New Sign of Brain Damage in N.F.L

Brain damage commonly associated with boxers has been found in a sixth deceased former N.F.L. player age 50 or younger, further stoking the debate between many doctors and the league over the significance of such findings.
Doctors at Boston University’s School of Medicine found a condition called chronic traumatic encephalopathy in the brain of Tom McHale, an N.F.L. lineman from 1987 to 1995 who died in May at age 45. Known as C.T.E., the progressive condition results from repetitive head trauma and can bring on dementia in someone in their 40s or 50s.

Using techniques that can be administered only after a patient has died, doctors have now identified C.T.E. in all six N.F.L. veterans between the ages of 36 and 50 who have been tested for the condition, further evidencing the dangers of improperly treated brain trauma in football.

“It’s scary — it’s horribly frightening,” said Randy Grimes, who played center next to McHale on the Buccaneers for several years. “I’ve had my share of concussions, too. More than my share. My wife says I have short-term memory loss. It’s really scary to think of what might be going on up there.”

The McHale case was announced Tuesday afternoon at a news conference in Tampa — where McHale had lived and where the Super Bowl will take place on Sunday — held by Boston University’s Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy.

“This is a medically significant finding,” said Dr. Daniel P. Perl, the director of neuropathology at the Mt. Sinai School of Medicine in New York, who is not affiliated with the Boston University group. “I think with a sixth case identified, out of six, for a condition that is incredibly rare in the general population, there is more than enough evidence that football is clearly strongly related to the presence of this pathology.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/sports/football/28brain.html?_r=1&hp


(this is serious, and not a parody)

Just like using steroids, it can make the difference in their children never having to work or their children and their children never having to work. Many of them have said they will gladly trade a couple of years of lifespan for that.

(I hope you don't have me on ignore; I know we have our differences, but we have similarities too... :) )

:hi:

with you or any of the over 100,000 users of DU.

At first look, yes, they make tons of money. But remember, most of these injuries are found in linemen, generally the lowest paid starters on the typical NFL roster. Most NFL players have a career of about 3 or 4 years. Suddenly, they are either back in the non-football world or they are playing for peanuts in the CFL or one of the arena leagues.

Worse, for years, the NFL Player's Association did an abysmal job of protecting the post-football interests of players. Pensions were lousy, and there was little in terms of aftercare for football-related disabilities.

They chose a profession with risks.

I'm not sure it quite compensates for an early grave or the twilight years turning into the nightmare years where one's body and brain are decomposing in the midst of life. This is not exactly what they signed on for when they started playing football at 11 or 12 (or earlier) and found out that they were not just good, but world class.

And our society pays handsomely to watch young men do this to themselves. We pack the stadiums and follow their exploits with all the focus and attention our wired society can muster, and boy, is it a lot!

It's pretty easy to spot the problem. I'm not sure what the solution is. We might begin with a de-emphasis on professional sports. But I'm not even sure how we'd begin to do that.

No thanks.

Please don't confuse the average football player with the stars, okay?

For every NFL player, there are many more who pursue the position in the mistaken idea they will have a chance -- along the way tending to bang their heads and mess up their joints even worse than the good players do.

It has its spectacle, I can't help liking to watch a few games a year, though I don't pay for it. It's a terrible sport to encourage among the young. So many follow false hope into the football system in varsity and college for every one who's going to see at least a scholarship for the battering and the risk, let a lone a salary down the line.

I don't want to take it away from them either -- they should know to make their own choices, even at that age -- and obviously it's got its passion and pleasure, people want to play. But let's not paint a rosy picture of it. Let's just be real.

Once in the NFL, unlike baseball, only stars have guaranteed contracts. Injury can end a career instantly, and often does. The average NFL career is about 4 years. Typically linemen get beat up in relative anonymity for six figures (not guaranteed), so they get paid very well for a few years but not necessarily enough to be set for life (let alone have their children not work!). Then they can wait another 35 for the pension. Maybe they invest wisely and prosper, maybe they can start a successful new career; maybe not.

occupations.

