defeated?
Been wondering if the pain/outrage over Obama's utter political tone-deafness over the Rick Warren pick for the "festivities" would be, well, less painful and rage-provoking (while still tone-deaf), if Prop. 8 had been defeated?

Warren would now be a somewhat chastened bigot (or at least, had less of a sense of himself as a "key player" in keeping such small-mindedness alive) and Obama's gesture might be seen in a different light.

Angels on pinheads, of course, but how big a role does the "loss" --i.e., Prop. 8 passing -- of the ballot initiative play in the venting of feeling over the Warren choice?
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think it has a lot to do with it
Because as you say, it adds momentum to the cause of these authoritarians.

Obama granting legitimacy to them just adds to that.

Even beyond that, it could be a sign of things to come...and that's the real issue here. Will Obama support the LBGTers? Doubtful. Will he support the fundies? I would have said no. This action casts doubt on my conclusion though.

Big things are made of many smaller things.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Speaking for myself
Yes.

But I want to say something else about this.

I MORE pissed off with the reaction in DU with the shitty remarks like "get over it", "move on", "You're not going to ruin this for the rest of us" than I am over Obama picking the mother fucker.

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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think supporters of LGBT rights have had a rough time for several weeks
:grouphug:
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. There was no question that the small-minders held on with a slew of shitty, mean ballot "victories"
The work now is to loosen their death-grip on this "wedge-issue..."
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MikeE Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think prop 8 does, as well as
the rise in hate crimes, particularly the Chicago police brutalizing that guy and the Ecuadorian man being killed.
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MikeE Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Then there was this just today
http://www.washingtonblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=23084
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Jesus. (Exclaimed in a non-Warren like context...)
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 06:14 PM by villager
Awful news.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. speaking as a WOMAN, yes. Warrens stance on women is an abomination n/t
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. in other words, it would be as outrageous even with 8 defeated?
Well, I hear ya...
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. yes, and prop 8 being passed makes it even more so..n/t
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Mike 03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. Only the GLBT community can answer this, but when I saw that Obama had picked
Warren, all I could think of is that this was another slap in the face to a community that was already hurting from those three propositions.

Just salt in the wound.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. the man's a dominionist, woman-subjugating homophobe.
just the person to speak for the "new" democratic party of "change".

no, for me prop 8 is not the whole story.

wrong guy, bad, bad choice.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I think if the idea is to have a ..
right winger included in the ceremony, any one would be controversial, a woman-hater, and a homophobe. But I think this man, at this time, is the most divisive of his ilk, which has added gas to the fire. I'm not so sure that the fire is a bad thing. It certainly puts gay rights front and center, and perhaps that is where it should be.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. not all right wingers, nor all right wing christians, are dominionists.
dominionists want a theocracy.

literally.
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Creideiki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. For me, the only choices as bad
would have been a Pastor who leads the anti-gay fights in Arizona or Florida--possibly even worse if it were one of the religious leaders who fought to strip away foster children from loving same-sex parents in Arkansas.

The choice of Warren is awful because of the anti-gay attitude--he got denied at the ballot box on his attempt to turn teenage girls into breeding machines, at least.
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mondo joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. As much? Not quite. But it would still be as assholish thing for Obama to do. NT
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-19-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. Since Obama is to be our first black president, if he wanted to make
Edited on Fri Dec-19-08 07:48 PM by MasonJar
a statement for the inclusion of all, why not a white supremist? To choose a woman-hating, gay bashing rightist is thoughtless. How would he, Obama, feel if Clinton were being inaugurated and had chosen David Duke? The old "walk in someone else's shoes" syndrone. maybe this will make him more cognizant of the gays/women in the future, but why was this hurt necessary? He of all people should have the sensibility to recognize the impact of such a decision. He is one smart man. I am very disappointed.
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HillWilliam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
18. It wouldn't have been QUITE the same
insult. It would have, to me, been "more of the same" instead of an out-and-out slap in the face. "More of the same" is something we've always dealt with. To be openly insulted after the deep wound of Prop H8 is something else entirely.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-20-08 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
19. Warren equates choice to the Holocaust
in specific terms. So he's also very anti-woman. So he would have been a stupid choice no matter, but Prop 8 and Warren's part in it, the vile rhetoric he spewed, and the same night victory shared by Warren and Obama made Warren THE worst choice he could have made. The worst. It looks like Obama is holding a victory celebration for himself and the Prop 8 crew. And he allows that by his parsing of words and stammering uptight delivery. If he's a fierce advocate, I'm a star at ABT.
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