I'm thinking of getting some chickens for my New York City backyard. Anyone else?

Mostly, it's just because I've had a very successful experience with my micro-garden in Queens, New York City, growing tomatoes and other vegetables from early spring right through frost. I had my last salad greens for Thanksgiving, and am still getting parsley and cilantro, which I potted up and brought inside.

The veggies were so much better, that it's hard for me to buy the store bought stuff.

Now I want chickens for eggs and maybe a few of my pets will find their way in the pot.

But there's also a small part of my brain that is thinking Argentina: 2001, and Russia: 1991.

Oddly, as long ago as last year, several NY rags, such as the NY Times and NY Magazine have been touting city chicken raising. Plus all these "city chicken" websites have sprung up.

Miraculously, NYC is one of the cities with the most permissive laws about chickens -- you can keep them as egg laying "pets" as long as none of them are roosters and they don't make a mess and you don't have too many. My local pet food store recently started selling chicken feed. Things that make you go hmmmmm... Do the rags and pet stores know something I don't?

If economic circumstances get to Great Depression/Argentina/Russia levels, I'd rather not be one of those people trading the family linen for eggs. I'd rather be the one giving away or selling the eggs.

Anyone try this before? Anyone else going to try this?

I doubt they will allow them

Now the chickens are considered "pets" so your dogs and Cats count to that number, but you can have up to four animals in the City if you have a place to keep them.

...although I think a chicken coop in Queens is VERY charming (and, yes, it might be NECESSARY)!:thumbsup:

Oh, and get them tiny little pollution masks for their beaks.;)

;)

:rofl:

Gawd I needed that, thanks :thumbsup:

You might be charged with animal cruetly if you do.

which allows you to keep them. It doesn't say you can't eat them. But I don't think you can kill and eat your dog, not that you would want to.

that apply to pets should apply to them. Thus, my thinking that if you eat them you might be charged with animal cruelty. Of course eating their eggs should be o'key.

That is sort of a grey area.

Farmers eat their pets all the time. It is the type of animal you eat, not how friendly you are with it, that might run afowl of animal cruelty laws.

Farmers eat their livestock, not pets.
And using your logic, someone would be able use "but my cat wasn't friendly with me and I wasn't friendly with it thus I killed it" defense to animal cruelty. Only it doesn't work that way.

Really, raise a few chickens and it will occur to you that they may not actually be thinking animals. At any rate you will never see a chicken show any sign of either intelligence or affection - not a chance in this good green world. So they don't seem much like pets as they head for the deep fry.

i think if you raise the chicken VERY early then it can have some affection and positive associations, if you have several chicken they just bond on each other, but it's possible for them to be a pet, i've seen it myself

It shows every extreme, from the horrific conditions in industrial egg and meat production, to the other extreme of a bizarre woman who keeps her pet banty rooster in the house in specially designed diapers. She takes him on outings, too.

Then there is my mother, who insists on making pets of every creature she encounters. I sent her a few hens several years back. She formed an attachment to one of the hens, when she had to nurse her back from near-death. Eventually, since this hen never fully recovered, she got rid of the rest of the hens so they wouldn't pick on the weaker favorite. This winter, she moved the hen into the house, convinced she wouldn't survive a hard winter by herself in the barn. She has a mini-coop in the laundry room. She doesn't walk well any more. Don't think I haven't tried to convince my mom to let this one go.

It's true chickens aren't big on brain power, to be sure. They DO learn, though, and WILL relate to people at a basic level, given the opportunity.

I really enjoy having them around.

I also like to eat them, which is why I don't cultivate a personal relationship with them.

Back in the bad old days when low department stores sold chicks for Easter, we always bought some -- or 3 chicks and 3 ducklings. That practice was ended in the 60s because most people's birds died horrible deaths.

But my Dad was a transplated farm boy so ours grew to maturity. In the summer during our vacation on my grandma's farm in Virginia we would often take the chickens to her as "pets" to join her flock. Each day, however, sadly one would "run away" into the woods while we ate fried chicken dinner.

:rofl:

Any way, I've seen many a chicken killed and one of the more remarkable things about the stupidity of chickens is that their behavior with their heads on is not that different from their behavior with their heads off.

That said, ducks by contrast are much more important and have much more personality. One thing I remember is that chickens take much more care because they are so stupid and will do or eat things that get them killed, while ducks are real savvy survivors, most of which would thrive in the wild.