Their contracts are generally not guaranteed, and their careers are very short. Sure, they earn a very nice living, but I don't think very many players can set their kids up for life.

Now, baseball and basketball...yow. Those dudes make out. I know the money manager of a household name player who
has $70 MILLION to his name.

Wow.

understand?

If they saved that up and were prudent with it, they should never have to work much again.

When you consider the artificial salary cap (extra profits for the owners), the very brief careers (more profits for the owners), and terrible representation of their so-called union (even more profit for the owners), they are among the lowest paid professional athletes in Amerika.

I feel sorry for the players, but at least they can afford the health care. Paid for by "inverse socialism".

Sure, they make good six figure salaries, but the tend to have a career that is over in less than five years.

Every one of them. if Chris Williams gets better from his back problem, then they will have one offensive lineman who doesn't make 7 figures, because he'll be on his rookie contract.

But, Kreutz, St. Clair, Tait, Harris, Ogunleye, Anderson, and the rest of the bunch are all 7 figure guys, and they all got 7 figure signing bonuses that are, in fact, guaranteed money.

So, at least for the Bears, your "very few" seems questionable. That's 7 out of 10 linemen, and 6 of 10 have been in the league for MORE than 5 years.
GAC

Astounding.

Legions of NFL fans seem to have fallen victim too.

after watching youth football i could actually believe this condition could start at a young age. if a player starts at age 8 by the time they retire at 35(?) that would be 27 years of playing football as a sport then a profession. that`s a lot of cumulative hits to the head

The OP compares it to the sport of boxing. Although I consider football to be a violent sport, I know that Boxing has the potential to cause brain damage. There are two general types, which have to do with where on the head a person is hit. (Being hit in the front of the head causes damage that is distinct from blows to the back of the head.)

There are two times in life when a person is more vulnerable -- the first being in their youth, and the second being in the late 30s or older. The most recent studies have focused on the second group, but the damage done when a person has a long career (youth through later adulthood) accumulates.

eom

They'd have to start playing touch, basically.

(I mean, okay, they can lower the tar, right? Then less people will get cancer!)

In another 20 years it might be established that football is causing brain damage to tens of thousands of young people who never get anywhere near the NFL. And the sport will decline as a result of both voluntary choices and increasingly restrictive regulation.

Or maybe in another 20 years, gen-engineered 7-foot 520 lb. hulks with double the skull thickness will work off their prison sentences by spending most of the week in regenerative nutrient baths in preparation for smashing into each other in an ultra-violent, 90 minute version of the game.

WTF do I know!!!

That isn't going to happen either.

:shrug:

I can't believe what monsters these guys are, nowadays. Especially the Giants - literally!

They'd have to start playing touch, basically.

(I mean, okay, they can lower the tar, right? Then less people will get cancer!)

In another 20 years it might be established that football is causing brain damage to tens of thousands of young people who never get anywhere near the NFL. And the sport will decline as a result of both voluntary choices and increasingly restrictive regulation.

Or maybe in another 20 years, gen-engineered 7-foot 520 lb. hulks with double the skull thickness will work off their prison sentences by spending most of the week in regenerative nutrient baths in preparation for smashing into each other in an ultra-violent, 90 minute version of the game.

WTF do I know!!!

This is to be expected, along with neurological symptoms for other atheletes who sustain impacts to the head.

What I want to know is why people like me are losing our minds! LOL

boxer who used to be brilliant and someone I had met and respected, who is now in really bad shape but keeps fighting anyway.

The greatest invention of all time is the forward pass.

They have a lot of concussions there too - headers! Seriously. And lots of dirty play, too. Spikes are murder on the ankles.

