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douglas9 Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 08:16 AM
Original message
Teacher terminated over marriage
Less than a week before Marquis LaFortune was supposed to marry her fiance, the principal of the downtown Catholic high school where she worked as an English teacher called her into his office to warn that a “scandal” was looming.

The scandal, the deacon informed the bride-to-be, was her coming marriage.

LaFortune married anyway, but now she's the one who feels scandalized. Fired from Central Catholic High School for the Nov. 22 wedding, the 25-year-old has filed a complaint with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and wants to sue the school.

The reason for her termination turns on a theological tenet. According to Catholic doctrine, participants in a marriage must be an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. LaFortune told the principal that her fiance had been divorced — a proceeding not recognized by the Catholic Church.

http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Teacher+terminated+over+marriage&expire=&urlID=33347259&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mysanantonio.com%2Fnews%2FCentral_Catholic_teacher_terminated_over_marriage.html&partnerID=345939
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hil-fucking-arious.
A teacher marries a divorced man, she loses her job.

A priest buggers little boys, and he gets transferred to a new job and fresh victims.

Great priorities there, Popey.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. The world is having acid flashbacks to 1959
:(
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. But without
the enlightenment that acid can sometimes bring.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Dogma! Ain't it wonderful.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. What happend in NY
There was a similar situation some years ago involving two teachers who were fired. One teacher divorced and remarried. Another teacher got a vasectomy. The HS students went on a strike and walked out. The parents struck with their wallets and refused to pay tuition until the teachers were rehired. It made the local news with cameras showing the students picketing outside. The school got a lot of very bad publicity. As one parent's interviewed said there are families of students in this school who have been divorced and remarried. Another said if they suspended every student whose parents practiced "artifical" birth control, there would be nobody left in the school.

Apparently, all these things were in a "morals" clause that the teachers had to sign. The outcome was that the school eliminated the morals clause. The teachers were rehired.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. I went to that school for 2 years
and I know people that have boys there now. Central would do well to take care of it's drug problems and gang problems before worrying about this. Central touts itself as this wonderful exclusive school where you can get a wonderful education. When I went there there were organized theft and drug rings. I have a nephew that went there for 2 years and left because of the gangs and drugs. It hasn't changed one bit. And even though the administration has changed people, it's not changed one iota.
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. It depends on whether the divorced man was married in the Catholic Church
Edited on Tue Dec-30-08 09:04 AM by StopThePendulum
If he was previously married by a justice of the peace (a civil ceremony) without the benefit of a Church wedding, in the eyes of the Catholic Church, it was just legalized cohabitation. He may have been married in the eyes of the law, but not in the Church.

On the other hand, if he was married in the Church and divorced afterwards, he's no longer married legally, but is still married to his first wife, until and unless the marriage is declared null and void. The article reads he is seeking an annulment, which means the marriage was never valid in the first place.

Let's just put it this way: this is a Catholic high school which accepts no funding from the government. The rules of the Church, not those of the state, apply. Since the Catholic Church deals with divorce and remarriage as adultery, the school is right in firing her. If the teacher were male and he married a divorced woman, he'd be fired, too. No meshing of church and state in this case. People who work for the Church are held to a more conservative behavioral standard than society at large would hold them.

Another thing: she was raised Catholic, but left the Church for a nondenominational church with her fiance. That means she's an ex-Catholic presenting herself as Catholic. The Church doesn't suffer liars gladly.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. You seem to know your stuff...
...so I hope it's ok to ask a question.

You mentioned that Catholics do not recognize civil ceremonies as legitimiate--in the eyes of the Church.

Do other religions feel the same way? Do Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists or other religions take this stance?

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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. No. I think the problem is that the Catholic church views marriage as a sacrament.
Protestants do not.

Is Marriage a Sacrament?

For Catholics and Orthodox Christians, yes. For Protestants, no. Here's why.

It is generally agreed that sacraments origninate in the Bible, and in particular in the words and deeds of Jesus.

Christians universally agree that Baptism and Communion (or the Eurcharist) were specifically initated by Christ. Jesus himself was baptized by John and he advised his disciples to do likewise. Jesus also presided at the Last Supper and at that time he instructed his disciples to repeat the ritual of the breaking of bread and the sharing of wine "in remembrance of me." In a very real sense the New Testament documents the emergence of these two, specifically Christian rituals.

Baptism and Communion were central and distinguishing marks of the Christian church from the time of Jesus forward.

Marriage has a far more complicated history.


More at the link.
http://www.godweb.org/marriageasacrament.htm

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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. I don't know much about Protestant religions
but I do know the Catholic Church is very conservative in sexually-related matters, something that irks social liberals. It all has to do with the relationship between Christ and the Church, a matter of faith beyond human understanding.
The best analogy I can come up with is surgery to separate twins who share vital organs such as a heart. You cannot separate them without it resulting in the death of one, if not both, twins.
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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I agree with your premise..
As a former catholic, I think your totally correct on the annulment aspect. But, my issue here is in the fact that MANY MANY catholics do this.. they divorce, don't seek annulment, and re-marry. I don't think that every Catholic institution fires their employees for this.. there is no black or white line. Further, with her saying that she's no longer catholic (and that not being a requirment to be an employee), it seems as though this institution had some sort of agenda (or perhaps vendetta) against this woman who according to the article was a good teacher.

