If you had a 13 year old female student burst into tears in your classroom >>> and she told you she

was having problems at home and when pressed said she couldn't talk about it it was a secret between her and her dad and she couldn't even tell her mom


would you not be suspicious?

What comes to your mind???




I reported it

and I am fearful for this lovely child.

I want to bring her home to my house

It's someone else's job to investigate and determine whether further action need be taken. You did your part.

I am not harping here. In fact, I think you did a brave and honorable thing.

But you should know that mandated reporters have to more than report it to someone in their school . They are also mandated to make sure that appropriate action is taken in that it is reported to child authorities and the police. This is to ensure that some principle doesn't stonewall. So you might have to do more.

Keep it up. You are a good person. Keep that in mind if it gets tough and remember that little girl.

report. Don't worry about judging it. The law allows you ZERO lattitude to make that distinction. She came to you because she was praying you would do what you did.

RV, been there, done that.

:hug:

And I would have reported it.

You definitely did the right thing!

:eyes:

While it's obviously a suspicious situation that bodes no good...man that was funny.

:eyes: :thumbsdown:

It's entirely possible that someone lurking in this thread knows the OP in real life. If so, the Lurker is now privy to a conversation that should have remained private.

And hopefully an investigation has been initiated.

i hate to see these threads. you may think that this is anonymous, but things said on the internet often find their way into the real world.

I'm way more paranoid and careful than average about saying stuff on here that could be connected with my real life name and job, but even still, it's possible that a really obsessed stalker could figure it out. That's why I don't give away much personal info here. Too dangerous.

... "post it on the internet" ... which is why you don't have a license. Otherwise you wouldn't say anything so reckless.

People are still innocent until proven guilty, which is why there is an investigation.

I suggest you go ahead and post something you suspect to the internet soon. You will get your ass sued into oblivion if you are wrong or the case can't be proved, which it might not be because some fool posted about it on the internet and gave the suspected perp, assuming guilt, a heads up and a chance to cover up.

But hey. Feel free.

:eyes:

Thanks for being one of the good guys, greenbriar.

:hug: to you and your student.

That little girl should not be left in that situation.

You did the right thing. I, too, would be very suspicious.

I cannot begin to thank you enough, for what you have done.

I was sexually abused as a child. I said things like this to neighbors, teachers, random adults on
the street. My words were cryptic, like this girl's--because I didn't have the words for what was
happening.

I remember when I reached out for help like that. You endure the abuse for so long, and then you get
older and a part of you begins to understand how awful it is, and that it might not be your fault. So
you begin to tell...even though you are terrified. Even though you have been told that you will not
be believed.

After I told and was not helped, I slipped into a major depression. I pulled inward and I coped by
disassociating and emotionally hunkering down. It was official...I was alone. No one was going to help.

I stayed that way until I was finally able to "tell" again--in my 30's. I spent 5 years in therapy
finally talking about it.

What you just did was pivotal in this girl's life. It's nothing short of a miracle. You truly
have "caught" her, and saved her from untold suffering, pain and trauma that could manifest in so
many terrible ways in her adult life. Eating disorders, substance abuse, mental illness and suicide,
come to mind.

Once these kids decide that they are on their own---they hunker down so far. Many never stop being
curled up tight in a bud.

I'm sorry if I'm droning on, but you give me hope. This is what I deserved and never got. This is what
this girl deserves. You obviously see her beauty and innocence. What a blessing you are to her.

Thank you for posting...it's uplifting to hear stories about people who do the RIGHT thing. I didn't
expect to meet an angel today!

:hug: :)

What a heartbreaking story. :hug: I am so sorry that you didn't get the help when you were young that greenbriar gave to that girl today.

How incredibly alone you must have felt, having mustered up the courage to tell and... nothing happened, nothing changed. :cry:

It's healing when others understand this. :hug:

I did feel alone because perpetrators are masters at convincing victims that the abuse
is their fault.

I didn't "tell" like the girl who Greenbriar knows. However, the signs were obvious
to anyone who was paying attention.