Chickens are pretty easy and a good source of cheap food.

Could be a life saver the way the capitalists are running things.

I think raising chickens is a great idea! If your area laws allow you to do this, go for it!

We live in the suburbs and my husband said that we probably can't do it, due to local laws.

To tell you the truth, these bad times feel like an opportunity to me, to do really smart things. It's
possible that "bizarre" ideas (like raising chickens in your backyard) may suddenly be cool ideas.

I'd love to be able to do this, in the suburbs. I can only imagine what my neighbors would think! LOL

I don't know anything about raising chickens. It would be so fun to learn and to do it.

My advice is...if you are able to do it legally...go for it!

Originally, the burbs were envisioned as a kind of near country to the city, with gardens and chickens and such -- kind of early Martha Stewart.

Then sometime in the 50s or 60s, sterility was prized. Restrictive covenants in the burbs became much worse than sanitary restrictions in the city. My cousin retired to a suburb of Richmond and discovered that her covenants prevent her from even having a vegetable garden! They feel it would make the place look country!

It's insane, and I think you are right, that the energy and economic crises are going to make those stupid small minded restrictions go away, and we -- city and suburb -- will live in a smarter way.

they can really really stink. My boys when young belonged to the local boy scout troop and one of their yearly projects was to clean the nearby chicken farm coop. They practically had to strip as they came in the door shoes and all and everything went directly into the washer and they went into the tub. It was gagging time!

We had pet chickens in the 60s in NYC -- back in the bad old days when almost everyone bought them for Easter, didn't know what they were doing, and let them die horrible deaths. My father had grown up on a farm, so he knew how to take care of them and the grew up, till we didn't know what to do with them.

But I definitely remember the smell. I have a composter in my yard that I used for garden waste and kitchen waste. I think I'll have to get another one to handle the volume. And chicken waste is too strong to put directly in the garden; apparently it's so strong it kills plants unless composted.

they crow at all hours of the day :)

Here's a cute pic I took in Tahiti..at a local restaurant

everyone fed the chicken :)

I live in a far more suburban city than NYC and city ordinance forbids me from keeping livestock in my back yard.

They are poultry.

City regulations tend to be public laws aimed mostly at health and hygiene.

Suburban regulations tend to be private (homeowners assocs, and covenants) and aimed mostly at aesthetics and making sure the neighborhood maintains a "high class" vibe.

So yes, in general, suburbs are more stringent than many cities.

rural/farm. We talk about stuff in there like chickens, etc.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=268

I am of the opinion that more and more people are going to be growing veggies along with, in, next to or instead of flowers, and more and more people will have 2-3 chicken backyard flocks. I luv my chickens. You get eggs and get rid of compost and get manure for your garden and they are very funny creatures.

I want to learn this stuff myself, and DU's breadth never ceases to amaze me.

Hekate

I live in an apartment but would love to have a yard and raise chickens.
I used to live in Seattle and chicken raising was not uncommon there. However, Seattle weather is generally a lot milder than New York. What are you going to do about keeping the chickens safe during the heat of the summer and the cold of the winter? Also, what are you going to do if you go away for a weekend or take a vacation? Remember the chickens have to be fed everyday.

Good luck!

You don't need a rooster to get eggs, and hens are really quite fun (and funny!)! Many places allow hens but not roos. And if your city regs don't allow them, most neighbors can be "bribed" to keep quiet with some nice fresh eggs!

Here are a couple more websites in addition to backyardChickens.com
http://www.chickencrossing.org/coop.html
http://organicchickens.homestead.com/Links.html

Also, I have a backyard garden and a dog, and some years my dog gets ticks. I would love a chicken or two to keep the insect pests down.


Were you in the city or burbs? How many eggs did 3 hens produce?

LOL!
A fox got three and I replaced them with three more, a possum got one and then my ex gave me 4 more (three hens and a roo - bantam Japanese Black Tailed Whites).. somewhere along the line I adopted some feather-footed bantam cochins as well...
So now I have a HUGE roo (in the photos) plus 6 full size hens, and 4 bantam hens plus 1 roo. I just can't turn down a new feathered friend, what can I say?
We are building a sweet new coop and run this week. Seems my flock has outgrown the 4x4 coop. In the summer I was getting 8 eggs a day, in the winter it's down to about 3.

Twice I've found baby possums curled up in my empty garbage cans -- they got trapped there I suppose, and coon road kill is pretty common.

