Rick Warren Cites Hitler Youth as Model For Christian Dedication

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/1/15/183634/970

Audio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRctKSeyQ-s

On April 17, 2005, at the southern California Anaheim Angels sports stadium thirty thousand Saddleback Church members, more than ever gathered in one spot, assembled to celebrate Saddleback's 25th anniversary and listened as Rick Warren announced his vision for the next 25 years of the church: the P.E.A.C.E. Plan.

Towards the close of his nearly one hour speech, Pastor Warren asked his followers to be as committed to Jesus as the young Nazi men and women who spelled out in mass formation with their bodies the words "Hitler, we are yours," in 1939 at the Munich Stadium, were committed to the Führer of the Third Reich, a major instigator of a World War that claimed 55 million lives. Rick Warren has exhorted Christians towards Nazi-like dedication in at least several public speeches and also during a one hour video recording of a talk by Warren, explaining his P.E.A.C.E. Plan, that is currently hosted on the official P.E.A.C.E. Plan website (see 'video page', "The Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan"). A version of the anecdote can also be found on page 357 of Rick Warren's 1995 book The Purpose Driven Church, which sold over one million copies.

During his Anaheim stadium speech Warren, sometimes called 'pastor Rick' talked about a number of visions and communications he had received from God. By calling on his church members to follow Jesus with the fanatical dedication with which the Nazis, or Hitler Youth, gave to Adolf Hitler, Rick Warren appeared to be in effect asking his Saddleback members to be fanatically dedicated to Warren's own leadership, given his role in divining God's intent for the Saddleback church flock. During his speech, Rick Warren also explained that God had personally instructed him to seek, for the good of the world, more influence, power and fame.

NT!

but we won't be doing anything

:cry:

"Ohio Pol Arrested for Running Hooker Review Site

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4840674

to decide the facts.

:rofl:

I'm so pleased with myself Im ashamed.

Which will streamline things as there won't be a need for any evidence.

While having an openly gay fellow like John Berry give the invocation.

Now if he just got it the other way around. Can you imagine anyone deliberately overlooking his OPM appointment and staying convinced that Obama was anti-gay?

Wow, that'd be a real stretch.


Seriously though; when he does do 'a damn thing', are you finally going to quit with the griping?

obama has already proven he could care less about gay persons, let alone the entire GBLT community...

This asswipe should not be legitamized!

This is deliberate. It is right in line with keeping Robert Gates, rewarding Lieberman, and all the other fingers-in-the-eye that have come our way as of November 5, 2008. Look at what Eric Holder is going through right now, that Gates was allowed to skip right past! Look at the high and mighty right-hand of the throne suddenly occupied by that toe-dancer Lindsey Graham! Look who is STILL AT THE HELM, while Democrats, who WON, grovel for favor at the feet of the party of war criminals who lost! Look at the repugnant position Obama has put his (our) people in! Where the hell did Chuck Hagel disappear to??? Why is it that for Preszit Bush, General Petraeus (and others) served at the pleasure of the president, but for Preznit Obama, Petraeus (and others) can't be replaced no matter what?

It's like Rachel Maddow says: We are having Post-partisan Kumbaya Amnesia! This is CONTINUITY we can believe in!

Just what the fuck is going on? Oh, weeee'll find out, and soon I bet! What's fucked is US.

(A little f-wording does make a lady feel better sometimes, lol. Thanks DU. It's all I've got left now that hope is GONE.)

What's going on right now?

I've heard this meme now for nearly a year, "hope is for suckers" maybe you're right but cynicism inspires me to give up and do nothing.

As to your namesake, Charlotte Corday was a brave woman, who did something incredibly stupid to make a political statement that not only destroyed her, but thousands of innocents as well. I hope you have better judgment, but looking at your post, I fear not.

to be unhappy and distrustful of Obama. Maybe misread the name of the website to be "wehatedemocratsunderground.com"?

You're not gonna stab him while in his bath, are you?

At least wait until after the 20th!

Never. Not him! Not even close! Regarding that, I will choose my battles. In fact, I MISSED my battle if I'm ever going to resort to THAT again.

:fistbump:

(How come my smilies don't work? Who I gotta kill to get those?)

