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Obama is losing a battle he doesn't know he's in - Guardian UK

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:18 AM
Original message
Obama is losing a battle he doesn't know he's in - Guardian UK
Silence is being seen as concurrence with Israeli aggression in Gaza.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/04/obama-gaza-israel

Barack Obama's chances of making a fresh start in US relations with the Muslim world, and the Middle East in particular, appear to diminish with each new wave of Israeli attacks on Palestinian targets in Gaza. That seems hardly fair, given the president-elect does not take office until January 20. But foreign wars don't wait for Washington inaugurations.

Obama has remained wholly silent during the Gaza crisis. His aides say he is following established protocol that the US has only one president at a time. Hillary Clinton, his designated secretary of state, and Joe Biden, the vice-president-elect and foreign policy expert, have also been uncharacteristically taciturn on the subject.

But evidence is mounting that Obama is already losing ground among key Arab and Muslim audiences that cannot understand why, given his promise of change, he has not spoken out. Arab commentators and editorialists say there is growing disappointment at Obama's detachment - and that his failure to distance himself from George Bush's strongly pro-Israeli stance is encouraging the belief that he either shares Bush's bias or simply does not care.

To maintain the hardline US posture of placing the blame for all current troubles squarely on Hamas, to the extent of repeatedly blocking limited UN security council ceasefire moves, would be to end all realistic hopes of winning back Arab opinion - and could have negative, knock-on consequences for US interests in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Gulf.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is utter crap. Obama is not president yet. Speaking out means
he thinks he is president already, he would be taken apart for his "arrogance". Really, can this man win either way? In past transitions this has never been an issue and with Carter into Reagan there was a hostage crisis!
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Horse Pucky. If Obama's views are different than bu$h's then why not say so.
Speaking out does not mean Obama thinks he is president, Speaking out means his views are different than bu$h's. What happened to "Change We Can Believe In"? That seems to be disappearing like steam on a windy day.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. No... he couldn't win
either way. Either way, some people would be angry.

He should wait until he is president to speak about this.


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Turbineguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
2. This has been going on for 60 years
with very little progress. Why the sudden impatience?
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Uzybone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. He is the first black president you know
He is expected to perform miracles and wonders or else he is an abject failure.

The idiots who have been in power and the fucking media that have enabled them are suddenly acting as if they have no idea why all this is happening. Bush and US policy for the last 50 years are already off the hook, now its all Obamas fault/problem.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
48. AMEN!
Absolutely!

And why is it our problem? It really is getting to the point where the rest of the world should not have to put up with this conflict.

We need to send in the UN to run the whole place. There are always going to be Palestinians making terrorist attacks, and Israel will always respond with collective punishment and build more settlements and Jews-only roads in the territories. The bigger Israel is, the less likely it is to be "pushed into the sea" and they will keep it up until they have enough territory to feel comfortable. Which will be never. The Palestinians will never accept further losses and their hatred just increases every time they find themselves being bombed because they failed to prevent others of their nationality from making terrorist attacks.

If it's our problem, then we need to send the troops THERE and run the place ourselves! It'll just stay the same otherwise.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. Obama's between Iraq and a hard place.
Chimpy is still president.
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. well put.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'm going to defend Obama on this issue...
It's irresponsible and possibly dangerous to play "shadow president" with such a sensitive situation. Plus, he's right. We DO only have one president at a time. Republicans are the ones who made disrespecting the constitution part of their brand.
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panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
5. At this point Obama is still a junior senator from Illinois
Wait 'til the 20th.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. No, he's not
Remember? He resigned his office right after he was elected President.

He's actually unemployed right now.

And the Arab world trying to put pressure on him like this is an utter waste of time. I don't think they understand who they're dealing with.

Mr. Cool.
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ellisonz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. "I don't think they understand who they're dealing with."
They suck at listening...
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. Boy,
do you have that right!