Sounds like you have a nice set up.

Do you live in the country, city or burbs?

It's pretty cool! He has trimmed the trees along the banks so I now have a VIEW of the river! LOL! It's beginning to "pond" but enough water continues on to keep the river flowing. Got to love it! Especially since the house elevation is about 50 foot higher than the banks of the river.

you need to have a very good coop to protect your birds, and someone needs to be there at twilight to let them into each night, assuming you allow them to free range during the day (i don't know how big your yard is)

also an area that is not planted, that is just clean dirt, think a kid's sandbox, is nice for them, they like to dustbathe -- chickens IME do NOT like to get wet

if you don't make them a spot to dustbathe, they may root up some plants in an area they like and make it a bare dust-bathing spot

adult chickens seem to do fine w. kitchen scraps, insects they catch while ranging etc. however, when they are growing you do need to buy chicken feed, i guess it must be difficult somehow for them to get the right vitamins while growing, they need some calcium/protein in their diet for the eggs

it is too much work to kill, pluck, and eat chickens for the amt of calories in my humble opinion, instead buy chickens that are GUARANTEED female (pullets) so you don't have to worry about waking up one day to hear a cocka-doodle-do

it's my belief that you can tell if they're eating the right diet because the egg yolks will be very dark, a sign that they are rich in beta carotene

raccoons worry me, everyone i know who has had hobby chickens has at some point been robbed by raccoons, they are really devious and can work together to break open a coop -- my neighbor saw a family of six (!) work on my coop

never ever encourage or feed a raccoon, if you see them, make noise or something in hopes of discouraging them from hanging around

and four hens means you start begging your friends to take eggs whenever you see them. Plus you learn to be real careful opening the refrigerator door.

I'd had as basically a pet.... If starving, maybe, but eggs, yes....

but I think it's a great idea. I love having chickens. They are quite fascinating to watch. I wish I could have them here - but we have coyotes and my cat is not chicken friendly. :(

When I have lived in cities - I have had hens. They became good, little pets and yes, I enjoyed their eggs. It's the rooster that the neighbors HATE. cock-a-doodle-doo at 4:30 AM can be quite horrifying to people who do not deliver the morning paper. :P

The eggs are so amazing it's hard to describe. The yolks are such a deep yellow, they're almost orange.

I think you have to watch for salivating cats though, and it might be a bit of a hassle keeping your backyard clean, but other than that, I sure would do it.

Baby chicks are very cute. After it grew I gave it to a woman who had free roaming chickens.

enacted a law quite a few years ago against anything like that. There's one elderly lady I know who still has her chickens because she was protected under the grandfather clause. Her rooster died long ago but I remember hearing him when we first moved here.

Frankly, the noise was pretty damn annoying. Also, I assume they were using them for fighting, since they were that special brand of ethical folk. Did I mention the heaps of stripped car parts that were piled up in their back "yard"?

I'm wondering what the cost of raising chickens is compared to the value of the eggs. In other words, how much will you be spending per egg on chicken feed, veterinary stuff, etc. I assume you will have to build some kind of coop, or at least a fence to keep them in the yard. Also, if the economy really gets that bad, you will have to keep people from stealing them.

Do you have roof access? People have been putting pigeon coops on NYC rooftops forever, so I can't imagine that a chicken coop would be more of a problem.

I'm not sure whether the local feed store sells chicks "sexed". If not, I'll eat the roosters when their sex becomes clear.

I'm a stickler on cost myself. I think it's counter productive to the whole green thing to spend more on supplies than the products are worth -- especially if the supplies include things like high tech plastic chicken coops. That said, from what I've read brooder supplies cost around $45 but half of that is equipment that lasts many seasons, and half is chick feed.

The problem for backyard "farming" is scale. If I had 50 chickens in a season, that's less than a dollar per chicken; but if I have 3 chickens, it doesn't make sense.

I'm guessing I'll have several groups of chickens over which to spread the cost. Eggs plus the roughly $5/per chicken value for meat compared to the supermarket might make it pay.

But it's more of (1) a desire for quality and hormone free eggs and meat, (2) pest control for the veggie garden, and (3) an insurance policy in case we become Argentina or Russia in 2009.

...there were many mornings when I was awakened by roosters crowing in the neighborhood.
The Albanians nearby had lots of chickens.
I'm in Brooklyn now, have a nice little backyard garden, but I wouldn't want chickens here.