But seriously. Out of 3 hours, American football offers 60 minutes of beer and car ads, 60 minutes of rulings and litigation, 54 minutes of huddling and maneuvers, and 6 minutes of mayhem. And you're going to call futbol's 90 minutes of pure uninterrupted man-to-man (or woman-to-woman) combat boring?

They kick the ball around for a minute or two trying to set up a play. The play nearly always fails because they either lose control of the ball and it gets taken by the other side or more likely goes out of bounds, and then the other side spends a minute or so trying to set up a play with similarly disappointing results. Once in a while they shoot at the goal and frequently shoot too high, if not it's almost always blocked. Add in the occasional failed corner kick. What a fucking snooze!

We've all had our say on these life-altering matters.

Must see soccer video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVim7rjfKOQ

:eyes:

If the readers among us weather the occasional exchange with the rah-rah yahoo faction, you can probably rise above frightened rigidity long enough to own the fact that you've already responded to my posts several times.

google it

Still doesn't happen enough to justify watching a whole match though

just me :shrug: no actually not it is a whole lot of people

I find it almost impossible to watch an entire baseball game (the Braves are the background noise for southern summers though)

Eduardo is back after the injury
http://www.premiershiplatest.com/news/eduardo-claims-he-set-be-back-arsenal-s--5516890.html

Arsenal Hitman Eduardo Ready For First Team After 11 Month Injury
http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/105/main/2009/01/22/1073024/arsenal-hitman-eduardo-ready-for-first-team-after-11-month-injur

but soccer players don't wear 40 lbs of gear to protect them like football. Their bodies are pretty much exposed to anything.

Note that the military term armor has both a defensive and an offensive sense.

Some guy rolls around on the ground like he's dying. Curls up in a fetal ball. Gets carried off the field on a stretcher. Runs triumphantly back onto the field at the next substitution.

That's entertainment.

We've been saying that about Andy Reid for YEARS now...

...and rarely pressed to excel in the classroom, only to maintain eligibility.

In general, golfers are the smartest (very few do not have a college degree).

Football - need to go to college, many graduate. There are some morons but they are pretty smart on average.

Basketball - most went to college but did not stay long.

Hockey - most stopped going to real school very early to go to youth hockey.

Baseball - same story as hockey with the foreign players. A lot of Americans went straight from high school. Some are functionally illiterate (school not too important in the Dominican Republic)

Anyway, these are HUGE broad brushes and are built on prejudice and limited personal perception.

I can't say much about tennis except they seem to be a thoughtful bunch. Jockeys tend to be kinda dim.

...baseball teams have about 20-25 members, basketball about half of that and football anywhere from around 50 in the pro ranks to twice that in the collegiate game. Naturally, the sampling of football players gives a wider cross-section of intelligence as compared to other sports.

Troops (and civilians in Iraq and now Afganistan) are receiving similar brain injuries from repeated concusions from roadside bombs and rockets.

Troops are coming home with PTSD and the brain injuries, neither of which is getting diagnosed.

The brain injuries are not showing up in the CAT scans and MRI's.. and many doctors are just trying different anti anxiety and anti depression drugs that are just making matters worse.

that is the old saying about what EACH GAME in the league is like
the body basically goes through 50 car wrecks in a 3 hour period

okay that might be overstating it a bit but whenever I hear some duffelbag ranting about how HE played the game (in high school)
I tell him to go outside, fall down on the ground 5 times, and then tell us how he feels tomorrow

My stepmom's dad played for Detroit back in the 40s, my ex-stepdad played for MSU, too, and my stepbrother played college ball at Albion. I grew up in a football family, and let me tell ya, those brain injuries start early. Concussions were a common thing in our house with both stepbrothers playing up through high school and one going on to college. I well remember one time when my older stepbrother got sacked so hard that he didn't know the date, his name, or where he was only to have the coach put him back in ten minutes later. My stepmom almost started a riot amongst the parents up in the stands, she was so furious. The coach wouldn't release him, though, so we got to take him to the hospital after the game, and my stepmom stayed up with him all night that night to make sure he didn't slip away in his sleep.