:toast:
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
6. why do people write something as dumb as "in a battle he doesn't know he's in"?
I'd be willing to wager anything he knows darn well he's in it. And I think underestimating him is foolish.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Good Catch, Cali
I'm quite sure he's completely aware of the situation.
GAC
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. because it makes the writer appear so much more wise.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. why all this talk about Obama saying something, Bush
unfortunately is President and has not done crap, nothing new. Condi has not done anything either, this whole things smells of negligence of this present regime.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. The idea that Obama "doesn't know he's in" this "battle" is ridiculous.
Whoever wrote that headline doesn't know Obama.
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
10. Holy sad shit, he's not even the goddamned president yet!
PB
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
34. He's known he's going to be for a couple of months, though.
The only thing he can do at present is talk, so "he's not president yet" is a valid response to most criticisms of him for not doing things.

But it's not a good response to people criticising him for not saying things.

He ought to criticise Israel's attack on the Palestinians.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. We should have impeached Bush & Cheney when we had the chance...
but, then we'd have President Pelosi, and she's pretty much a worthless piece of crap when it comes to leadership.
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. This shows the lack of understanding of the writer at the Guardian.
First, the "Muslim and Arab World" must have misread the Campaign.
Anyone who becomes President in the US will pretty much follow the
established precedent in this country--Support of Israel.

Another established precedent. Politics ends at the water's edge.
To expect Obama to be speaking up before he becomes President is
ridiculous.

Do they think he is going to come out and go against Israel?????
They have chosen to misunderstand American Politics.

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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
14. Bushitler bullshit.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
15. If you listened to Democracy Now they really laid into him last week.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but...
...for around two years prior to Election Day we got bombarded with Obama's message. Every day, in every possible
medium, we had access to his thoughts. Once he wins the election, though, we get to see him frolicking in Hawaii with
golf clubs. Completely mute. This, despite this country being in the worst shape it's ever been in since the Civil
War, and despite emergencies such as the situation in Gaza. Clearly, there are people with skin in the game who are hanging
on his every word.

No, he's not President yet. We just ELECTED him to be President. He should speak - these are not times to stand on ceremony.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. uh, hate to break this to you, but there's a substantial difference
between being a candidate and being President-Elect. And sorry, the country was certainly in as grave a shape during the depression.

And your sour grapes about Obama "frolicking" are just laughable.
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Dreamer Tatum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Not sour grapes
Show me pictures of a guy in Hawaii with a set of golf clubs, and I'll show you a frolicker.

You're correct, there is a difference, but that burnishes my point. Elect me, and I will bring change
and fix everything. Well, we elected him, and things have only turned shittier. He could at least
speak up a LITTLE. He wasn't hired to manage a grocery store.

When the Great Depression started, how many wars were we fighting? How many aircraft carriers did we
have all over the world? How many countries looked to the United States for guidance? Sorry, buddy,
but things are worse now than any time, ever, save for when we were killing each other.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. I completely agree with you.
This kind of thing is not setting an encouraging precedent.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. "He wasn't hired to manage a grocery store." Spot on
:thumbsup:

Civil discourse has taken on a corporate mindset, complete with the buzzy terminology. It's nice to see reminders that it shouldn't be this way.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. "Show me pictures of a guy in Hawaii with a set of golf clubs..."
and I'll show you someone that hasn't had a vacation in about a year and a half, and probably won't have much of one for another year and a half.

We didn't elect Obama to be Chief Slave of the American People. He's the President-Elect right now. It's wholly inappropriate for him to say anything about this situation.

Obama has spoken to the main issue before. Given that in other areas he keeps saying the same thing on this side of the election he said on the other, I expect he feels the same way about those issues.

http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/#onisrael
http://origin.barackobama.com/pdf/IsraelFactSheet.pdf