Again, thanks for your kind words. :)

Peace and Love, Kim

Hugs to you too. :hug:

...as a child.

Every child is innocent. No one deserves abuse, and I'm sorry that you
didn't get the childhood you deserved.

I hope you are doing well now. It's a long road back, isn't it?

:hug:

that even though most people don't have the exact same childhood that I did, most of them had SOME kind of problems and nobody had a perfect childhood. Some had it worse than I did. I'm okay, but one of my sisters just can't deal with the fact that her abuse could have been prevented by the people who knew what had happened to my cousins, other sister and me but it wasn't.

:hug:

Big hugs to you. :hug:

I'm sure it made her feel much better/confident/comfortable (whichever word) in what she did today.

And for you, a: :hug:

...those who do these courageous things. Staying silent is much easier.
Greenbriar deserves much praise for listening to her gut instincts and
doing the right thing.

A big :hug: right back at ya!

:hug:

:hug: :)

:cry: :hug:

Hugs and support right back at ya. :hug: :pals:

Thank you very much...

...and hugs to you. :hug:

:)

And thank you for sharing your story from an adult survivor perspective.

I think that's one of the main reasons that abuse survivors remain silent. They
feel that they are alone, and as if there is something wrong with them, and that
it is their fault--which clearly, it is not.

Thanks for your kind words.

If you are an educator, it is your legal responsibility to report any signs of abuse--and a teen crying and saying what she said is a sign that an investigation needs to be made.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

that when girls say they have a secret between her and her father that she can't tell her mother, the usual conclusion is sexual molestation - and then watch her reaction closely. Because that's a pretty serious accusation to drag into a family if it isn't true. I can't think of any other explanation, but I'd also be careful about making that accusation.

On Edit:

Maybe she caught him having an affair and doesn't want to tell her mom. Maybe she knows he's planning on leaving. Maybe she knows he lost his job.

I hate when people jump to the ugliest possible conclusion.

with an emotional girl crying and not telling what it is, leaving it opened and then reporting to cps.

serious accusation

i like your solution. that would have been a clever way to handle it.

You don't go wrong when you tell them the truth.

expose a possible situation. If there is abuse or another crime going on, discussing it should be left up to councelors and experts. Refer her to the administration without further talk about it.

I said to inform her of what the conclusion was going to be to her remarks, in case she didn't realize. Then to watch her response, which might include, omg-no-I just caught my dad smoking pot and didn't know what to do.

Sometimes "experts" cause more problems than they solve.

doubting the truth of the child's story. This might discourage their seeking help, and just figure, "Never mind, no one will believe me."

But there you go, just jumping to the worst possible conclusion. Enjoy.

That's the way it sounded. You don't have to be mean about someone's perception.

and constantly being sexually harassed from age 11 until I (not my mother, me) put a stop to it at age 15, I can tell you that young teens who are put into such a situation are usually terrified. Not just of the offending parent, but of what others will think, of what will happen to that parent. Feelings are confused: anger, pain, terror, embarrassment, fear of being blamed, fear of what one's friends (and others) will say and think.

Plus they are programed to silence.

It takes tremendous courage to speak out to anyone about it and is usually done cryptically, if at all. Then there will be the agony of hope/fear that one was or was not understood or believed, hoping to be and praying not to be.

Reporting this was the only option. The girl is in distress. And Greenbriar, as a teacher, is legally required to report suspicions of abuse.

on edit: There may be an innocent explanation; I hope there is, but it is better to err on the side of safety.

Or maybe he broke something special of Mama's. Or maybe she caught him reading a Playboy or something, and Mama is really uptight about that sort of thing.

There could be any number of reasons.

you did. For those of us who have never had to face this, it is important to know why some young person would say such a thing--and how we should respond.

but chances are the secret has nothing to do with her and everything to do with her dad. Well, at least we all hope so.

Remember, kids find out that parents are having affairs or have been stealing at work, too.

Offering your home without knowing what the scoop is can get you into trouble, but telling her to come to you first if she needs to run away might be a better tactic.