I don't think it would be a problem to fire her if it was common practice - but it appears as though it's not. They're going to be in trouble when she finds 5 other couples who are catholic, remarried, and work for a catholic institution but were not fired.

I also think State Employment laws may come into place here - and I don't know if it mentioned what state she lives in. Places like CA are much more tough on this kind of thing then other states. I understand that it's a Religious institution that doesn't take tax dollars - but I would think that they would still have to not discriminate based on race, religion, handicap, etc. If she claims that she's no longer catholic, but was fired for not following catholic rules - that could possibly be considered discrimination based on religion?

I'm guessing here... but more importantly.. the Catholic Church just figured out another way to get negative press into the headlines, and drive away more young people who are lax about this kind of thing. Not smart if you're trying to grow your congrigation instead of shrink it - but I'm not sure if Benedict is even concerned about growing the church... his strict rules seem to be more important to him - and that surely will continue the church's decline in North America.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. My Mother Works For The Diocesan Tribunal
They are the cannon lawyers (she's a transcriptionist, still working at 75) who hear testimony and make decisions based upon cannon law to grant dissolution of marriage.

It's not a legal action in any way, but it allows people married before, even in the church, to remarry in the "good graces" of the church.

The cost is nominal, and is means based. (The less you make the less you pay.) They even do it pro bono for people of low income.

To me it's a weird little deal they've got going, but there is an established protocol for catholics who want to get remarried to do so in the church.
GAC
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. If you read to the end of te harticle, you will find the ex-wife sought and obtained an annulment
Just wanted to point that out.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. It's still stupid, no matter how perfectly Catholic it is.
nt

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RoadRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. 1 of over 10,000 reasons I am no longer Catholic
I hope this church gets sued for a LOT of money. You don't get to pick & choose who you decide to hold rules against... and I know several people (my PARENTS) who worked for Catholic institutions after their divorce, and my dad re-married 3 years later (but didn't get an annulment until 6 years after the 2nd marriage).

This rule is idiotic anyway... this "annulment" basically says that the marriage never existed, hence my brother & I are just bastards. :eyes: If I even cared slightly about the Catholic Church this might matter... but instead I just throw it on top of the pile of "Reasons I'll never set foot into a Catholic Church except for Weddings and Funerals".

According to this story, this woman was a great teacher. It appears as though those are hard to come by.. i'm glad to see the Church is keeping on its idiotic path of politics before common sense. But, they do it every day in all aspects of life- so why would this be any different.

I hope the pedophile fund has a million or two left over for this lady.. how horrible.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
9. After 11 years of Catholic School I find that shocking.
Edited on Tue Dec-30-08 09:56 AM by YOY
We had a religion teacher that was gay. He was a bit of a pompous ass but the man was obviously gay. Never fired him for that. We also had a Jewish teacher (Trigonometry.)

I also think we had a few teachers that at least one MUST have had a divorce in the past.

This school is run by hardlining dicks, methinks....or there is more to the story.
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PRETZEL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
10. I got the impression that they were more upset that she left the church
than anything. Although I'm not Catholic my first wife was and my two kids are still practicing Catholics. They also went to Catholic school for the first 8 years. The one thing that the parish they went to stressed more than anything was practicing the faith and being involved with the parish. It seems to me that when she decided to leave the parish and attend another, non-denominational church, that was more of a slap in the face than anything.

I really think that the school's administration used the lack of annulment as a cover for the real reasons they wanted to get rid of her. I'd bet the house that if she was still active and that her fiance was also active in the church then they would have been able to have a ceremony (without mass) and everything would have been fine.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
12. More anti-family nonsense from the makers of centuries of Fail. n/t
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. Catholic school. She has no case.
Edited on Tue Dec-30-08 11:44 AM by WinkyDink
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Especially if this is true
“Do you know what the definition of scandal is?” Pontolillo said in a phone interview. “If I present myself as Catholic to an institution that's Catholic, and I practice that Catholicism in the institution by attending school Masses and receiving communion and then suddenly make a decision that is published that (I am) now going to go against that Catholicism.”


If she were receiving she is indicating in a Catholic education setting that she is practicing the faith and considers herself in good standing with the church. If she had left the church all she had to do was inform them that she is no longer a practicing Catholic and she would be subject to a different set of employment requirements.

The process of annulment is a pain in the ass but it is rarely denied.

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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-30-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. Read the whole article. Turns out the fiance's previous marriage WAS ANNULLED
by the ex-wife who had filed for the annulment!

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Sanctified Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-31-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. Well she knew the deal when she took the job. n/t
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