Support Israel’s Right to Self Defense: During the July 2006 Lebanon war, Barack Obama and Joe Biden
stood up strongly for Israel’s right to defend itself from Hezbollah raids and rocket attacks. Obama is an
original cosponsor of the Senate resolution expressing support for Israel, condemning the attacks, and calling
for strong action against Iran and Syria. Throughout the war, Barack Obama made clear that Israel should not
be pressured into a ceasefire that did not deal with the threat of Hezbollah missiles. Senator Obama remains
concerned about the rapid re-arming of Hezbollah in Lebanon since the ceasefire. In addition, Obama signed a
letter to the European Union pressing the EU to designate Hezbollah as a terrorist organization. Long before the
July 2006 conflict, Barack Obama worked to limit Hezbollah’s influence in the region, signing a letter urging
President Bush to place al-Manar, the official television station of Hezbollah, on the Treasury Department’s
Specially Designated Global Terrorist Entity list and to aggressively target organizations that aid in its
broadcast.
Work towards Ending Hamas Rocket Attacks: In his visit to Israel on July 23, 2008, Barack Obama visited
the Israeli town of Sderot and stood in solidarity with its residents, who have endured an endless onslaught of
Hamas’ Qassam rockets. On that day, he declared: “The state of Israel faces determined enemies who seek its
destruction. But it also has a friend and ally in the United States that will always stand by the people of Israel.
That's why I'm proud to be here today and that's why I will work from the moment that I return to America, to
tell the story of Sderot and to make sure that the good people who live here are enjoying a future of peace and
security and hope.” In January, 2008, Senator Obama sent a letter to our United
Nations Representative urging that any resolution concerning the situation in Gaza should “clearly and
unequivocally condemn the rocket attacks against Israel, and should make clear that Israel has the right to
defend itself against such actions.”
Work towards Two States Living Side by Side in Peace and Security: Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe
in working towards a two-state solution, with both states living side by side in peace and security. To that end,
Senators Obama and Biden are cosponsors of the Palestinian Anti-Terrorism Act of 2006. Introduced in the
wake of Hamas’ victory in the Palestinian elections, this act outlaws direct assistance to any entity of the
Palestinian Authority controlled by Hamas until it meets the conditions of the United States, Russia, the
European Union and the United Nations to renounce violence, recognize Israel, and agree to abide by all
agreements signed by the Palestinian Authority. Obama signed a letter urging President Bush to make it clear
to Palestinian leaders that terrorist groups must either disarm or be barred from the political process. Since the
elections, Obama has stated that Israelis must have a true Palestinian partner for peace. He will encourage the
strengthening of the Palestinian moderates who seek peace and work to isolate Hamas and other extremists who
are committed to Israel’s destruction.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
45. I see no reason he should not go golfing
Is there any benefit to his becoming a burn-out case now?

He's not in the job yet. Anything he said would be used against him. He's too smart for that crap.

Everyone went on about what he should do during the campaign and he still won even though he did not follow the advice of various DUers.

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northernlights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
47. for 2 years Obama ran
a spectacular campaign.

On the eve of his victory he lost the grandmother who raised him.

Facing the greatest economic calamity since the great depression, while PRESIDENT Bush was fiddling, Obama stepped up to the plate, helped prevent a total meltdown, and got the Big 3 rescue kicked well into his term. This was unprecedented action, and brilliant.

Obama is CHOOSING not to speak out for his own reasons. Maybe because, as others have written, politics ends at the shoreline and he is not yet President.

Maybe, as others have suggested, his LACK OF ENDORSEMENT of BUSH's response SPEAKS VOLUMES.

And HOW DARE PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA take a well deserved vacation?

WHAT ABOUT PRESIDENT BUSH, WHO'S BEEN HANGING OUT ON HIS RANCH DURING THIS CRISIS?

Criminies....

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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. B U L L S H I T
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. He is just letting Bush take one final lump for everything
and he should
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. The writer has it bucking fackward. Obama's silence *probably* implies a *break* with chimpy.
It would be really fucking easy for him to spout congressional Democratic (and chimp-ic) pro Israeli talking points bcz that's the party line. But he *hasn't*.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
24. I love when foreigners and some Americans show their complete and utter
ignorance as to how our government works.

perhaps Obama will be able to do something when HE'S PRESIDENT.

until then, it's just a private citizen with no power to enforce or encourage anything.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. This "...just a private citizen with no power..." has accesses to a microphone
whenever he want. Why not use it to promote peace. That would be a change I can believe in.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Because, he can't push policy until he's PRESIDENT.
sigh.