I made her look me in the eye and promise to come find me if I could do ANYTHING at all



and then I went to the counselor and made the proper phone calls

In either of those cases is still abuse. No child should be asked to do that. It is too much pressure for a young mind.

and that's why it had to be reported.

About 10 years ago I was called to jury duty for the third time. I was selected to serve on a jury for a case in which the defendant was charged with multiple counts of two different laws that were broken when he had sex with both of his then-grown daughters. The youngest daughter was about 19 at the time and the older daughter was probably 2 or 3 years older.

As the case progressed it became clear (unanimous verdict to follow) that the man had sexual intercourse with both of his daughter starting when each of them was early in her teens and continuing until the older daughter was married and until the younger had a child by him. Both daughters were in the courtroom and testified (in a manner of speaking), the younger daughter had the child sired by her own father with her during the trial.

I am not going to share any detail of the trial, there is no reason to. Anything you imagine other than violent force was there and it went on for years. I have never felt so much revulsive disgust in my life as in the week that I served as Foreman on that jury.

You did the right thing.

You did the right thing, don't doubt it for a moment.

...who did one hell of a lot of family and juvenile law.

I totally agree with your statement.

I just hope it's not too late for her. Sometimes it takes a while for kids to gather up the courage to even show a sign that there's a problem, out of fear.

particularly if she will still be in your classroom next semester.

:hug:

My heart breaks for her. I don't know any sane adult who wouldn't come to the same conclusion you did.

It took a lot of courage for her to open up enough to raise the flags. May she get the help she needs and may the healing begin.

And if for some reason they are not available, then a call to Child Protective Services makes sense.

I work in the schools, you absolutely did the right thing! :applause:

I understand your concern. Without knowing more, I'd do a counseling referral for distress with an unknown cause.

from 18 months of age to 17 years old. Not knowing it wasn't normal to be with Dad (her mother knew and did nothing), her greatest regret was that the school social services counselor did not recognize her problem many years earlier and stop the horror. It destroyed her self esteem.

You DID the right thing in helping save this girl. Good for you.

:eyes:

:hug:

I hope everything is ok with that girl.

:hug:

hopefully her mother will be there to support her.

let's hope this doesn't turn into a tragedy, but rather an opportunity to save a young life.

Or, let's hope she was just talking about a secret gift for Mom or the like. If only it were a misunderstanding, then that would be even better.

But I bet your first instincts were correct. They usually are.

then I would have attempted to verify any suspicion with facts before reporting anyone. Perhaps you already did, and just left that info out of your post. Maybe your instincts are correct ... I wasn't there, and I understand how you can gain a feel for a situation ... but it could also be a number of other things that come to my mind that could be traumatic for her, without necessarily indicating that the dad has committed any serious offense against her personally. I taught High School for a while in Calif, saw some pretty sad things ... Who did you report "it" to?

good luck
rt

If you taught high school for a while it must have been quite a while ago.

These days you report what you know. What that girl told was enough to report. If you want to follow up with her, then fine, but you have to report even suspicions. You don't wait.

you report the slightest suspicion. It's up to DHS or the appropriate agency in your state to follow up and take necessary action. But a teacher must report these concerns. If only to keep their job and certification.

...it has been the law for a long time ~~ at least in Calif ~~ that teachers are MANDATED reporters and are insulated from liability if their report turns out to be incorrect.

to get them to report this type of thing so it can be followed up on.

You did well.
And yes, as an educator, I would be VERY suspicious of that.

As an example, I had the misfortune to learn of a divorce a full week before my mother bothered to inform my stepdad. I can't tell you what I wreck I was (he was practically a second father to me) that week, keeping the secret under the threat of severe punishment from my mother. Another possibility that pops into my mind is health problems...the father may have something wrong with him (or there may be something wrong with another relative) that they've decided to withhold from the mother. Even staying on the sexual theme there are other possibilities. At 13 it's possible that the girl may be pregnant and confided in dad. I know that, in my own home growing up, my Catholic mother beat one of my younger sisters to a bloody pulp when she found out she was having sex. ALL THREE of my sisters went to my far more open minded and tolerant dad for any sex related issues...including my other sister when she had an abortion at 16. To this day my mom has no idea that my dad set her appointment up and took her to PP.