As the old saying goes. And this dog has a lot a lotta fleas. He has fleas that keep on giving. His fleas have fleas.

trust him but when he f's up I will say so.

and it's become a DISTURBING PATTERN now...

this guy is POS, I don't care what he ALLEGES to have done to combat AIDS in Africa.

Warren's programs in Africa are culturally and medically inappropriate. They are based on abstinence-only, married-sex-only approaches that completely ignore the realities of how HIV is spread. Warren's work in Africa is causing a lot more harm than good. The only people it helps are the CEOs and major stockholders of pharmaceutical companies.

:evilgrin:

Couldn't you email Stephen and let him know he has one more reason to admire Rick Warren?

As far as contacting Dr. Colbert, I believe I am not allowed to contact him while the trial is still being decided.

:)

We can still put food on our families. We can still appreciate OBGYN love.

If Rick Warren wants to muster his followers in the tradition of other world leaders, we can't allow the liberal media to get in his way. I say, the liberal media should work with him and advertise his Nazi rallies so he can get the turnout he deserves!

:rofl:

:)

Seriously, Pastor Warren that sucked. I get the idea, one should hold as strongly to one's ideals as the Nazis defended their evil, but anytime one uses the Nazis as an exemplar of virtue its an automatic epic fail.

It's like that psycho teacher-woman in the Jesus Camp documentary, all feverish and aroused, eyes aglitter, lips moist, panting about how the Muslims "teach their kids to kill for their faith," how righteous she finds that, and how worthy of imitation here in Der American Homeland.

Psychotic. But now recognized and honored. We are so fucked.

Personally I feel she should have been arrested for child abuse.

n/t

When asked to follow blindly "like Nazis did", they do, without thinking, "it was a really bad idea then, might not be such a good idea now."

how did so many idiots get suckered into fundamental beliefs. This is how our schools have really failed us. Millions of people without critical thought in every level of society. It's a nightmare.

:shrug:

with cute uniforms and a snappy marching band.

He's got the Yellow and Black Attack!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUuYh0nEiA4

Hmm, wonder why that is? Amazing, the guy actually found a way to be creepier.
Thanks for posting.

This guy is a nutter

"But we can change him, you'll see!"

it was KRAP then, and it's KRAP still...

:puke:

I wish it was Gene Robinson who had the main stage instead of this homophobic, heretical, asshole.

:eyes:

on a discussion board who probably isn't out there in the trenches everyday FIGHTING!!1 why aren't you at Saddleback Church PROTESTING RIGHT NOW??!! JUST AS I THOUGHT....:eyes:

oh yeah, and besides, Obama is EVERYBODY'S president!1 (almost forgot that one)



:hi:

What is he, a congenital idiot?

Can't say I'm surprised. Thanks for the post. Any ideas on getting this into the MSM? Anyone?

Edit: Sorry-- intended to reply to OP.

Seems to be a common affliction in that scene.

He wants a hive mind, a mind that (his perception of) Jesus rules. He is a megalomaniac and I agree, to qualify him by having him speak at the inauguration is questionable to say the least. I understand Obama wants to rally people too, but using Hitler as a role model is unforgivable.

promotes unity at all. It only legitimizes them.

Perhaps embracing him in hopes of gaining the confidence of his followers? I hope it is something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxW4U-SOqN8

Founding fathers and mothers left us a mandate
We've got to separate the church and the state
So get your head straight before it's too late
And you drop it in the plate, you must appreciate

Jesus and money make a man speak in tongues
Scream out his lungs, roll in the dung
And when the song is sung, he moves up another rung
And the deaf and the dumb are the ones who get stung

Here comes the sex police, they're at your bedroom door
Movin' in next door, searchin' from floor to floor
You know what they're lookin' for
Someone's always keepin' score every time you dip the oar

Love isn't fun no more

Fascist christ, come to the rescue
Gimme that old time religion, here it comes

Let's get fundamental about this strange philosophy
In which god and man are enemies
In which there is no serenity unless you happen to believe
Precisely what they want you to believe, and no diversity

Come join the army and learn the noises
That drown out the others' voices and please the devil
Who rejoices when mankind has no choices
And power exploits us, and peace avoids us

Guess who to the rescue on a holy mission
To uphold the tradition of the Spanish Inquisition
And preempt your decision by forcing your confession
Now let that be a lesson

Who do you think you're messin' with?