:banghead:
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Why not? It would be his policy.
Maybe save a few lives.:banghead:
15 days and counting.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. No, he can't establish policy, but he can make his views known.
Unless he is afraid of pissing off the Israeli lobby.


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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #33
44. Gee, just today I heard that Obama is up on Capital Hill, pushing his policy,
Namely his stimulus package. I would think that if he can do that, he can start pushing other policies of his. Same thing goes with his weekly radio broadcast. Instead, we're treated to the sound of silence
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. yet, it has no intrinsic value only psychological. he can't do anything until sworn in. he said it.....
himself. "one president at a time".
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. He can speak out as a "private citizen".
Others private citizens are speaking out about the atrocity all over the world.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. Sure he can, but he has no power to change a thing until sworn in. nt
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cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
27. The only thing that bugs me right now, is that I have no idea how my president feels about this...
It bothers me. If I am ever in a discussion with anyone my answer will have to be "I don't know"

I hate that
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Your President is Bush. Your President Elect will be sworn in on Jan20th
and will make himself clear at that time, and for the next 4 years following (and 8 years is what I'm betting on).

There is no need to own this mess considering that he has no power other than to set himself up for criticism for speaking out saying something that doesn't duplicate what the current President is saying.

And if you have no idea of where Obama stands on this, than you don't know someone willing to come in as an honest broker. He is telegraphing that he is not taking sides on this one....which is what one would want in an honest broker.

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cags Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
54. Bush was never MY president... just wanted to make that clear... LOL
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
30. I agree that he should be speaking out. NOW.
At a minimum, it is irresponsible of him not to.
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
50. Yes, the world is waiting for his response
He's going to have to speak up about this.
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
37. The "key Arab and Muslim audiences" he's losing, he couldn't have relied on anyway
That's my opinion. This is different from a situation in which he essentially agrees with the current pResident. If the tables were turned, Obama wouldn't welcome the comments of an incoming President-elect. That's how we do it in this country.

The very fact that he refuses to say anything should tell the observant viewer that he disagrees with how Bush is handling it. Let's wait until January 21 before we throw him overboard on this issue.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
42. Could the influence of the Christian Right be part of the problem?

Just asking in light of today's highly recommended thread.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
43. Well sorry, we have our inaugurations on Jan. 20 after the election
regardless of what Arab leaders want. How ridiculous. Anyone who is smart enough to become leader of a country ought to know that.

And in the end, it is not our problem. I've had it with the Middle East. Let's get out and leave them alone. Pay them the market value for the oil Allah was so gracious as to give them huge amounts of.

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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. What a useless response.
Sorry, but it is. "Get out and do nothing." Not an available option.
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
46. If Obama were Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed all rolled into one...
He still wouldn't be able to fix this mess.

About the only thing we could do in the Mid-East would be to cut off aid to Israel cold turkey. I doubt the results of such an action would be considered enjoyable to most Americans.
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
55. "It's time to get down to the people's business." Obama quote from yesterday
Yeah he was referring to the economic crisis. He's not being silent there.......

The silence about the slaughter of innocents being murdered in the Gaza cage speaks volumes.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
56. One President at a time
Obama has spoken out here and there, but if you will note, he has generally done so only when he could offer support and emphasis to proposals from the sitting President, such as with the bailout. He has not spoken out in opposition to Bush since becoming President-Elect.

My take is that if he thought Bush was doing the right thing, he would speak in support of it. His silence on the matter suggests he has found nothing to agree with in the Bush approach. This would be a good thing.

Until December 19, there was a cease fire in place, Bush encouraged the Israeli's to allow it to expire as a prelude to this action. I expect that Barack does not agree.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
57. Speaking out . . .
"Arab and Muslim audiences cannot understand why, given his promise of change, he has not spoken out."

Ditto the Democrats who campaigned for him . . .
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