Good luck!

into the ground to keep out the predators.

They are fun to keep and the eggs are great.

and am not supposed to have them but I live a bit off the beaten path so no one knows.
The eggs are wonderful. I had a new neighbor move in and held my breath that they would report me but they have a one legged rooster so all is well.

Most coops used by individuals are sized at 3-4 sq. ft. / hen with at least 1 nesting box / 2 hens. (avg) and a good sized protected run for the nights and bad days. I plan to let my roam the yard on most days, mostly around my garden. The coop is for their protection at night from predators and the elements.

I think you might be thinking of factory farms where the chickens cant even turn around in their "cage". Backyard chicken raising is much different.

Peace,
MZr7

but the eggs are sterile. You need a rooster if you want eggs that will hatch.

Only to get baby chicks, but not to lay eggs.

If it's safe and won't piss off your neighbors. Just don't have any roosters going off in the morning. :hangover:

Also, if you have a dog, that will be an issue.

your biggest problem will be keeping away predators.

put your fence line about a foot below the surface of the ground.

Make sure they always have water. Chickens shed their body heat through their feet. So they need something to stand in.

If your chickens are flopping around, don't worry, they are trying to give themselves a dust bath.

Chickens will share a roost.

best to have a flock. 3 or more. chickens are a flock animal.

are you raising eggers or cookers? Or both?

I have a dog, but he's incredibly gentle -- a golden retriever. I would have them mainly for eggs, but I'm not averse to putting the non-layer in the pot in necessary.

My main purpose would be fresh eggs, plus bug control for the garden, and I intend to get at least 3.

Commercially they are butchered at 1 yr since they slow down laying then. Realistically they lay for 5 yrs, but do slow down every yr. Our 10 yr old lays about 1 egg/yr but is the old lady of the flock and a pet.

3 months old (commercially), then they turn into baking hens, then into stewing hens. Yr back we butchered some 8 yr olds and ended up pressure cooking them into soup/stew. They tasted fine, but were tough. This yr I raised a few meat birds, got to 4-5 months. I had to see if I could do it, and did, but it was difficult.

and from what I gather, "fowl" is the local word for older laying chickens that are slaughtered after they stop laying as compared to fryers.

Surprisingly, fowl is more expensive than fryers because they have more flavor.

Pretty much all you will find at the local supermarket are "fryers" which are primarily young hens. I haven't seen a "boiler" (older chicken) in a US supermarket in many years. That's because most people prefer cooking methods that favor younger, more tender chickens. In Europe, this is certainly not the case. One of the most popular dishes in France is Coq au Vin (literally cock with wine) in which an older rooster is prepared by stewing in wine for hours. It's the tastiest chicken you'll ever have.

A female friend of mine from France came over for a visit and I was trying to explain to her some of the finer points of English connotation. So she asked, "you mean I should not to go a restaurant in the US and say, 'I would like to eat cock?'" I almost Bushed myself on a pretzel.

But I digress. Growing up on a farm we always threw the old hens who would no longer lay eggs into the stew pot. They were quite tasty. Ours were all free range in the truest sense and not what commercialized growers call free range these days. The eggs tasted much better also.

My flock survives HARSH winter conditions. We've been down to -12 this month. While they free-range, they have a coop to roost in at night. The coop has windows, so it's as cold in there as outside.

I have water heaters for them, but those aren't effective when it gets below 10 degrees. Then I carry hot water out to them every day.

Golden retrievers will chase chickens. That instinct is hard to overcome. They are bred to retrieve birds.

My dog lives peacefully with chickens. I credit that to two things:

1. She's an aussie; a herding dog, and the flock is part of her "herd." She doesn't chase the herd. At the most, she will move to cut them off at the pass.

2. The chickens were established when I brought her home as a puppy. For the first 6 months, she wasn't loose with them, but she visited every day, and the leader of the pack, me, made it clear that they were off limits. After a couple of months of letting her loose with them when I was home, I quit worrying about them. She did bathe a couple of the hens pretty regularly, but they let her. They did NOT let her be first at the gate to greet me when I got home, lol. Early conditioning, when the birds were "senior" to her, and bigger than she was, made a difference.

I finally had to ask my mom to stop bringing her golden to visit. She liked to bring him, since I have 6 acres for him to run on. The chickens free-range, though, and he wouldn't leave them alone. After a couple of near-misses, she stopped bringing him.