I'm not saying it's not sexual abuse, and you may have indeed done a great thing here, but it's probably too little information for everyone to be criticizing the dad and deciding that he's some sort of monster. We tend to assume the worst in these situations, but many times the truth turns out to be something far more palatable. You did do the right thing by reporting it so someone could look into it a bit further.

I can think of a wide range of non-abuse scenarios.

It's emotional abuse to ask a child to keep a secret like that.

Knowing about a divorce before one of the partners in the marriage knows, is a tough burden to put on a kid. They carry it forever. Feelings of guilt about betraying one parent over another. Children are not sounding boards, friends or therapists. They should never be asked to keep secrets from those they love. Or to have choose one parent over another. It creates a lot of internal conflict.

The poster did NOT say "It's emotional abuse to ask a child to keep a secret." The poster specifically said a "secret like that," which obviously meant a secret of that magnitude, and under threat of severe punishment.

stating more, but went with less. Certainly including kids in a secret for a surprise party for someone is good. What are being discussed are secrets that burden and overwelm children emotionally.

It has been said several times in the post that it's emotional abuse to ask a child to keep a secret. Where do you get under threat of severe punishment? I'm glad they reported it, I think the speculation and calls to castrate the father are a little over the top.

David

You seem to be conflating the OP with the post you actually responded to. In the post you responded to, the poster said:

"I can't tell you what I wreck I was (he was practically a second father to me) that week, keeping the secret under the threat of severe punishment from my mother."

That's where I got it from. It wasn't just a case of someone asking a child to keep a secret--it was a case of forcing a child to keep an enormous and painful secret under threat of punishment.

Someone else replied. I then replied to that person. The person I asked the question never answered and here we are, do you understand now?

David

absofuckinglutely

That is so stressful that it causes a reaction like this, is wrong. Period.

thing but caution that it could be something different from what many of us might be assuming. For example, Dad is having an affair, or she wants to "come out" but can't talk to her mom, or any number of things, plus the obvious. Thank you for caring!

and this student of yours sensed that in you and that is why she confided in you.

God bless you for the action you took today. Let's just hope the social worker who looks into it is as compassionate and conscientious as yourself.

First one to child protective services.

Second one to Lorena Bobbitt. Or perhaps some ex-cons who really don't like "baby rapers". (probably the same results either way)

The right thing to do was to report it, just in case. But to be so convinced that child abuse is taking place is just completely ignorant and reckless. For all you know the father wants a divorce from the mother and wanted to discuss it with his daughter first, under the terms that she vows to not say anything to her mom yet. Who knows what the reality is at home? That's why it's a good thing to at least have someone check the situation out. To already slander this man when you have almost no information at your fingertips is just plain knee jerky.

Then he probably STILL deserves to have his ass beat for that, though not necessarily "Bobbitized".

Somehow I doubt that's the story though. More likely it IS what most here seem to think it is, from the description given.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

When I found out my mom was divorcing my stepdad, it had nothing to do with her putting any burden on me. I overheard her talking to her lawyer on the phone, and she responded by telling me to keep my mouth shut. She wanted to leave while he was on a company trip to avoid any fighting, and knew he'd cancel the trip if he discovered that she'd filed for divorce.

FWIW, I'm a mandatory reporter, as is my wife, and we've both made these calls in the past. I can tell you that in MOST reported cases, the investigations turn up nothing more than normal family problems. I can think of a hundred scenarios that could have led her to say and behave the way she did, and only a handful involve her actually being abused herself.

The OP did the right thing by calling. The suspicion is there, and the possibility of abuse is there, so it's proper to have someone look into it further. To assume the worst may be human nature, but more often than not it's also incorrect.

It was impossible to tell anyone, so I started a diary. After we left, the diary was left and my dad found it and attacked me for keeping the secret for my mum.