My son's built perfectly for football, and I just can't do it. I'm hoping he'll go for another sport.

Adults are free to make a choice, if they have all the facts, but the facts about the extent of football related chronic traumatic encephalopathy are just starting to be discovered.

But a larger issue is that most of the people who play football are from elementary school to college age.

They've tried to reduce head injuries and they've tried to encourage players from playing too soon after getting a head injury. It appears though that no amount of time is really enough time. It maybe there is simple nothing they can do about this problem.

more than rich jocks who willingly subject themselves to repeated brain injury for shitloads of money. Too bad for them, but smoking gives you cancer, saturated fat clogs your arteries, and getting your melon whacked really hard every week makes you stupid. Just glad neither of my boys stayed with football for very long.

We get evidence that a popular sport is seriously damaging participants and shortening their lifespans and the response is "They chose to do it, and they're well paid"? So were Roman gladiators, and I don't see any movement to bring back that particular entertainment (though I suspect Fox would give it a try were they allowed).

Do the math. For each famous NFL player paid millions, how many college players are there? For each kid who got a football scholarship, how many high school players are there? For each high school star, how many others played the game? We're possibly talking millions of young men putting their future well being on the line and for what? For a weekend's entertainment. There is something seriously wrong here.

Pediatricians have suspected this for years. I don't know of a single one who will allow his or her son to play football, and most try to discourage their patients from doing so as well. The American Academy of Pediatrics has denounced boxing for exactly this reason: we've known for a long time that repetitive concussions are dangerous, particularly to still-developing brains. At the very least, the way the game is coached in amateur leagues needs to change. Players who've sustained a head impact need to be given enough time to recover - sometimes weeks if they've been knocked unconscious - before being put back in the game. We need to explore whether changes in the rules, or in protective equipment, could lessen the damage.

And maybe we need to find some other way to pass our time. Tennis sounds good.

think of the improved entertainment value of having the combatants err players, die right then and there on the field instead of years later from dementia.

:sarcasm:

I'm with you. I don't think football as a US institution has much redeeming value.

If the amount and degree of brain injury was consistent across all levels, you might have a point, but that's just not the way it is. The pro level is by definition a game played by extreme outliers of the millions who play: biggest, fastest, strongest, nimblest, toughest...and even smartest (there is an outstanding book out about the intelligence level of professional linemen - look into it). That level is bound to have the most serious injuries. That level is also extremely highly compensated, is UNIONIZED, and has a pension plan that now reaches to even the lowest-paid athletes. Free health care is provided during the active career. Players very often insure their careers against serious injuries.

At the college level, although the athletes are out-and-out exploited, full rides to school are provided for between 40 and 100 players. The college game is played at a level substantially below the pros, so the incidence of severe, life-altering injury is lower.
The same comments apply to high school and Pop Warner levels. Can you get a concussion playing football as a teen? Sure. Are you likely to suffer life-altering injuries at that level? No, not very.

Not to mention that people are free to do as they please, and they sign lucrative contracts in order to do so. Their choices generate economic activity: an NFL game packs 60,000 fans in the seats and induces money to be spent on advertising.

...I guess the lions and Christians chose to be there as well?

It was a skilled profession, and much like sports in today's world, it was one of the few ways in a which a disadvantaged person - plebes and slaves in Roman times - could win fame and fortune. The ones who survived were celebrities, and some even bought their way into the aristocracy. I've heard it theorized that Pontius Pilate, whose family name translates as "skilled with the javelin" was the descendant of a gladiator who won his freedom that way.

I doubt the animals and the political prisoners - including Christians - chose to be there, although given a choice of being eaten by a lion or being crucified I'd opt for the quicker death myself.

http://ablemedia.com/ctcweb/consortium/gladiator2.html

six million people in desperate need of exercise.