Somebody took our god away

For your viewing enjoyment, here is his diary and accompanying comments on Daily Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/1/15/172554/953/915/684537

I am forced to endure Wife Swap playing in the background & I ws struck by how rigid, dogmatic, & authoritarian the various Christian families seemed. They are attempting to "live like it's 1 A.D." The hostility towards feminine authority are most alarming, we need to figure out a way to limit their influence. The "Prosperity" swindle, the hatred of science, the bizarre fetus fetish, the rejection of heliocentric reality......it's.....perhaps.....dangerous.

And in the future I'm sure you'll be sure to qualify your complex analysis as being of CONSERVATIVE Christians, and not Christians in general.

but if what I described doesn't apply to you then don't get offended. But, YES, I DO suspect, for various reasons-mostly astrotheological-that as we get further into the 21st century, there will be a further schism within ALL 12th House religions: that is Christians, Muslims, Bhuddhists, Daoists, Confucianists, for the simple reason that their primary deity is not on 1st-perhaps you noticed the nearly worldwide "who's on first" ditty? While I feel quite certain that the biggest picture eludes you I hope you comprehend the essential point I made.

You know, it's ALL "Christian Bashing" when someone complains about 10 Commandment Monuments, "innocent" staff-led school prayers, that sort of thing. Because, you know, we hate God.

& it's not perhaps-they definately have moved further to the right in the last 20 years, it is a shock to me how far since I left/lost my religion.

What was considered a Conservative Christian 20 years ago is now closer to "mainstream"-THAT is what alarms me & disgusta me.

http://www.geocentricbible.com/
http://www.galileowaswrong.com/

But I'm Atheist, after many years of feigned agnosticism. Now I'm free!!

it's the House that the Fisher of Men rules.

the church. Had your kind stayed (well our kind, since I left too) perhaps Christanity would be more liberal in this country.

Preachers are hired and paid by congregations (in certain protestant churches anyway) so they more or less say what is expected of them.

This notion that if you stay, you can change things from the inside is just nonsense. Look at the Log Cabinettes. They claim they're changing the GOP from the inside - and all they've really done is bend over the grab their ankles for Rove.

is Hitler youth? I guess that says where old boy's mind really is pretty clearly.

I still call the whole scenario the same way because I always thought the kat was a low down snake but that has nothing to do with using your tools (and I do mean tools) to your advantage. Many of the 46% that voted McCain as well as the other 5-6% that could float either way need to be disarmed by hook or crook. We all know this guy is scum and a horrible bigot but if he deflects heat that allows progress to be made then, I still say so be it.

Politics is an ugly and shady game. I figure we play to win, and its working to some degree, the choice and the blow back have ignited what probably is a productive dialog that has people that were completely oblivious or wrong minded making up or changing their minds for universal rights for all our people. I'd take a lugi in the eye for that but then I see symbolism as a tool of mass influence and control more than meaningful in and of it's self.

Warren is a huge pile of shit but use may well be made of him.

Religion is all about control. Keep those tithes and offering coming in folks

empty him out of any power whatsoever.

Don't forget, Hitler was a failed artist, who managed to design buildings, spoke to the drunken poor in beer halls. Most of the people who bring up Hitler, especially on DU have never suffered, never spent a day without the internet, and so all they did was pass on the charisma of his excesses and say stuff like, Bush is a nazi and I suffer so. I've been reading DU for a long time, lots of idiots who called up gassings and Hitler's crimes to make some point that was so suburban, it was laughable.

Can't fault the right hand when the left decides to masturbate.

sounds like you didn't even watch it.

Then to complain when Warren uses him, is laughable. That's all.

Warren used Hitler and compared the devotion of his followers used for evil purposes as compared to what can be done for good purposes.

It was lame and shows his extremely poor grasp of inspiring people through speech. What is does not demonstrate is his request for his followers to be like Nazis.

...somewhat of a rare find these days. Thanks.
quickesst

First of all, Hitler and the Nazis didn't exist in a vacuum. Are we supposed to pretend that they never existed? When we see world leaders engaging in the very same demagoguery, using the same politics of fear that Hitler did, we're not allowed to make a comparison?

But most importantly, there is a HUGE difference between comparing someone to the Nazis, and someone like Warren asking his supporters to use the Nazis as a role model. Surely you can see how that is different? This isn't merely a case of DUers calling Warren's followers a bunch of mindless Nazis. Warren himself is asking his followers to be like the Nazis.

at least we know WHAT you are...

oh, and it was the asshole WARREN who is "bringing up" Nazi's, asshole...

The dude is on a Messianic totalitarian trip.

:spray:

:rofl:

Over on Kos, the discussion is tending to focus on 'why Hitler and Mao?' to illustrate the devotion of followers as opposed to King or Ghandi.

Hitler and Mao were so 'completely evil', yet Warren clearly appreiciates the fact that they could whip their followers into a blind and violent frenzy., Besides, they made the trains run on time.

King and Ghandi are too anti-authoritarian.

Warren wants these souls for his own narcisstic purposes. And he has come with a fucking sword to claim them.

:puke: :puke: :puke:

not just belief, but fanatical devotion to... I wonder when they will strap bombs to themselves to try to get the point across?

I thought of that when reading Warren's weird comments about wanting to sleep with a lot of 'beautiful women.'

Something about 72 Virgins rang a bell...

There actually are followers of Christ out there who try very hard to follow his words with their actions.

Hell, Bill Moyers could have come up with a stunning invocation that would have touched everyone. Opportunity LOST.

every sermon every candidate's ever delivered? Talk about torture.

That's what the Internet is for, as a place for thousands of fanatical political hacks to vet people after the fact.

He made the Anaheim speech on April 17, 2005. Not yet four years. The OP says he also told the same Nazi rally story in his book back in 95. So he wrote it down 13 years ago and repeated it in public, in a stadium no less, just a short time ago, at the largest gathering his chruch has done. At a historic sermon heard my thousands of people.
So facts are facts. Not 13 years ago as much as you would like that to be true. April 17, 2005.

We all do.

I'm not wishing anything to be true.

that there's any utility in reaching out to Warren and his ilk, then he's a fool.

I don't know what Obama's plan is but I predict it's going to come to a bad end.

This isn't about reaching out to those opposed to building a bike trail in your community, or building consensus around any of a number of social issues, endeavors that I would totally support.

Rick Warren and others on the extreme right have gotten to where they are by focusing laser-like on their goals. There is no room for compromise. And their goals have nothing to do with democracy, freedom of religion or the social contract.

I have difficulty in Obama reaching out to the very people who endorsed this evil administration and sought to defeat him. Warren and his throng of mindless zombies supported an evil administration that condoned torture, spying on citizens, outing of a CIA agent, and murdering thousands of innocent Iraqis. I doubt that even one of these mindless freaks voted for him. They not only opposed Obama but endorsed McCain who wanted to continue the same illegal policies. This appeasement crap has gone far enough for me.

is bad policy. It only validates them and encourages them.

All of this talk about "reaching out" and "keeping your enemies close" is rubbish. Bigots like Warren should be held up as an example of what not to be. He should be ridiculed and ostracized for his repressive and dangerous acts.

Maybe people ought to question their 'purposes' more carefully.

Nice Nuremberg, I mean Annaheim, rally.

To me, that is an atrocity worthy of Nazism.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/22/lkl.01.html

Up till now I thought he was trying to insult Michael. Now I understand that he was complimenting him.

:applause:

And I'd point out again that it is from April 17, 2005.

How in the H can anyone deny that this guy is a legend in his own mind and a dangerous one for sure! It just isn't about gay marriage, or women's rights, or control issues and even faith-based money, it is about his vision for the world!

Even Time Magazine saw it last year:

The Global Ambition of Rick Warren
By David Van Biema Thursday, Aug. 07, 2008

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1830147,00.html

(snip)

If Warren were content to be merely the most influential religious figure on the American political scene, that would be significant enough. He isn't. Five years ago, he concocted what he calls the PEACE plan, a bid to turn every single Christian church on earth into a provider of local health care, literacy and economic development, leadership training and spiritual growth. The enterprise has collected testimonials from Bono, the First Couple, Hillary Clinton, Obama, McCain and Graham, who called it "the greatest, most comprehensive and most biblical vision for world missions I've ever heard or read about." The only thing bigger than the plan's sheer nerve is the odds against its completion; there are signs that in the small country Warren has made a laboratory for the plan, PEACE is encountering as many problems as it has solved.

Having staked so much on his global initiative, Warren can't allow it to die. But the scale of his ambition does raise questions that confront the American Evangelical movement as a whole as it tries to graduate from a domestic political force into a global benefactor. In fact, it is easier to save souls than to save the world.

(snip)

The Rwandan Model

The first nation to be so claimed — or to claim PEACE, really — was Rwanda. In 2005, Paul Kagame, who overthrew the genocidal regime of the small central African nation and later became its President, appeared at a celebration for Saddleback's 25th anniversary. Warren revealed that Kagame intended Rwanda to become the "first purpose-driven nation."

(snip)

When Warren hears that other NGOs in Rwanda repeatedly told TIME that PEACE could offer no working examples of tangible aid-and-development projects, he laughs for 10 full seconds. "You were talking to the wrong guys," he says. Most aid-and-development experts, he claims, depend on Western-style measurements and reports. Rwandan churches, he says, have neither the time nor the obligation to produce them. Moreover, he asserts that executing a program involving spiritual goals through churches initially produces "results that tend not to be programmatic — they tend to be life change."

(much more at the link)

...........

Is this the kind of "life change" we want to promote from faith-base $$$$! I think not! I hope to God someone is listening and will pass on the real TRUTH!

:applause:

Many on this board will be OFF the Obama support team if he continues down this road of being agreeable and accepting of Warren despite his demented worldview! The guy is a real threat to freedom.


Again, Warren is a threat to freedom!


Again, Warren is a threat to freedom!


Wake up you non-believers - Warren is a threat to freedom! Many of you are very anti-religion, yet you act as if this guy's just giving a 2 minute prayer. His reach goes far when he's got the next president propping his fame up on Inauguration Day and he has millions to push his message along with that new found world fame.

I hate that "rule". Sometimes the analogy fits.

Godwin can go straight to hell. I read somewhere once that he was actually a 25%er who was creating that Usenet "rule" because the comparisons to modern republicans and neoconservatives were too apt, and he was trying to defuse them before they started by saying "you mention Hitler, you lose the argument".

Wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that's the exact truth.

just like clockwork...

Führer Warren.

that Warren could have used for single-minded determination. Yet, he chose this one. Any psychotherapist worth his/her salt could tell you that his choice of this particular analogy tells you an awful lot about Warren and what's going on in his mind.

and when it did, it should have never left his lips. Oh well. We all know he's a tool with foot in the mouth disease. What's new? :shrug:

(btw, congrats for working "lips", "tool" and "mouth" into one sentence about Warren.)

Give me a goddamned break. What a bull-goose loony.

the fanaticism in these RW religious groups really needs to be dealt with. Their not Christian when they behave like this but rather using religion to lord it over others. Rick Warren is like so many others that use religion to glorify themselves. Obama made a big mistake putting this guy forward at the inauguration, it's just adding fuel to the fire.

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Praise the lord and pass the Kool-Aid.

Whatever happened to all that love, compassion and forgiveness that Jesus talked about? Trumped by the Almighty?(the Almighty Dollar)

It's one thing to be wildly popular... yet somehow it doesn't strike these folks as odd to be deliberately praising the tactics of great Christian leaders like Hitler and Chairman Mao? Holy cognitive dissonance, Batman!

I guess the Baby knows the dangers of "radical" propaganda when the Baby hears it.

n/t

he wanted to have sex with every beautiful woman he saw. This guy is a narcissistic sociopath. This guy is an abomination. He has no business anywhere, let alone in the national spotlight. What could cause anybody to say anything like that on national TV. This is insight into a very dangerous mind.

well understood it -- also value of getting them while they're young -- !!!

So this idea is now making full circle -- from Vatican to Hitler to Warren -- !!!

Also, Hitler found inspiration in US government's RESERVATIONS for native Americans --

The Hitler Youth would've sent Jesus to a camp?

Not as a dig at Obama

But as a reminder of just how moderate Rick warren really is

get rid of that lunatic.Tic,Tic,Tic...

"Whatever it takes" is the same as "By any means necessary".

that speaks to 30,000 "congregants" at one time!

I would never attend a church with more than 300 members. (Except for someone else's wedding or memorial or some one-time event.)

And don't expect me to be buying his books anytime soon.

And don't expect me to teach a Sunday School class around one of his books.

nathan hale does NOT approve of the cult of personality.

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Just what I said up there. Spiritually retarded.

crime against humanity.
Anyone advocating such madness should not be given such a soapbox as warren has been offered.