I wish neither her not him any ill for it, and my mother certainly shouldn't get her "ass beaten" for anything. She was doing her best as it was.

I think you should chill a bit.

They HAVE to report any suspicions and then let CPS take it from there.

Can't tell you the number of times I interacted with CPS during a 10 year teaching career. Let alone when I was in private practice.

:hi:

Did you misread my post?

The disagreement was with the conviction of the downthread poster who was already convicting the person of child molestation.

I'm surfing and cooking, so I probably did.

I feel for the OP. My first year of teaching, I had a student approach me and ask me to change his grade on his report card from an 'F' to a 'C' because he said 'my dad will beat the shit out of me'.

Well, being 21 and thinking 'scam city', I didn't do it.

The kid came in the next day with two black eyes and a bruised jaw.

I never, ever, ever gave another kid an 'F' without constant contact with the parents. This kid? I covered my ass by leaving a message and sending home deficiency reports, but I wish I had it to take back. I distinctly remember seeing him in the hall; having him meet my eyes, and then running to the bathroom and throwing up.

I wish I could take it back.

Happy New Year, my friend. Hope you and those two beautiful babies are well. :hug:

How would you describe it?

that the child is being abused, they have to report it.

CPS will investigate. If there's nothing there, the matter is dropped along with the file. CPS recognizes that sometimes a teacher will misinterpret what a child has indicated/said.

Better safe than sorry.

No kid should be put in that position.

And mom wouldn't understand, or her dad is close to being laid off and doesn't want to tell his wife, or the girl confided to dad that a boy took advantage of her...

There's just way too many scenarios. The possibility of abuse obligates one to make a report, but the range of possibilities is way too broad to make assumptions.

:thumbsup: :hi:

At this point, I think your best interests are served by waiting until CPS does an investigation.

I hope you notified your Principal and the child's guidance counselor. They should be in on the investigation when it convenes.

I hope everything turns out okay for her. You must be a hero to that girl. :hug:

I haven't read other replies here, but I would urge you not to let your (understandable, compassionate) feelings cause you to do anything that might be unhelpful both to your student and to YOU. (I don't know if that applies at all -- if it does, you'll know.)

Good for you for being someone this girl could share even that much with, and for doing what you did. :hug:

It's not easy because you want to believe the best.
You did the right thing!!

:hug:

Too many people would blow it off without reporting as being none of their business. You may have saved her life, and her sanity.

Is abusive, regardless of the situation. To heep that much guilt upon a child is disgusting and wrong. The first thing I ever taught my kids was that if someone tells you its a secret and don't tell your mother, you better come running and tell me right away because that person is up to no good!

You did the right thing. A young girl in tears with a secret she is warned not to share with her mother is absolutely abuse. Period.

my mother was a victim of "what comes to mind" at that age and younger, and it messed up every future relationship for her. If someone had reported it years earlier it would have spared her a lot of grief.

:hug:

would be that her father is sexually abusing her. i hope you'll be able to keep us up to date about this. and that she will be all right.

Thank you for reporting it. Ethical standards and morally, you did the right thing.

Right on.

Assuming some abuse happened...
Do the authorities talk to the girl first? the dad first?
Then what happens? Would the girl be removed from her home?
Would the dad be taken into custody?

Just curious, because I'm not aware of the procedures.

I think it is out of my hands at this point unless the girl comes to me with more.

I am not to question/interview her or talk with the parents about it


All I can do at this point is pray for this baby girl and offer a shoulder and a voice should she need one

I made her promise to come to me for anything


as I was comforting her, I noticed that she had two severe scars on her wrist

that is what raised my fears even more.

I was sure to point that out to the counselor

No child, nor anyone, should have to put up with any kind of abuse.
The proper authorities should handle this appropriately. I pray for her.

There's a bunch of things that could be weighing on this girl other than her being directly abused.

I hope she will be okay.

volunteer. My volunteer work was with 5th and 6th grade kids after school. I was the reference desk for them, and helped them find materials they needed. It was a great volunteer job, and I made lots of friends with those kids.

There was one 6th grade girl, though, who was there every day from the time school was out until her father picked her up about 5 pm. She was painfully shy and jumpy. I began to notice that she withdrew even more into herself the closer it got to when her father picked her up. She seemed fearful every day as that time grew near. Neither I nor any of the library staff could make much contact with her...she was just withdrawn and scared all the time.

Her father was a taciturn sort and very abrupt with everyone. He rarely said a word...just came in and rather harshly took the girl to his car.

I discussed this with the librarian, and she began to pay attention to the situation. Finally, she contacted CPS and just said what our concerns were. They investigated and it did turn out that the man, her father, was molesting her on a regular basis. Off he went to prison.

I ran into the girl a few years later, and she was much better. She remembered me from the library and seemed much more relaxed. I still didn't get to know her much at all, though.

The point is that if you notice strange or unusual behavior in children, don't keep it to yourself. There may be a horrible thing going on.

the girl was upset because her father wouldn't let her stay out pass 11 or didn't want her to date and her Mother agreed with him or something similar. In that case you may have caused no end of grief for a family.

If it's that the dad didn't want her to stay out past 11 or date it will be easily resolved.

What a shame.

(OK, I'm being facetious, but you get the point, right? Which is that not enough info is known at this point.)

I can't for the life of me see how a man would tell his CHILD he had cancer before he told his wife.

It was the right decision.

to his teacher when he was 13. He was sent home and the next day all hell broke lose when child protective services came to his house.....he should never have been allowed to go home it was so unfair as the whole family ganged up on him including his mother....was it really so bad etc. He was treated like a villain.This was in the early 80's but it is very tricky I'm glad you reported this but you do have to fear for the child. ON top of it all. was he knew it was reported and was just waiting for the bomb to fall. By the age of 15 he put himself into foster care he couldn't take his families treatment of him anymore.........his father got 5 years of probation and couldn't live at home even though he my friend had been sexually abused repeatedly since age 3 and so had his brothers.......to this day his brothers have never forgiven him.

A guy I went to high school with in the mid-80s was molested by a guidance counselor. He reported it, thank goodness. It was around the time that the TV movie "There's Something About Amelia" appeared. IMHO that movie was a catalyst for change where child sex abuse was concerned.

Teachers are supposed to report any suspected abuse directly to authorities or we could face prosecution. Until it was fully explained to our faculty, a lot of us thought that reporting to our Principal or Guidance Counselor was sufficient. It is not.

If this is not what it seems, the authorities will figure that out.

I'm sure you will worry, as I would if I were in your situation. Just know that you will not have to think "What if?" and wonder if abuse was still occuring.

Here's a hug :hug:

I used to work in daycare and I had one family, 2 boys who were 4 and 5, where the custody was split. When the boys were with Dad, they got adequate sleep, proper food, school work done and having contact with friends and family. When the boys were with Mom, they were out of control and belligerent. One day the boys disclosed some horrific abuses to my son, who was 5 at he time. After they were picked up by their mom, my son came up to me and said he needed to ask me something.

He was concerned because the boys had told him not to say anything especially to me. I had always raised him that if someone said it was a secret and to keep it from me, that he was to come to me immediately. He was torn because he didn't want to lose his friendship with these boys. His concern outweighed the fear of losing his friendship. After what he said, I spoke with my boss, who was also the Daycare owner. She spoke with both parents about the concerns raised.

Shortly after that the boys were pulled from the daycare and we were called to testify in family court. After that I had to deal with calls at all hours, usually very threatening call. I had just moved, so she shouldn't have known where we lived, and yet she showed up at my house one night and threatened my son. I called police and asked for a restraining order against that kept her away from me and my son. This woman was a lunatic who cam e after us because we did the right thing. She showed up at my son's school and said that I told her that she could pick him up. Fortunately, my son said to the teacher that she didn't say the password. We had a code that we used in case I had to send someone to pick him up from school and was unable to contact the school in time.