It sounds like you will need a coop and a small enclosed (including wire roof) yard space for them. You can let them out to free-range when you are home, when the dog is indoors or leashed, etc..

...he was always coughing. Non-smoker. Developed histoplasmosis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoplasmosis

if you are raising your chickens for tyson or under another contract, and have a large number of chickens, then you need to take precautions to protect your respiratory system

i am skeptical that much harm could come from using well-aged chicken droppings in one's garden, if one only has 3 or 4 chickens

if our lungs were that delicate, we'd all be dead already from something else frankly

just my opinion not medical advice

an easy way to use the droppings, and not do a lot of digging, is to have a portable type coop and to move the garden from year to year, i had a wonderful crop of greens over a spot where i previously had chickens and i did not come down w. any obscure diseases

I expect the trees to be very happy in soil fertilized for 8 yrs by chickens. I haven't decided what else to grow there this yr, maybe squash or pumpkins. Something that the deer and slugs will leave alone and will grow between the trees. I'd considered corn (what with the well fertilized ground) but have concerns about deer. Though if the deer had something good to eat, maybe they'd leave the fruit trees alone?

I had a large garden and sometimes used chicken manure but it was diluted and well watered immediately on application.

With 4 chickens you should have no problem but when cleaning up after them you should use a mask.

These guys are HUGH and got a mean streak. Neighborhood cat's don't even think of messing with them. Though I heard the rooster a few times, I've never seen him.

He must be so bad-ass they don't let him out.

Just the thought of waking up in the Bronx, to the sound of a rooster, is hilarious!

I love this thread.

It makes me want to move into the country! So tired of my suburban parcel with covenants up the ying yang.

"Hey Maria! Get your fat ass downstairs already!"

Never a dull moment. Come on over. You don't have to be crazy to live here, but it couldn't hurt.

your city limits first. Also, the neighbors might not appreciate the rooster alarm clock in the morning.

that you will never eat store-bought eggs again.

The difference is appalling. Fresh eggs from home raised chickens are fresh, rich, and luscious, making a mockery of the pale, stale factory eggs bought at the grocery store. Just don't plan to boil them. Fresh eggs are just about impossible to peel, and not worth boiling unless you only need the yokes.

I kept 4 hens at a house in town once, in CA. It was illegal. My excuse? The house came with the hens. ;)

The house was next door to 25 abandoned acres that had once been a turkey farm, before rezoning to residential. The area had since been zoned commercial; there was a truck yard across the street. With only one neighbor on the other side, and a back alley separating me from the rest of the residential section, nobody ever reported me.

I had a fence around the entire perimeter, including the front, and the hens never tried to get over the shorter fence in front. They'd been raised there, and their wings clipped from the beginning, so that they never knew they COULD fly out, even though I lived there 5 years and never clipped them.

They free-ranged around the yard, eating bugs as well as what I fed them, and kept me supplied with eggs. I haven't been without a flock since.

My dog, who came as a puppy and was raised with them, shared the yard with them peacefully, and shared my 6 acres with a bigger flock now.

How much space do you have for them?

Small, easy to care for, and great eggs.

they can probably do fine with the bugs they find..& the scraps of people food to give them...

When my friend had chickens (until the wolves & coyotes found out :cry:..) she rarely supplemented their diet:)

a couple of cute little goats for milk sure would come in handy. Hey, I'd even learn how to make cheese. Do you think the neighbors would mind?

They are living inside right now while the coop is being built and they mature. Looking forward to moving them outside late Feb and eggs in the spring (plus bug control and free fertilizer for the garden).

The three that survived the first 48 hrs were all Cochins (one blue and two black named Lacy, Lulu, and Loretta). The two that didn't were both Orpingtons.

It should be interesting to see how long I can "fly" under the radar of the HOA in my suburban neighborhood.

Peace,
MZr7

up close and personal. They can be pretty gross! I can't remember how I know this.

Both provide eggs and meat. Bantams can hold their own with an alley cat and a quail run on the porch will keep the apartment pest free...bugs find their way there and end up eaten.

Bantams, whether dominated by a rooster or a biddy-hen will give a lot of insight into the term "raptor." Aggression is a deterrent regardless of the size of the perp, they're made for NYC.

Bantams have been known to break the glass from a porch door, because they saw their reflection in it. No one has ever accused them of being smart.

I am considering it too. But I am rural. :hi: