Why didn't Libby make a deal? I don't think the trail is helping the GOP.

maybe we've not seen the up side of the defense but what we've seen so far is pretty damming to this admin.

Chris Matthews is pretty hot on the story since his program was talked about in the trail yesterday. Timmy Russert might not be happy with how the admin saw him (as a tool to be used for message control). I don't think the media will ignore the trial as they might have thought.

I do not see this trial as helping the administration. Did Bush refuse to promise a pardon? Did they think the trial would/will turn to their favor (as poor victims of a overzealous prosecutor)? Did they think we wouldn't be paying attention? (Crap, anyone remember a time when the VP of the freaking US testified in a trial like this?)

Seems to me Rove is either not calling the shots or misfired on this one if he thought the trial would not hurt. Or is this a non-issue to all but us junkies?

I just don't get why Libby didn't plead to something and make this go away.

And, not all agree with me here, but I'm delighted we don't have to litigate the issue of the outing itself, only that Libby is a big, fat, liar (and his bosses are too). In a way, we get all the dirt of the outing/revenge/pettiness without having to prove the difficult to prove elements of the charge itself.

But Fitz wanted more prison time than Libby was willing to do.

"we get all the dirt of the outing/revenge/pettiness without having to prove the difficult to prove elements of the charge itself."

he is more interested in exposing the truth than in any convictions. if he plays this right he'll be a national hero, albeit a slow-moving one,

My guess is that Libby has been indirectly promised a pardon if he plays nice. But is he playing nice?

See where that got him

If I were Libby, I would make a deal today in time for the Friday news dump.

Now ask yourself if it would bother Dick Cheney if he was Impleached/removed from office. Not in a million years!

Cheney has zero aspirations to become President. This is his last hurrah. As long as he's there, he's perfectly willing to be the fallguy for Bush in order to protect what they've done for the "OFFICE" of the President. They've managed to regain and expand Presidential powers beyond what we could have ever imagined. And as far as his claims of "success", check the Halliburton stock coming to him after he's out of the WH.

I think part of the 'mistake' that the collective we makes is when we hear "The President" we equate it as being the officeholder. It's important to listen when politicians say "This President" or "President Bush" vs. "The President". Case in point: The IWR resolution was for 'the President of the United States'. For everyone who's upset about Hillary's vote, she voted to give "The President" use of force, not Bush. But we don't view it in those terms. If something happens to the officeholder, the replacement has to be able to continue without Congress racing to pass authorizations and bills and resolutions etc. We have to listen very carefully.

In my view, Libby is only a tip of the iceburg and they are banking on having time on their side. By the time they've accomplished their goals (whatever they are) and gone as far as they can, a new person will be in holding the office. They'll be sitting on their porches patting themselves on the back for a job well done even if there were a few casualties in the process.

You must be thinking of some other "Cheney."

Remember, these are the Nixon Administration guys. It's about the office, not the man. As long as they can increase the powers of that office and retain control of it, they're happy.

Which of the Nixon administration guys are you speaking of?

You had made a statement about the guys from the Nixon administration. I was curious what you meant. I am fully aware of who was involved in Watergate.

Cheney, Rumsfeld and the people they hired to be closest to them are also a primarily from Nixon.

oops! Gotta run! Have a great weekend! :hi:

to the Nixon administration had no connection to the criminal charges in Watergate, nor any real implications for the Libby trial. However, numerous people from the Nixon administration were charged, tried, convicted, and incarcerated.

Have a nice run!

another, if Ford had not cut it off at the knees with his pardon for Nixon - with Nixon gone and pardoned, there was seemingly no point to pursuing his crimes any farther.

Which ones?

we'll never know, will we?

Can you name any investigation that was stopped short, other than the House's per Nixon? Is there a single suspect from that period who had been the object of an investigation that stopped due to Nixon being pardoned?

FBI for his own personal and political uses, and the employment of convicted felons to commit burglaries of political opponants, that would have come about if he had not been preemptively pardoned. Do you really think it stopped with Hunt and Libby?

Nice guy that I am, I will nevertheless never forgive Ford for pardoning Nixon, and leaving all these criminals to plague us for the next 4 decades.

That is also why we must not satisfy ourselves with * leaving office - there are too many active criminals in his administration who must not be allowed to come back in 15 years.

did not end with Hunt and Liddy. In fact, related cases did continue, and even Mark Felt would be convicted.

A serious case can be made for severe damage being done by pardons derailing investigations and justice can be made for the Iran-Contra scandals. Unlike the Watergate scandals, a significant number of people who were involved in criminal activities "survived" from the Reagan-Bush era to serve in the Bush2 administration. And while a few of the cast of criminal characters date back to Nixon's administration -- including Rumsfeld and Cheney -- it is more accurate to say they learned tactics from that era (how to properly cover-up, stall an investigation, and use/abuse pardons) than to say they escaped prosecution. Nixon did escape prosecution, and that was an error, in my opinion. But not because others got off.

:D

:thumbsup:

Congress should seriously consider slapping Cheney with War Profiteering charges if he benefits from his Halliburton stock when he leaves office. Not difficult to prove the One Billion Per Cent it went up during the Iraq war, you know? And who was deciding the no-bid contracts that drove up that stock? Oh ... right.

They need to be held accountable and frankly, I don't want to see a chunk taken out of their asses. I want to see them eaten whole!

My dream come true would be to try and convict them on treason charges.

When is their civil suit beginning? Will their trial hinge on what happens with this trial?

He could rat out Cheney and go to jail, or he could go to trial and go to jail.

He held out too long and now he finds his "ass has been burned". Get it - Aspens turning ..... Ack! It's late on a Friday afternoon. ;)

The only acceptable deal would be pushing the responsibility up the line, to Cheney and Rove and even up to *. And doing that could be hazardous to his health.

By going thru with the trial it not only reveals the prosecutions resources, but it puts Libby in the safe spot of not having to testify - cannot incriminate himself, you know. Between the rock and the hard place, he chose the rock.