Would we report this again? You betcha. Those boys need to have a voice and no one was listening. I have no idea how they are doing as I have since left that province and have no contact with the family.

CraftyGal

Don't know what state you are in, but in some states teachers and health care providers are obligated to report all suspicions of child abuse. You did the right thing both for her and you and possibly any other siblings in the home who may be experiencing something similar. I hope it turns out that there is no abuse and there's an innocent explanation for her behavior today. Thanks for being such a good teacher.

Best case scenario is that it's some kind of financial problem that the dad didn't want to share with the mom. The worst case is...something much, much, worse.

1) Molestation.

or

2) The daughter is pregnant, and the mother would go psycho if she found out.

or

3) The father has a disease, which he keeps secret, but the daughter found out about it.

or

4) The father is having an affair.

or

5) The father is going to divorce the mother.

I have no idea, but that is what came to mind.

Reporting was the right thing to do.

The first thing that pops into most people's minds with things like this is sexual abuse, but it could really be any number of different things. Even still, better to be safe than sorry IMO.

somebody trained to handle it. That includes the little girl. She needs the professionals to step in.

I could be her, it doesn't have to be.

Either way, she needs to be reassured that life goes on.

first, you had to report it. you had to. but that does not make anything about what you or i think actually true. you did what you had to do. maybe its true. maybe its not. you don't know. i don't know, but i think its better to err on the side of caution.

that said, the rest of this gets murky. best case/worse case/who knows, a child might get removed from their home. and if i thought removing a child from their home was the greatest of all answers i would be in total support of it.

but the child could now be introduced into the foster care system. of which i am no fan.

into a life with no real home. into a life with no real family. and, if we are honest, into a life that might not be all that different from her past life.

there is no good answer here. i am honestly glad that i do not have to make these kinds of decisions.

i wish only the best for her. i wish only the best for you.

good luck. and god bless...

My SO's late father had an affair. This was like 40+ years ago. For reasons I don't quite understand, he used to take his older daughter (my SO's sister) to his mistress's house, and that was their super secret. All these years later, my SO's sister is still somewhat bitter about it.

When I was a child, my father used to confide in me about financial matters that were "secret" because he thought my mother was financially irresponsible.

Both of them confided in me about "their side" of certain disagreements they had, which were supposed to be kept confidential.

I realize none of these examples is optimum parenting, but in reality, this is the way family life is for many people.

In the current economic climate, frankly my first guess was that the father had lost his job or had some other financial problems that he was sharing with the child and not with the mother.

Considering the catastrophe that even a false accusation of molestation can involve, I would not have reported it unless the girl was much more explicit in explaining what the secret was. It would not be hard to elicit more definite information from her before reporting it.

That is why I think he/she did the right thin; hopefully referring the child to a professional was the right thing to do in that the person the child sees should be able to determine what is going on without scaring the child any further. It would be a mistake to have me ask her because I really would botch up the job - I'm a bit of a clumsy oaf socially - but someone who knows what they are doing should be able to calmly discover the facts.

If you have the money or can raise or borrow it, you don't go into one of these investigations without a lawyer, and a retainer for that is anywhere between $3 and $10 grand.

We tend to think that the goal of the "professionals" is to find the truth. It isn't. It's to take away custody of children from parents, in the same way that the institutional goal of police and prosecutors is not to "protect us" or "find the truth," but to make arrests and get convictions, regardless of the truth or guilt or innocence. That's not because the individual child care specialist, police officer or district attorney is a bad person; it's because that's how their institutions are set up, and that's what they reward members for doing or punish them for not doing.

Once something like this is reported, regardless of whether the father is guilty, tremendous pressure will be brought to bear for the father to "confess" and "get treatment," even if he is innocent.

For these institutions the goal is not to "find the truth," but to "process cases." That means a plea of some kind and supervision, regardless of what "really happened."

I would not have reported it unless the child explicitly admitted something like, "he touched me" or otherwise indicated abuse.

In the real world many parents share all kinds of "secrets" with their children, even if it stresses out the child. That's no reason for getting them involved in the monster of state and local government.

Good argument.

Teachers are usually mandated reporters. That means reporting exactly this type of thing. It might as well be an exercise out of the training manuals.

Not reporting such a conversation with a student in most jurisdictions would be flat out illegal.

Even if the issue IS the father loosing a job (and it may well be)... the school councilors etc. benefit from being aware of the fact that it is going on and is having a serious effect on the child.

I don't think, given familiar reality, that if a child is simply saying she has a sad secret, one has to conclude there might be abuse.

In fact, my first impression on reading the OP was that the father had lost his job -- and that that was the secret.

It should be reported accurately of course. The child didn't say there was any abuse. But it should be reported. Your personal paranoia not withstanding.

If it happens you guessed wrong, it's better to err on the side of the child.

You absolutely did the right thing. I guarantee you you're instincts were right. Good goddess, the things people do to children.

I only pray that the system follows your lead and actually helps this girl.

"Scars on her wrists"

Depression is a terrible thing, and if the girl has gone to the extent of harming herself there may be some other issues at stake that haven't been touched on.

Things to look at before assuming it's sexual or other forms of physical abuse.

1) Is she able to afford lunch, or bring her own? (Finacial downturn, poverty)
2) Are her clothes clean, and does she at least try to dress like other kids? (Peer pressure- Finances)
3) Does she care about her appearance? Too much, too little? (Too much = Overdone makeup and hair, fussy clothes etc. Too Little = Constantly covering up, doesn't brush her hair etc.)
4) Does she have any friends? If so, have the relationships changed in any way? IE: Less contact, More contact, Camping out at their house? If not, is she avoiding trying to make friends? How does she interact with the other students in the class?
5) Does she dress appropriately for the weather? IE- Does she wear warm clothes when its cold...cool when its hot?
6) Look at her face, does she look fatigued- Tense? (lines between her brows, on her forehead) Does she smile at all, laugh?
7) Does she have a boyfriend, or a crush? How do boys look at her?
8) Is there anything in her school record that states she should have special considerations? (Time outs, composure minutes in the bathroom)


She may well have tried to hurt herself again, and dad didn't want mom to know because of what's happened in the past. Dad may very well be trying to "protect" her from a shrink, thinking it will just mess her up worse.

As a teacher you are in a unique position to be able to make comparisons, where most of my judgment is based on maybe an hours worth of contact because I'm in EMS.

I suppose my ultimate question is this...
"How well do you know this child?"
If the answer is not very well, perhaps you should try to get to know her a little bit better before jumping to conclusions. You could be her saving grace if it is depression, by simply having her know that you are there and she's not alone.

I guess my point to this whole rambling post is this: YES, you did the right thing reporting it. Don't sweat that in the slightest. However, I just sincerely hope you didn't allow visceral reactions to taint what may actually be going on. Human beings are complicated creatures, and there are a ton of things that can mess us up. If there are mental issues, having an accusation like that could well finish tearing the family up and I know that's not what you want to do. I have the gut feeling that you only want to see that young girl smile.

:hug:

thank you.

When I was a kid I was afraid to report my dad for beating me and my mom because I didn't know if there was some lag of time where he could get revenge, whether or not I'd be vulnerable.

Good for you!

And I can tell you that you did exactly the right thing.
It is important to believe the child, and it is better to err on the side of caution, for the child's sake.

The program I worked for is called CAP and has been around since 1978. They run workshops in schools and other places to teach kids as young as 2 or 3 how to protect themselves from bullying and abuse, and to tell a trusted adult if it happens. I used to be part of a team that presented workshops and talked afterwards with kids who went through it. Many times these kids reported abuse to us after a workshop. We were trained how to handle these disclosures and report them to Child Protective Services.

Here is a link to the International CAP website:
http://www.internationalcap.org/

and here is their info on identifying signs of abuse:

http://www.internationalcap.org/abuse_identify.html

you'll be more amazed when you find that this 13 year old is shacking up with an 18 year old just out of prison, and they just stole the keys to you Lexus SUV.

... been there.. done that....